Time To Think 2014-03-19

[Dave]

I was originally thinking ..."I have never seen an effective expression for Gobsmacked until now".

I think you have won today's "Sum it up best in a single sentence" award, with palms and a ribbon for valor.

[DilyV]

I can hear two things going through Jin's mind at the moment...

1. "Damn it... I just got MY sanity back and under control..."

2. "I'm really really getting too old for this shit..."

Atsali's remarks speak volumes to how she's matured... She's gone through "Awwwwww!!! You said a bad word!" to waxing philosophical about possibly having a hand in killing an entire race. It doesn't matter that it was an accident, it was her clumsiness that triggered the event and accident or not, she understands and accepts that SHE did it. Doesn't help with the remorse she feels for it though and she tries to assuage her guilt by telling herself that they're in a better place. That's an awful lot for a 15 year old to deal with... paranormal or not.

[jwhouk]

A point? I was under the impression that the Etheitians were dispersed through the portal network, and "collected" by the Library?

[txmystic]

Simpatico!

Sali appears quiet(sic) a bit more emotionally mature than she used to be...

I was just noticing that. She was so thoughtless when processing the reality of Tina's existence, but here seems to have gently pierced Jin's wall with much finesse.

BTW, has she seen Tina on the beach, yet?

[illiad]

I was originally thinking ..."I have never seen an effective expression for Gobsmacked until now".

I think you have won today's "Sum it up best in a single sentence" award, with palms and a ribbon for valor.

Nah, DilyV got it right... THIS is Gobsmacked... (last frame..)

checking back, Jin's expression must be similar to yours when you wake up from an illness and realise you missed TWO of the best world cup matches ever!!!(too late even for a repeat..)

[sheik]

I can hear two things going through Jin's mind at the moment...

1. "Damn it... I just got MY sanity back and under control..."

2. "I'm really really getting too old for this shit..."

Atsali's remarks speak volumes to how she's matured... She's gone through "Awwwwww!!! You said a bad word!" to waxing philosophical about possibly having a hand in killing an entire race. It doesn't matter that it was an accident, it was her clumsiness that triggered the event and accident or not, she understands and accepts that SHE did it. Doesn't help with the remorse she feels for it though and she tries to assuage her guilt by telling herself that they're in a better place. That's an awful lot for a 15 year old to deal with... paranormal or not.

I would add:
3. "_All_ of my people?"

[kingklash]

Now, Jin needs ask herself, "Should I get back in The Loop now, or calmly go back to my normal Human life?" Jin being Jin, there's no going back because this thread can't be left dangling.

Looks like someone needs a snakehug!

[zachariah]

A point? I was under the impression that the Etheitians were dispersed through the portal network, and "collected" by the Library?

They were all collected by the start gate system when Brandy declared an emergency during establishing the world grid. When Sali stuck here hand in the empty crystal slot she opened a pathway to the insane remnants of the Etheitians. They choose to use her as an escape path. Their souls escaped into death, and probably Charon's care. They did leave their knowledge behind in Sali's head. That is what the library collected from her. They also removed the data as well as it was overloading her and she could not handle it. So while she remembers the broad outlines almost all the details of the Etheitians are gone.

[zachariah]

Dave: Sali appears quiet a bit more emotionally mature than she used to be. But she is wrong about what is happened. Yes she did get the entire thing down loaded into her head. It was an accident she ended up with them and they took advantage of the accident to enter her head to escape. As the passed through her and escaped into death, at last released from confinement and insanity. Sali cannot blame herself for this. She did not cause it. She did not send them to death. They made the choice and used her to accomplish it. Sounds like Sali really does not understand what happened and why. So a mentor to help her see she did not do it and was instead a victim of the escaping, insane, souls.[/quote]

I don't think it's quite that simple and easy, on a couple of levels.

An intellectual understanding that "it was an accident" is very different from an emotional "being at peace" about a terrible trauma. Sometimes these two things seem to have almost nothing to do with one another. They must be achieved separately, through different processes... and achieving emotional peace often involves a process of grieving.

Zach: Terrible tramua to Sali really. She was used by the Ethietians as a pathway to escape without her consent. They almost electrocuted her. They left behind their entire civilization in her head almost causing a mental melt down that was only prevent by the library removing the data and erasing that from her mind. Yeah those were her fault alright. Anyone who ended up in that chamber and did that would have triggered the same result. While Sali did launch into this as a lark Kathy was headed there in the first place. Eventually she would have made it to the same place. Probably without all the excitement and action, but still gotten there. Then when Kathy explored the empty niche the same thing would have happened. It was not Sali's fault they died.

Dave: I'm not sure whether Atsali has yet had a chance to mourn for those who were saved/freed/lost/destroyed through her actions. If not, then she'll probably need to.

Zach: The etheitians chose to die. She sould pity them, feel sad, but blame herself. I think it is going to far. If anyone should feel guilty Brandy should be she can't because she didn't do it the NuGui did. If Brandy doesn't blame herself why should Sali?

