How Silly Is That 2014-01-20

[KnightDelight]

I predict that about Wednesday Atsali is gonna go "Wait - She's WHAT?!?"

Actually, Atsali is giving Monica a WTF look right now.

It just seems like the demons would intellectually know what light is even if they can't normally process that part of the spectrum themselves. We know many things exist which we can't normally process. The demons aren't stupid or uneducated. I believe they even remember some of the psychology Tina 1.0 studied. They read books and manuals. Run the appliances, handle money, etc.

OTOH, maybe stars don't give off light. Perhaps light comes from some other source and it only seems like it comes from stars.

We'll see. Soon, it looks like. Neither Monica nor Atsali is likely to let that one slip by.

[zachariah]

[

Ninja'ed. Doesn't anyone sleep around here?

It's 5.30pm (ish) here - why would I be asleep

Agreed. It was 8 AM where I am. If I was asleep the boss would fire me. lol.

[zachariah]

Poor Tina is totally out of her normal range of experience. I should say that Tina's demons are out of their range of experience... experiencing an expanded range of experience... Definitely Tina 3.0... 2.9999 if the tentacle is still in the tub.

I just erased a whole paragraph because the complete and utter contradiction of what seems to be happening here has got my mind working in circles. The whole thing defies logic as we know it anyway...

1. Tina is killed in an automobile accident as a result of her demons conspiring with other demons and/or Jin as I understand it... That is true. Tina, Monica, and Shelly's demons were all part of that bit. Tina's demons were helping the others to block the doorway. They were also the reason Tina hit the bus to deflect it from truely fatal impact on Monica.

2. Tina's soul left her body, but couldn't get through the doorway because it was blocked so she was melded with Shelly's demon to become Conscience. --- Tina's soul did go through the doorway. That is why the demons were punished. Shelly's and Monica;s demons were not punished as their persons survived.

3. As a result of harming their host, Tina's demons were punished by removing their memories. Absolutely correct.

4. Tina's demons, at the behest of Nudge, reanimate Tina's body and get her up and moving from the morgue. Somehow, they track down Tina's place in Miami and find evidence that she's the daughter of a drug king pin. Somewhere along the line, she settles in Wapsi square and opens Mucho Mocha. -- It has been hinted at she was in the witness protection program until they thought she died. After that we don't know how she got to Wapsi. It is easy to suspect Nudge managed that part.

5. Somewhere along the line, Tina's demons gain a conscience and morals... though they have no memory other than they've been punished. -- They are in the process of gaining a conscience and morals. It doesn't happen quickly for them. Each step is marked by their actions and how they behave. At this state they are becoming even more. Expect the process to accelerate now.

6. At night, she's an empty shell (do we know where her demons go?) -- Like the 400 pound canary. Anywhere they want.

7. At Dawn, spiders crawl into her eye sockets, she wakes up and the spiders are burned to a crisp as Tina wakes up. -- Only seen that happen once. Never explained why it happened.

Okay, knowing all the above, We've been shown that Tina sleeps... so wouldn't it stand to reason her demons knows what sleep is? If I'm not mistaken, I can distinctly remember some of her demons trying to wake up another of her demons, to the point of singing "On top of old smokey..." -- No they didn't sleep until now. The singing was to get the other demons to cooperate in getting the body up and moving. Even demons can be lazy at times.

also, hasn't she perceived the cold, seen it snow? So it stands to reason that the demons have experienced things on a more human rather than quantum level. As someone else said, her broken arm for example. -- She has experienced them so she knows a lot about the body and its reactions by now. That doesn't mean they mean anything to her. We have never seen her dressed warmly once. So she may know cold but it may not bother her. Like it doesn't bother Bud. One point is that she knows pain but there is no hint she has ever know pleasure. As a coven of demons how could that aspect of human life have any meaning to her.

There is a huge discontinuity in Tina's ability to perceive, or things have gone really wonky for her. -- Of course things have gone wonky for her. At this point things like dreams are like an LSD trip to a human the first time. Until you learn to cope with altered reality how can you.

*throws up my hands and stomps off to confusion corner*

Dily: "Hi... My name is Dily. I'm Confused."

Confusion Corner inhabitants: "HI DILY!!!"

Hi Dily. Welcome to the 13 step program. Realize this program is not design to help you overcome your Wapsi addiction, it will merely help you to cope with it. With any luck you will be able to appear rational and sane around others when you have completed the program. Good luck.

[Aleister Crow]

I was right. Tina's never dreamed before, and it's freaking her out.

"That means time is flowing through the world. The body exacts its toll Susan. Soon my- my former colleagues, bewildered and fleeing, will become tired. They will have to sleep.'

