Side By Side 2014-08-21

[TheDOCTOR]

Werewolves are artists and writers eh? Something you would like to share with the class....PAUL!?
'Duhn-Duhn-DAAAAH!'

[TheDOCTOR]

... and all this time I thought that monkeys were the writers.

Anyone catch the name on that script? It cut off too fast.

[Aleister Crow]

Artists? Werewolves?

I suspected that vampires would find a place in the legal profession, but I thought that they might be attornies or IRS auditors. Who knew!?

Weresharks.

... and all this time I thought that monkeys were the writers.

Anyone catch the name on that script? It cut off too fast.

THE CALVIN WORKSHOP
presents

... and then a bunch of random characters.

[eee]

OK, as noted, it makes a great deal of sense, given how they apparently come about, that most vampires would become the protectors of the forgotten and marginal. But I don't get why werewolves would be artists and writers. More in touch with their primitive side? Able to understand transitions, and different points of view, because they routinely become 'other' ? Unkillable except via silver bullet (and, to judge from history, self inflicted alcohol poisoning) and so able to handle deadlines and all-nighters? I don't really get it...

Now wait just a cotton pickin' minute. Phix, who has been around quite a while, considered Vampires and Werewolves to be scum. Low-life beings to be exterminated on sight. Then there was that whole thing with Justin and his former werewolf sadist GF. How would Phix not know about all the good works of those groups? The story was that it took two vampires (who she nearly killed) to show her the good side of the blood suckers, yet Guidance indicates they have been doing those good things for a long time. Seems like Phix would have known that and quit considering them vermin long before Pratt and McBride came on the scene. Don't get me wrong, I like this direction concerning the two groups. A welcome departure from the "waring clans" crap that has been so popular in movies and TV of late, but I smell a significant reboot where those characters are concerned. Either that or Jet's demons know not of what they speak.

Phix is a protector of humans, so the feeling for any human predator is natural. And compared to demons it is like swatting mosquitoes for her. Her feelings were also developed in the distant past, before she was attached to the library, and she probably hasn’t experienced the changes (reading about them doesn’t count!).

<snip>

I suspect that is a general attitude among sphinxes. Phix appears to be a free thinker, with beliefs different than your average Sphinx; and yet, she probably still has a lot of the normal prejudices and hatreds of her kind. And until those are challenged, she follows them. In this case, it was Monica's self-sacrifice to protect Pratt and McBride, and their help to solve Brandy's problem, that made Phix change her mind.

Aside from Shelly, we've only gotten a momentary look at another Sphinx, and that was not pleasing. I further suspect if we saw more Sphinxes we would not like them and their attitudes AT ALL, and might regard them as villains.

[Dave]

OK, as noted, it makes a great deal of sense, given how they apparently come about, that most vampires would become the protectors of the forgotten and marginal. But I don't get why werewolves would be artists and writers. More in touch with their primitive side? Able to understand transitions, and different points of view, because they routinely become 'other' ? Unkillable except via silver bullet (and, to judge from history, self inflicted alcohol poisoning) and so able to handle deadlines and all-nighters? I don't really get it.

We don't know very much at all about Wapsiverse werewolves. Paul gave us a very interesting twist on vampire mythology... his vision of werewolves may be similarly less-than-conventional and could explain their artistic leanings. We just need to wait for their Wapsiverse backstory to be told.

I suspect that is a general attitude among sphinxes. Phix appears to be a free thinker, with beliefs different than your average Sphinx; and yet, she probably still has a lot of the normal prejudices and hatreds of her kind. And until those are challenged, she follows them. In this case, it was Monica's self-sacrifice to protect Pratt and McBride, and their help to solve Brandy's problem, that made Phix change her mind.

Aside from Shelly, we've only gotten a momentary look at another Sphinx, and that was not pleasing. I further suspect if we saw more Sphinxes we would not like them and their attitudes AT ALL, and might regard them as villains.

I wonder whether the sphinxes might be a bit like the classic image of the Japanese samurai. We've already seen that sphinx culture is violent, status- and pecking-order-conscious, watch-your-back or get-what-you-deserve... not unlike the behavior of the ruling-and-dueling bushi clans and cliques during some periods in Japan (15th and 16th centuries?). Power struggles, assassinations, alliances and treacheries... society as an armed camp, where "peace" amounted to a tense standoff between competitors. I don't think that they ever decided to actually consume the loser for lunch, but you never know...