Dave: Secondly... saying that it was "just an accident" may not get Atsali off of her own hook. The whole Big Adventure was full of examples of how Atsali tends to act impulsively, throwing herself into new situations without thinking out the possible consequences for herself and others. If she had acted just a bit more cautiously in the Mapimi cave, and not stuck her hand into an orifice where angels fear to tread, she wouldn't have gotten zapped by the Big Download at all... and there might have been another way of dealing with the trapped Ethetians which might even have saved a few by restoring them to life and sanity. Her own tendency towards impulsive, headlong actions was one of the prime triggers of all that occurred.

I suspect that Atsali will consider this possibility at some point, if it hasn't already occurred to her. What happened, happened at least in part due to her own choices, and so she is morally responsible to some extent for the Ethetians' demise. ("responsible" isn't the same thing as "guilty", of course)

Zach: I think Sali has taken responsibility for the thoughtless actions that she did on the adventure. But for their deaths? Not even some of the blame should fall on her. It is like a person builds an advertising billboard out of wood. Then uses it for 40 years and never does anything to maintain it. Someone comes along, leans against it and it falls over onto a parked car holding the guy who built it. Is it really the fault of the person who leaned? No the guy set all the details up himself and that person was only the trigger. Felling bad she was the trigger, yes that is reasonable. But trying to take all the blame isn't. The NuGui was the one who set it all up, left the empty slot, tricked the ethians into storage. Why should Sali try to shoulder that load.

So yes she does need some talking to, yes. Led to see that bad things happen that are truly not her fault, yes. Then she can put in it perspective and deal with it. Think "Dang I killed an entire civilization of ghosts in the machine", no. To me that is taking too much of the credit undeserved.

[scantrontb]

I'm curious... we KNOW that Brandi (probably while still under the control of the Nu Gui at the time) has flat out stated that she could PLAN to have a person skin themselves while still alive, the Nu Gui PLANNED for Kathy to be there (she knew that Kath was the six-baby-meld and still an Ethetian), it PLANNED for that socket to be empty, it PLANNED for her to investigate it by putting her hand in, it PLANNED the women to be ?decanted? in the middle of the deserts of the world and dying there, creating at least one vampire from the last person to die, (who survived to today and was assigned to "escort" Katherine to Mapimi, and would ALSO have died there with Katherine), it PLANNED the babies to go to the center of the oceans, it PLANNED the rest of the menfolk to get mentally blended together and to stay awake and aware the entire time inside the computer.... WHY do you keep saying it was an ACCIDENT??

i firmly believe that if The Library had NOT pulled a few strings OF IT'S OWN (and thus unknown to Brandi/the Nu Gui) in order to to hook up Atsali and Katherine, that Kath would have indeed talked to Phix like she said, gotten the info she needed and gone alone, gotten snagged by the Vampires at the spider crater/stargate place and gone on to Mapimi... and SHE would have been the victim, with her touching the trapped socket, and ended up trying to skin herself to get rid of the pain/mental anguish from all that computer and mental imprint data downloaded... all the while, ?McBride would be standing by flipping out, or, more likely as she is a true Ethetian that actually used computers like that, she'd be trying to reverse the process (assuming that she still remembered how to even operate one of those computers from that long ago) and failing, not because she may or may not be remembering it incorrectly, but because it was trapped code in the first place (as set up by the Nu Gui), and probably missing the various warnings about the self-destruct until it was too late (vamps can't teleport at all, as far as we know, right?)... then once ALL the Ethetians were dead in the most drawn out, painful way just about anybody could imagine (possibly satisfying her "revenge" clause in the deal her and Brandi made)... the Nu Gui would have been free and clear to do WHATEVER the heck she wanted to do!... and i highly doubt that it would involve peacefully just "going away" since she's not needed anymore... ha!

NOPE, that was NO ACCIDENT!... [scooby doo voice]and she would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for that danged kid![/scooby doo voice]

[Grantwhy]

I can hear two things going through Jin's mind at the moment...

2. "I'm really really getting too old for this shit..."

Jin's three days away from retirement and has bought a boat?

[Aleister Crow]

I was just noticing that. She was so thoughtless when processing the reality of Tina's existence, but here seems to have gently pierced Jin's wall with much finesse.

To be fair, Tina's power was going little haywire at the time due to one of her constituent demons taking the morning off, and influencing everyone rather badly. Monica wasn't acting much better.

[Grantwhy]

I was just noticing that. She was so thoughtless when processing the reality of Tina's existence, but here seems to have gently pierced Jin's wall with much finesse.

To be fair, Tina's power was going little haywire at the time due to one of her constituent demons taking the morning off, and influencing everyone rather badly. Monica wasn't acting much better.

And it is easier to react calmly if you know a surprise is coming.

Atsali was 'briefed'(?) on what to expect from talking to Aunt Jin.

Atsali: "Aunt Acacia knows you very well. She said that you would do or say something to push me away from you if I tried to get close to you."