'I follow you, but-'

'I am insane. I know this. But the first time it happened to me I found such horror that I cannot express it. Can you imagine what it is like? For an intellect a billion years old, in a body which is an ape on the back of a rat that grew out of a lizard? Can you imagine what comes out of the dark places, uncontrolled?'

'What are you telling me?'

'They will die in their dreams.' Susan thought about this. Millions and millions of years of thinking precise, logical thoughts - and then humanity's murky past drops all its terrors on you in one go.

-Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time

Maybe not quite so bad for Tina, but still one hell of a shock.

[shadowinthelight]

Fish just probably think, I see a bug. I'll go eat it.

Fish aren't capable of thoughts that complex. Their entire vocabulary consists only two words: "Food?" and "Yikes!"

I've waved my finger in front of enough fish tanks to know they also know "Huh?"

[as363]

Well - I was going to post something - but I think I'll just join DilyV in the confusion corner. How about I bring some fresh baked scones - a tub of Devonshire cream - and a fresh-perked pot of Jamaica Blue Mountain coffee ?

[Atomic]

Fish just probably think, I see a bug. I'll go eat it.

Fish aren't capable of thoughts that complex. Their entire vocabulary consists only two words: "Food?" and "Yikes!"

I've waved my finger in front of enough fish tanks to know they also know "Huh?"

Well, there are those creatures that think a bit too much...

[kingklash]

We see fish as swimming. Fish see themselves as flying.

Flying fish think they can achieve Hyperspace.

[jwhouk]

1. Tina is killed in an automobile accident as a result of her demons conspiring with other demons and/or Jin as I understand it...

Point of order: Jin knew nothing about it. It was all set up by Monica's demons, because of that "Queen Doubt" of Jin's. (I've been re-reading the archives. Trust me.)

2. Tina's soul left her body, but couldn't get through the doorway because it was blocked so she was melded with Shelly's demon to become Conscience.

Pablo's essentially confirmed this earlier this month. I got a cookie out of it.

3. As a result of harming their host, Tina's demons were punished by removing their memories.

4. Tina's demons, at the behest of Nudge, reanimate Tina's body and get her up and moving from the morgue. Somehow, they track down Tina's place in Miami and find evidence that she's the daughter of a drug king pin. Somewhere along the line, she settles in Wapsi Square and opens Mucho Mocha.

She found a lot of evidence - and that notebook in shorthand that has been conveniently forgotten about.

5. Somewhere along the line, Tina's demons gain a conscience and morals... though they have no memory other than they've been punished.

6. At night, she's an empty shell (do we know where her demons go?)

They probably go to the same place Monica's demons go: "Demonspace" (the place where Guidance spoke to Monica in the Georgette arc)

7. At Dawn, spiders crawl into her eye sockets, she wakes up and the spiders are burned to a crisp as Tina wakes up.

Well, not always. She does, on occasion, "sleep" - but it's more "lay very still in bed." Since Nudge made herself known to Monica, she apparently got to the point where she sleeps standing up. That may not be an all-the-time thing.

Okay, knowing all the above, We've been shown that Tina sleeps... so wouldn't it stand to reason her demons knows what sleep is? If I'm not mistaken, I can distinctly remember some of her demons trying to wake up another of her demons, to the point of singing "On top of old smokey..." also, hasn't she perceived the cold, seen it snow? So it stands to reason that the demons have experienced things on a more human rather than quantum level. As someone else said, her broken arm for example. Granted there is a part of Tina that experiences or can see Auras... and is capable of reading a person well enough to suggest what they would best have to drink for their morning beverage.

Actually, it was "On top of SPA-GHET-TIIIII..." And we may never know just how Tina figures out what a person wants for a "morning beverage".

There is a huge discontinuity in Tina's ability to perceive, or things have gone really wonky for her. Or our ability to perceive for that matter.

*throws up my hands and stomps off to confusion corner*

Dily: "Hi... My name is Dily. I'm Confused."

Confusion Corner inhabitants: "HI DILY!!!"

I'll be the first one to say Pablo sometimes needs to re-read his own archives. But then again, I've wondered if he's got this whole thing plotted out. (Not in Howard Tayler style, but more perhaps in Rich Burlew style.)

[Skruddgemire]

Ninja'ed. Doesn't anyone sleep around here? And again with that "stars give light" thing.

It may be that Demons "see" emotions and structures, but not the physical processes we perceive. Thus "Light" would be mysterious to them as would be hearing a smell.

We see fish as swimming. Fish see themselves as flying.

That's a good point. If we were to go with traditional Judeo-Christian mythos, the demon world existed long before there was light. Long before God popped up and said "Gee...I'm bored...I'm going to create a universe for shits and giggles.

Day One - "Let there be light!"

Or...if you're going with the multiverse theory, they existed in a different universe that may have different physical laws. A lack of photonic emissions being one possible difference.

