Died Alone 2014-08-29

[KnightDelight]

I wonder how the DNA of the six mothers is represented in Katherine? Are there separate cells with separate DNA combinations in her body, or are they all blended into one DNA type throughout? More to the point, does she have a group of eggs which are divided into distinctly separate genetic bundles? If she was combined as opposed blended it may be that her eggs are still separate in their DNA structure. Some eggs from each of the 6 mothers. Given that her eyes have six distinct pupils, the combined theory seems more plausible than the blended theory. Might it be possible, at some future time with some Etheitian technology, to separate the six children into six individuals? It would mean the end of Kath as such, but it would also mean the actual "birth" of the last of the Etheitians/Anasazi. Kath, as a personality, might still exist in all of them after separation so Atsali and Pickle would still have the same mother, just maybe looking a bit different. From that point on, however, the others would go their separate ways and become the distinct individuals they were meant to be. Another thing. Does that mean Kath has six separate souls associated with her too? Again, not blended into one, sort of like Connie, but distinct souls working like a team of demons at the moment. That may be a job for JG to discern at some time.

[AnotherFairportfan]

I think that the six are present as souls, not as part of her physical makeup.

[lake_wrangler]

Given that her eyes have six distinct pupils

Does she really? I always assumed extremely large pupils... Wouldn't six separate pupils have drawn attention to her a long time ago?


I'm also wondering: if Lily became a vampire by dying alone and forgotten, is it not possible that the other five women would have become vampires, as well? They could still be hanging around... Just nowhere near where the rest of the crew is.

[Jabberwonky]

Bikini Hugs are always good.

When I wear a bikini, nobody wants to hug me...

[ActionKermit]

I always thought Kath had six specular reflections that show up in her eyes, but the eyes themselves are solid black.

[DilyV]

Given that her eyes have six distinct pupils

Does she really? I always assumed extremely large pupils... Wouldn't six separate pupils have drawn attention to her a long time ago?


I'm also wondering: if Lily became a vampire by dying alone and forgotten, is it not possible that the other five women would have become vampires, as well? They could still be hanging around... Just nowhere near where the rest of the crew is.

If any of the mythology of vampires is to ring true, Vampires don't like water with currents much... something about washing away the soul or something. Having heard the myth, I did a little research... Nothing solid, ranging from the simple statement of fact (vampires don't like running water), to the fact that running water is considered holy (since most biblical notaries were baptized in rivers). If this is the case then the other five who were dropped into the ocean and died of drowning could not have been raised as vampires... at least not by the premises of modern vampire lore; the ocean currents would have washed them away. Of course, Wapsi being Paul's creation, anything is possible.

I DO think it would be interesting to have that question answered though. How did Lily get dumped in a desert and the other five in the ocean? Why was lily the only one spared?

[Sidhekin]

I DO think it would be interesting to have that question answered though. How did Lily get dumped in a desert and the other five in the ocean? Why was lily the only one spared?

I do think you might find a reread interesting ...

It was the children that were dumped in the ocean. And not just the six women's children. All of the Etheitian babies. Newborn, unborn, all of them.

And: "All the pregnant women were dumped in the centers of the deserts of the world!" Not really clear to me if those are just the six, or if it's every pregnant woman among the Etheitians in stasis.

Lily may have been the only one of the dumped women to die alone. Or the only surviving vampire resulting from those dumped women who died alone. Who would know?

[KnightDelight]

Given that her eyes have six distinct pupils

Does she really? I always assumed extremely large pupils... Wouldn't six separate pupils have drawn attention to her a long time ago?

It would seem her eyes should have drawn a lot of attention to her regardless. They are quite striking no matter if pupils or reflections or whatever. Pretty much unique to all of mankind. While there have been double pupils, I don't think anyone has had eyes quite this unusual. Of course, the same for Tina. Oddly people in Wapsi Square never seem to have a problem with either. In the real world they would be famous for their eyes. Not to mention the talk of the office.

Anyway. multi-pupils or whatever, they still indicate a separation as opposed to a mix or blending which was my point.

On another point. Lily seems to be denying that Katherine is her daughter in any way. She seems to be saying all her children died long ago, period. Maybe she just doesn't want to come to grips with any other possible conclusion. Thing is, Kath is more closely related to Lily than just a descendant would be. Kath has some of her DNA (combined with her mate's) directly from her as opposed to some descendant whose DNA would have been mixed many, many times with others. If her pregnancy with the quads was her first, then Kath would also be her only living descendant. I suppose it's possible there could be others remotely related to Lily still around, however, if some of her ancestors mated with people outside the Etheitian population per se. Of course it also means she carries the DNA of 5 other Etheitians. So she is their "carriers" as well. Thing is, unless she has children of her own someday, she is also the end of the line for them as well, DNA-wise.

[Opus the Poet]

yeah, Lily needs some sort of regen, emotionally or otherwise.

