Like Heroes 2013-08-20

[KnightDelight]

Very cute. Love Shelly vision. What I don't get is this hero stuff. What have these two done to rate hero status? All we've seen is them becoming what they are. Nothing really heroic about that. Neither had a choice. Is this some sort of time warpy thing and they are heros among the paranormals for future events? That dangerous since they could read about that future as well.

Still, point taken by them both. Cassie's words have a lot of weight with them right now. Could be more Nudge staging though. "When you see Monica and Shelly you gush over them as being heros." Of course, if that were the case she would end it all up by turning back towards the open door and yell "Did I do that okay, Tanta Nudge?!"

[Dave]

Very cute. Love Shelly vision. What I don't get is this hero stuff. What have these two done to rate hero status? All we've seen is them becoming what they are. Nothing really heroic about that. Neither had a choice. Is this some sort of time warpy thing and they are heros among the paranormals for future events? That dangerous since they could read about that future as well.

Well, I'd say that saving the world as we know it, by shutting down the Calendar Machine, was rather heroic. If they had not done so, one could fairly claim that every mortal alive at the end of 2012 would have died (ceased to exist) when history rewound itself. Although similar people might have been born in previous (and subsequent) CM cycles, they would have somewhat-different histories and life stories... the people who exist, today, would be gone forever.

The quest to discover and shut down the Calendar Machine occurred well before Monica became immortal. It occurred before Shelly was 'ported into the Time Forest and had the opportunity to mature into a sphinx - it's an open question whether her sphinx and titan heritages were in play and whether she was any less mortal at that point than an ordinary human. In any case, neither Shelly nor Monica knew about these aspects of themselves or their futures... and yet they went ahead anyhow and did what needed to be done. Monica was afraid that she was being "set up" by the others (and she was!). Shelly was afraid that she was going to have to do something terrible (betray Monica's confidence, and stab her in the head with the key), and she was right. They both did what was necessary to save the world.

As far as Shelly and heroism goes... there's one aspect to Shelly's later actions which I personally feel was distinctly heroic. Shelly's 80,000-year "I thought I was in Hell" exile in the Time Forest occurred as a result of earlier events in Shelly's life... events which Shelly had the opportunity to influence from within the Time Forest, by telling Nudge to go make sure that they happened. Specifically, Shelly told Nudge to lure her into the wilderness during her vision quest, so that Shelly would very nearly die, and thus create Conscience (who then acted to protect Shelly in the Time Forest).

Shelly could have told Nudge something different. She could have told Nudge to intervene at a later time in Shelly's life (after the Calendar Machine incident) and tell Shelly "Don't pick up the artifact, whatever you do!". Shelly could probably have prevented her own hellish exile into the Time Forest, by manipulating her own past history in a different way ...

... and yet she did not do so. She accepted her exile, and chose to continue her quest for the Artifact (which we now know is a Vimana cell) ...

... in order to help cure Jin's growing insanity, and to protect the world from the risk that Jin would "snap" and incinerate the whole planet.

I'd argue that Shelly has acted selflessly and heroically, to save the whole world, twice. Both she and Monica had plenty of opportunities to choose to back away from what they were attempting... and they did not do so.

I'll direct you back to one of the great writers on the subject, Joseph Campbell. He's pointed the common elements to many of humanity's epic stories... an adventurer who travels outside the boundaries of the normal mortal world, in a quest to locate some sort of magical artifact to solve a great problem, who undergoes trials and growth, and finally returns to the moral world having learned more about him/herself in the process.

Campbell called this "The Hero's Journey".

I submit that both Monica and Shelly qualify... their whole exploration into the paranormal which led up to the discovery of the Calendar machine is this sort of journey.

Shelly's exile in the Time Forest is a second, and really beautiful example of this: a quest into the fearsome unknown, not for fame, or power, or wealth, but to bring back something which would heal a friend and save the world. It's such a wonderful tale that I just had to offer Pablo a commission to commemorate it.

[Yamara]

Very cute. Love Shelly vision. What I don't get is this hero stuff. What have these two done to rate hero status? All we've seen is them becoming what they are. Nothing really heroic about that. Neither had a choice. Is this some sort of time warpy thing and they are heros among the paranormals for future events? That dangerous since they could read about that future as well.

What Dave said, plus Monica's fetching the Portal Cloth from gunrunners in Egypt was another independent heroic act-- adventures usually happen by surprise, after all.

There is evidence that the Sage of the Forest was known to paranormals throughout her time in the Time Forest. The danger for paradox was massive during that time. But that's all in the past now. Shelly is out of do-overs, and omnipotence has consequences that cannot be taken back.

Still, point taken by them both. Cassie's words have a lot of weight with them right now. Could be more Nudge staging though. "When you see Monica and Shelly you gush over them as being heros." Of course, if that were the case she would end it all up by turning back towards the open door and yell "Did I do that okay, Tanta Nudge?!"

I don't see how it's possible that Castela would have to be goaded to gush about her own new adoptive mother's feelings. Especially since Katherine thinks the world of Monica. If Katherine has been calling them heroes in front of the kids, in their eyes, they are already gods.

[KnightDelight]

Very cute. Love Shelly vision. What I don't get is this hero stuff. What have these two done to rate hero status? All we've seen is them becoming what they are. Nothing really heroic about that. Neither had a choice. Is this some sort of time warpy thing and they are heros among the paranormals for future events? That dangerous since they could read about that future as well.

Well, I'd say that saving the world as we know it, by shutting down the Calendar Machine, was rather heroic. If they had not done so, one could fairly claim that every mortal alive at the end of 2012 would have died (ceased to exist) when history rewound itself. Although similar people might have been born in previous (and subsequent) CM cycles, they would have somewhat-different histories and life stories... the people who exist, today, would be gone forever. etc. ......

You're right, of course. How could I, of all people, forget that considering I made a video about it? I guess I was thinking more along the lines of since they became what they are and not what they did before as I should have.

Still, point taken by them both. Cassie's words have a lot of weight with them right now. Could be more Nudge staging though. "When you see Monica and Shelly you gush over them as being heros." Of course, if that were the case she would end it all up by turning back towards the open door and yell "Did I do that okay, Tanta Nudge?!"

I don't see how it's possible that Castela would have to be goaded to gush about her own new adoptive mother's feelings. Especially since Katherine thinks the world of Monica. If Katherine has been calling them heroes in front of the kids, in their eyes, they are already gods.

I was playing off earlier speculation that she was sent in, by Nudge, at just the right moment in Phix's chewing out session to drive home the points Phix was making.