Excuse Me 2015-05-28

[Opus the Poet]

There is simply no way for any character to "fix" the source of the problem in Atsali's lifetime (unless you consider "kill the entire world" to be a legitimate method of fixing things).

Well there goes "getting the band back together" as a possible solution to the problem. (The Chimera)

[illiad]

well if someone can teach her to 'morph' it would sure help...

[Julie]

I don't want him literally ground into a fine paste. Metaphorically, maybe. Because he isn't doing his job, which is to apply the rules consistently. If Atsali's suit is too revealing, probably over half the females in the pool need to be told to cover up or leave. More likely, there's a prudish busybody who needs to be told to SHUT up or leave.

This. Very much this.

It wouldn't surprise me much to see Austin, TX expelled from whatever it's included in either.

As a Texan, I disagree. I like Austin. It adds diversity to my increasingly far right state. I would kick up a serious fuss if anyone tried to boot our capital.

[Catawampus]

A note about why Jin is insisting on a daring-ish swimsuit for Atasli to challenge the rule: It's the opressor who shapes the protest. The bully want's your lunch money? Deny him. Don't want you in the Library? Go to the library. Not allowed to dance? Dance anyway. Your physique is not to our liking? Here -- see some more (but no more than anybody else in here)!

She/Jin is not challenging the dress code -- they're attacking the drone "enforcing" the rules. That's what's going on.

If Atsali came back wearing a suit with lots of coverage again and the pool managers were forced to back down, then they'd be graciously allowing her to attend the pool so long as she stuck to much stricter standards than most everybody else. By wearing a suit that's no different from that which many of the other people at the pool are readily allowed to wear, then she's winning the right to wear whatever she wants. She could go back to wearing a more supportive outfit if she wanted to. . .or she could wear a Jin Special. She ends up being held to the same standards as everyone else, instead of to special "sexy girl" standards.

An analogy: suppose a black guy went to eat at a restaurant with his friend, a white cop. He's asked to leave the restaurant because some of the workers and patrons are uneasy having a black guy in the place, since they view him as a dangerous thug simply because of his skin colour. He goes back again later with his police friend a second time, and again is confronted. This time he points out that he's in the company of a law enforcement officer, who will keep him from acting illegally. The management of the restaurant decides to allow black people to dine at their establishment, so long as they're escorted at all times by the police to keep them under control.

That's not really a great win for the black guy. He's accepting the whole racist image of black people and the double-standards that go with it.

What if he shows up alone the second time, though? Then if he is hassled again, he could point out how he is there in the exact same situation as plenty of other non-black diners, and that the only difference is his skin colour. He'd be able to force the issue of racism out into the open and confront it and perhaps win the right to be treated as just another human being rather than as a black person. Then he could be free to go to the restaurant with his cop friend if he wanted to, or by himself, or with other black people, or whatever. Instead of accepting that it was his fault that he was black and offering to take steps to ameliorate that fact, he'd be making the other people acknowledge that they were the ones who have a problem.

By wearing a skimpier yet still normal bikini, Atsali is doing something similar. Rather than saying, "yes, my body is a shameful thing and I will take extra precautions to pander to your double-standards and be certain not to offend everybody with how I look", she's saying, "I am the way that I naturally am, and that's fine. It's your problem if you can't see me as something other than a sex object".

Well there goes "getting the band back together" as a possible solution to the problem. (The Chimera)

Though I do wonder if the chimera would be quite so much of a raging beast now that the nu gui is out of the mix. The nu gui was basically an elemental of hatred and revenge, after all, and couldn't have been a positive influence.

[TazManiac]

I can't speak so much to other portions of the country, but if those were independent nations I suspect that the Left Coast would probably have a vote on separating Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco into a separate country of their own... and I don't know if it would pass in those metropolitan areas, but it would easily get a majority everywhere else.

As a Portland-Metro resident, I say, "Yes, please!" I would be more than content to be part of a successful secession.

And after Seattle/Portland/SF were excised, We'd all laugh merrily at the rest of the region trying to pay for services after over half the tax base was suddenly gone.

And don't forget; Drinking Water...

[Sgt. Howard]

I can't speak so much to other portions of the country, but if those were independent nations I suspect that the Left Coast would probably have a vote on separating Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco into a separate country of their own... and I don't know if it would pass in those metropolitan areas, but it would easily get a majority everywhere else.

As a Portland-Metro resident, I say, "Yes, please!" I would be more than content to be part of a successful secession.

And after Seattle/Portland/SF were excised, We'd all laugh merrily at the rest of the region trying to pay for services after over half the tax base was suddenly gone.

And don't forget; Drinking Water...

... and electricity, fruits and veggies, rice (California), beef, pork, eggs & chicken... they would have to earn the right to such commerce instead of auromatically holding a corner on it.

[Thor]

As a Portland-Metro resident, I say, "Yes, please!" I would be more than content to be part of a successful secession.

And after Seattle/Portland/SF were excised, We'd all laugh merrily at the rest of the region trying to pay for services after over half the tax base was suddenly gone.

And don't forget; Drinking Water...

... and electricity, fruits and veggies, rice (California), beef, pork, eggs & chicken... they would have to earn the right to such commerce instead of auromatically holding a corner on it.

That's the nice thing about big cities. They generate the revenue to pay for the clean water, power, and food that they require. All the while also generating the revenue to pay for the infrastructure and government services (public safety, health, education, courts, sanitation, etc.) that separate us from the animals. Rural populations are spread thinner over a much greater area, so they can't do the same, or at best cannot provide the same level of services.

Which is why big cities of today would be more than willing to be independent entities. We might have to start paying for goods, water, and power, but we more than make up for that by not having to pay for the upkeep of civilization outside the city boundaries.

[oldmanmickey]

And if yall promise to keep all them nice people and the drive bys and such in those big cities we would be happy to see you gone.

[Thor]

And if yall promise to keep all them nice people and the drive bys and such in those big cities we would be happy to see you gone.

With the extra money in the coffers from not supporting the rural areas, we'd have lots left over for better schools, more law enforcement, and expanded social services, so that "them nice people" would be a whole lot less numerous and easier to both take care of and "take care of".

[AnotherFairportfan]

Uhhh ... Guys - could we not start political arguments?

[lake_wrangler]

Uhhh ... Guys - could we not start political arguments?

At this point, is it really a political argument? I see here a fanciful discussion about some cities seceding from their respective States, something which is highly unlikely to ever happen (if not impossible, I don't know about the technicalities...), so it's just play fun, as far as I'm concerned...

To me, political arguments have more to do with discussing stuff that is indeed feasible within the realm of the current political climate and environment, and trying to convince other parties of the well-foundedness of one's position/favorite policy. I don't think that's what's happening here.

(My 2cp...)

[JosephBrown]

*SPAM*

[TazManiac]

Eh, maybe not so much. I'm w/ Lake Wrangler on this one; but there is a point taken where stuff can thread so far off the rails as to get into sticky forum territory. We're a pretty good bunch about self-regulating and acceptance, even agreeing to disagree.

I think we'll be OK...

[Warrl]

In most of the proposals I've heard of for separating a city from a state, the idea seems to be more popular in the rest of the state than in the city in question.

And most (but not all) of the cities in question are state capitals.

There will be no further comments on the subject from me.