Paging Medusa's Sister...(U-rail-ee?) Euryale

PS, Ninjas be expected...

Always. Expect. Ninjas

[GlytchMeister]

I wonder how the DNA of the six mothers is represented in Katherine? Are there separate cells with separate DNA combinations in her body, or are they all blended into one DNA type throughout? More to the point, does she have a group of eggs which are divided into distinctly separate genetic bundles? If she was combined as opposed blended it may be that her eggs are still separate in their DNA structure. Some eggs from each of the 6 mothers. Given that her eyes have six distinct pupils, the combined theory seems more plausible than the blended theory. Might it be possible, at some future time with some Etheitian technology, to separate the six children into six individuals? It would mean the end of Kath as such, but it would also mean the actual "birth" of the last of the Etheitians/Anasazi. Kath, as a personality, might still exist in all of them after separation so Atsali and Pickle would still have the same mother, just maybe looking a bit different. From that point on, however, the others would go their separate ways and become the distinct individuals they were meant to be. Another thing. Does that mean Kath has six separate souls associated with her too? Again, not blended into one, sort of like Connie, but distinct souls working like a team of demons at the moment. That may be a job for JG to discern at some time.

I may be wrong, it's been a while since I read this article, but I think all females are chimeras. Some of their cells have the X gene from the mother, while other cells got the X gene from the father.
I'd bet Katherine is a chimera as well, but taken to a higher level. Instead of chimerism of just one gene, it's 6 entire sets of DNA.
(It's a wonder all 6 sets had blood-types that agreed with each other, that's a helluva coincidence. I don't know what happened to Katherine's eyes. Real-life chimeras don't end up with two pupils.)
Anyway, if the different sets of DNA weren't blended, just mixed up like Legos, then it would be entirely possible to biopsy all six sets and clone them. All they would need is a coloring or radioactive marker that sticks to different gene sets to distinguish the cell origins. I don't think that would be too difficult, but I'm an engineering student, not a biologist. (Dammit, Jim! )
Katherine wouldn't have to die to separate the originals. As for whether tank-bred people have souls or not: I look at the brain like a computer, and the mind is just a really awesome software program.
I'm not sure how advanced the paranormal community's cloning tech is, but if they have quantum phones and can create Whatsits, It's probably advanced enough to pull off a successful human cloning.

[oldmanmickey]

No i went back and reread the whole sequence and it did say the souls were downloaded into the crystals. So no dna present from the mothers.

[Dave]

I may be wrong, it's been a while since I read this article, but I think all females are chimeras. Some of their cells have the X gene from the mother, while other cells got the X gene from the father.

Since most human cells are diploid, a woman's cells are XX - they contain both an X chromosome from her father, and an X chromosome from her mother. A man has an X from his mother and a Y from his father.

A woman's egg cells are monoploid - they'll have either a X from her mother or an X from her father, but not both. Similarly, a man's sperm cells have either an X (from his mother) or a Y (from his father) but not both.

If I recall correctly, a woman's two X chromosomes often have some genes selectively disabled (via epigenetic "tagging") and this is often different between the two... e.g. the X chromosome she inherited from her mother may have an active gene, while the corresponding gene on the X chromosome she inherited from her father may have been switched off via a tag.

A woman would be a full chimera (in the usual biological sense) only in the case where her body is formed from a fusion of two separately-fertilized egg cells. In this case, there could be significant variations between the chimeral cell clones on every chromosome, not just the two X chromosomes.

One variation I hadn't heard of until today, is blood chimerism, which can occur among fraternal twins. Most of each twin's cells are from their own fertilized-egg clone... but their blood is a mix of their two cell clones, due to a sharing of blood stem cells through the placenta. Their shared blood cell heritage can even be a mix of two different blood types (e.g. O and A, or A and AB, or etc.).

[Aed]

Lilly's daughter Katherine (Tinfoil Hat Edition)

Before we get too far into this bit of speculation, let's all get a common base on human genetics by watching a brief video from Veritasium, Why Women Are Stripey. All done? Then let's proceed, shall we?

We know that Etheitians (Anasazi) were channeled into crystals via stargates and the Akashic Records; one per crystal, with one important exception. Six pregnant women were carrying quadruplets. The system could only handle multiple births up to triplets so the fourth baby of each quadruplet was loaded into the same crystal. Those six babies became Katherine.

Beyond the use of stargates and the Akashic Records, Paul does not tell us anything more about the storage of people as energy (souls plus Akashic Record). We can speculate some, hence the tinfoil hats.

First let us consider some possibilities about the quadruplets. If identical quadruplets, then each baby had identical genetic material, gender but a different Akashic Record and soul. If fraternal quadruplets, then each baby may have different genetic material and gender as well as an Akashic Record and soul. Among six women the quadruplets may have been different combinations of fraternal and identical quadruplets, and both genders.