In either case, an entity that exists in a lightless environment would not have a need to develop "eyes". In fact, some of M's demons don't have eyes at all. Monica's Vanity for example (if memory serves) only has holes in the "mask"...

...yet she "sees".

I'm wondering if the vision is a cross of Bia's intervention and the original Tina's memories.

[Tenjen]

they're perceptions probably dont chalk our visual sense of "light" as being light and our light is just one spectrum of energy/radiation being flung out by emitters.

We are beings based in and on the physical realm and the senses that go with. They are not.

[GuySmiley]

Then there is the possibility that Atsali has some counterweights at the bottom of the pack

When I was in school we used to call those "textbooks". And since everyone had to carry them I think you've got the whole counterweight thing the wrong way around. I distinctly remember falling backwards a few times when I had math and science homework on the same day.

[GlytchMeister]

Then there is the possibility that Atsali has some counterweights at the bottom of the pack

When I was in school we used to call those "textbooks". And since everyone had to carry them I think you've got the whole counterweight thing the wrong way around. I distinctly remember falling backwards a few times when I had math and science homework on the same day.

Being a Scout helps with that. Once you've figured out how to carry a week's worth of clothing and food and whatnot around, math and science textbooks aren't too bad. It's all a matter of balance. The books shift your center of gravity back, so you lean forward and never lock your knees and always keep a foot one step back.

[txmystic]

To sleep...perchance to dream...


So if this is her first experience with a dream, I cannot decide whether it is a natural evolution of her being, or if Bia has somehow started to manipulate her by using dreams (an unfamiliar experience to Tina) as a means of manipulation.

Also, as far as being able to "see" light, I think one if Tina's demons mentioned that stars give off radiation, but perhaps she does not perceive this radiation like normal humans, hence the confusion. After all, she can sense auras, so there's no telling what she "sees" every day.

I do find it ironic that she refers to Mon as "sunshine" when she seems to have no idea what "sunshine" is, apparently.

I'm off to confusion corner following the seductive aroma of Jamaica Blue Mountain...

[Opus the Poet]

OK I'm going way out on a limb with this, but perhaps what the demons call "light" is something to do with the intelligence of the hosts? We are constantly calling people "bright" and "dim" based on how smart they are in a situation, having people "see the light" when they figure something out, so maybe there is something that sees by how smart we are and we understand that on a subliminal basis.

I had to go read all the comments since this started just to make sure nobody else made the connection.

[Atomic]

It seems Pinnochitina is on her way to becoming a little girl! Well, not so little, but you get the idea.

[Leak]

Fish just probably think, I see a bug. I'll go eat it.

Fish aren't capable of thoughts that complex. Their entire vocabulary consists only two words: "Food?" and "Yikes!"

Nah, it's just that thinking gives most fish headaches...

[DilyV]

I'll be the first one to say Pablo sometimes needs to re-read his own archives. But then again, I've wondered if he's got this whole thing plotted out. (Not in Howard Tayler style, but more perhaps in Rich Burlew style.)

I was making a list of all the things we know about Tina... I suppose that it could be that though she is sleeping, her demons don't perceive it as such... Suffice it to say that a lot of us are eager to see this part of the story unfold. Tina has long been an enigma wrapped in a conundrum.

[illiad]

OK I'm going way out on a limb with this, but perhaps what the demons call "light" is something to do with the intelligence of the hosts? We are constantly calling people "bright" and "dim" based on how smart they are in a situation, having people "see the light" when they figure something out, so maybe there is something that sees by how smart we are and we understand that on a subliminal basis.

I had to go read all the comments since this started just to make sure nobody else made the connection.

ahh, now that makes sense... and Monica is a very sexy girl, full of sunshine - like when she came in one day after seeing her BF, even brighter than usual.. Tina said , oooh, I hope you didn't break your boy!!!!

[sheik]

I'll be the first one to say Pablo sometimes needs to re-read his own archives. But then again, I've wondered if he's got this whole thing plotted out. (Not in Howard Tayler style, but more perhaps in Rich Burlew style.)

I was making a list of all the things we know about Tina... I suppose that it could be that though she is sleeping, her demons don't perceive it as such... Suffice it to say that a lot of us are eager to see this part of the story unfold. Tina has long been an enigma wrapped in a conundrum.

I can think of two possibilities.
First, Bia imposed human-like characteristics on Tina in order to manipulate her.
The second is that in the process of reanimation, apparently with an active biology that needs pizza, Tina has now successfully re-developed her long-dead Central Nervous System and doesn't recognize the fact that without an original personality/soul to fill it, the collective is experiencing being human (including dreaming and sight) for the first time, and Bia is out to manipulate Tina in this tender state.