Now for some silly speculation. Since Katherine is a female, we may safely assume that she is composed of two sets of genetic information: one set from her mother and one set from her father. Since both the Akashic Record and the soul of an individual was used to store them into a crystal then both would be needed to produce a physical being. We have hints that Katherine has six souls combined into one person. We do not have any example of blending Akashic Records to produce one individual; if such a thing could happen the results would probably not be pretty. (Think Star Trek teleporter accident.) We may therefore guess that when multiple people are stored in the same crystal their souls are blended, but the Akashic Record of the last person entered overlays the Akashic Record of the preceding persons. If true, then Katherine is composed of the genetic makeup and gender derived from the last baby to be stored in the crystal and has that Akashic Record, but she also has all six souls blended into one. (Similar to the blending of Shelly's personal demons and Tina's soul to create Creepy Girl.)

If it is possible to blend Akashic Records, then all six babies would need to be female and Katherine would have twelve genetic strips instead of the usual two. (Remember the video, male chromosomes are not deactivated so there are no 'Y' chromosomes in the blend.) While not impossible, I suspect that the odds favor Katherine having two sets of genetic strips and one Akashic record as opposed to twelve sets of strips and a blended Akashic Record.

Depending upon Lilly's understanding of the crystals as storage for living beings she may realize that while Katherine's soul is a blend of her baby plus that of five others, there is only a one in six chance that Katherine is her genetic daughter. Such knowledge may make her soul wrenching statements much more understandable, but no less traumatic.

*Several edits for spelling and grammar

[shadowinthelight]

Lily may have been the only one of the dumped women to die alone. Or the only surviving vampire resulting from those dumped women who died alone. Who would know?

The simplest explanation for why Lily is the only vampire out of the six women is she was the last to die. She remembered the other five but there was no one left to remember her.

[sheik]

I may be wrong, it's been a while since I read this article, but I think all females are chimeras. Some of their cells have the X gene from the mother, while other cells got the X gene from the father.

Since most human cells are diploid, a woman's cells are XX - they contain both an X chromosome from her father, and an X chromosome from her mother. A man has an X from his mother and a Y from his father.

A woman's egg cells are monoploid - they'll have either a X from her mother or an X from her father, but not both. Similarly, a man's sperm cells have either an X (from his mother) or a Y (from his father) but not both.

If I recall correctly, a woman's two X chromosomes often have some genes selectively disabled (via epigenetic "tagging") and this is often different between the two... e.g. the X chromosome she inherited from her mother may have an active gene, while the corresponding gene on the X chromosome she inherited from her father may have been switched off via a tag.

A woman would be a full chimera (in the usual biological sense) only in the case where her body is formed from a fusion of two separately-fertilized egg cells. In this case, there could be significant variations between the chimeral cell clones on every chromosome, not just the two X chromosomes.

One variation I hadn't heard of until today, is blood chimerism, which can occur among fraternal twins. Most of each twin's cells are from their own fertilized-egg clone... but their blood is a mix of their two cell clones, due to a sharing of blood stem cells through the placenta. Their shared blood cell heritage can even be a mix of two different blood types (e.g. O and A, or A and AB, or etc.).

We're arguing in a vacuum here. We weren't given the details of the fusion.
Kathrine could just as easily be hexaploid, like wheat.
And that doesn't even begin to tap the potential of the para's hypertech possibilities.
We're talking about extraterrestrial influences (now more or less barred) that could have a biological and technical history in excess of 10 billion years, and even a thousandth of that would put the possibilities wayyyy beyond our imaginations.

[kingklash]

Me brain hurts!

[jwhouk]

I'll call Bellisario's Maxim on this one.

The Anasazi were using tech that makes our current understanding of DNA like third grade math to rocket science.

[oldmanmickey]

Lets not forget the 3 Laws of Arthur C. Clarke. They are:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

I think that pretty well covers this.

[TazManiac]

PS, Ninjas be expected...

Always. Expect. Ninjas

Yeah, see, this was the closest I ever got to being first ina thread;

it was only like 9-something o'clock, Thursday, on the West Coast,
I was just perusing the interwebz and
I happened across today's (Friday) strip.

Lo and behold no-one had created an entry yet, but but but by the time I had gotten the other system, the one I post with, up and running there where many ahead of me. oi.

Oh, and belated Thx to Mark for the help w/ Gorgon Phonics.

<edit> Oh, and I've always understood Kath's eyes to be symbolic but not mechanically representational; when looked at they are very large and dark, Yes,
but not really six separate pupils to the standard observer.

As for the hunch re: her DNA, I'm leaning towards a blended but 'standard' (as in a single pair of XX Chromosomes, etc).

Then again, I did see 'the Fifth Element'...

[My2Cents]

Now that Kathryn has a (biological) mother, I would like to meet some of her parents (the ones that raised her). There was a ton of speculation a while back about how she was raised after the capsule was found. Might be interesting if the 2 sides of her family could meet, under MIB supervision of course, and probably not with either side getting full details either.