During some eras, social mobility in Japan was largely frozen... if you were born a peasant you lived as one. No one not born to a samurai family could become a samurai. The ruling-clan bushi were the apex predators of their society. Pity any commoner who didn't immediately show proper respect to a samurai... the samurai had the right to immediately execute a peasant for this (apparently it's open to question how often this actually occurred, but the risk of sudden death for "back-talk to a cop" was apparently quite real, and legal).

The sphinxes' attitudes towards vampires and werewolves might be a bit like the attitude of ruling samurai towards peasant rice farmers... they are weak, and therefore inferior, and therefore we despise them and name them as less than dirt, and thus assert our own superiority.

[GlytchMeister]

Does anyone get the feeling Georgette's "Demons" are more atypical than "able to physically appear?"
...
Monica's Demons share certain characteristics: they embody negative aspects of the human condition - anger, doubt, lust, panic, etc.
Also, each of these aspects come from within - the best I can describe it is they are tied more to an internal locus of control.

Yet Guidance is, by and large, a positive thing. People appreciate receiving guidance. Oh, and then there's the whole "people recieve guidance" thing. It's external.

Unless I'm woefully mistaken, in which case I'll go back to Confusion Corner and have a King's Hawaiian Bun.

[KnightDelight]

I'd also go for the time element, but for a different reason... up until the CM got destroyed by our gang, Phix has been essentially locked up in solitary confinement for the last 80K+ years in the Library, yes she had time off to try and find Nudge (and get it on with Shelly's G'Pa) but for the most part she ignored everything else because she REALLY wanted to get Nudge... SOOOO... she probably missed the fact that Vamps have reformed from their alleged former ways. as for the Were population, why would she know about that just from being in the Library? did any of those poets sign there works with "Oh, Hey, I'm a Werewolf!!"... no, therefore she wouldn't know that they were a Were at all just because of her being the Librarian. as for Justin's EX... if i remember correctly, Hitler was supposed to have been a Vegetarian, and treated his wife very well... that didn't stop him from causing the Holocaust though... so your argument is invalid, just because she was a Were, doesn't mean she couldn't be um, a bit kinky in the bedroom as an Artist. and of course both of those Demons used the key words "MOST" and "TEND" that means that it is not "ALL" of them... and like Justin and Shelly said, he was hanging with the fringe crowd, by definition, they are the oddball outliers of the group statistics.

But ... Phix has been deeply involved with the MIB for quite some time. That involvement would have kept her up to date on the werewolf and vampire community and their involvement with law and the arts and generally good nature. This would have ameliorated her "kill first and never ask questions" stance on vampires in general. It would have kept her from simply killing one on sight as they might be with law enforcement and not just some vampire scum who wandered in to the Library. Remember Sphinxes are sticklers for the law and the rules. I'm pretty sure the rule on vampires was not to kill them just because you can. This despite any long held prejudices of your own. Besides the MIB, she was well aware of the goings on in the paranormal community at large as evidenced by her attitude towards Shelly and Monica and their antics as it related to that community, paranormal and human. Sorry, but it doesn't make sense in the context of the story in the past.

I bring up the Justin-werewolf GF incident as it reinforced the reprobate nature of werewolves in general that Paul was presenting at the time. As you say, however, it was also presented as her being part of a fringe group so it's probably not the best example. The fact Suzi was shown eating a perp didn't help to dispel that notion either. We found out later that Lily, at any rate, didn't truck that sort of activity for a second, but that was just one vamp who didn't. Suzi, except for the mgt. repercussions, didn't have a problem with it. In fact, Lily didn't have a problem with it for the vast majority of her existence. Who knows what changed her outlook. Anyway, though the better behavior of the werewolf and vampire communities might be relatively recent, that's no reason Phix would not have known of it. Now, it would seem, the bad vamps and wolves are very much the exception and not the rule. To me that is a radical story shift.

[Warrl]

[quote="Dave"Paul gave us a very interesting twist on vampire mythology... [/quote]

Twisting mythology can be fun

[analyst]

And the attitudes of the apex predator to those lower on the food chain may be taken with a grain of salt.

I don't think Phix uses salt. She eats her prey as is.

MMMM. Vampire tartare.

[Platonix]

Disregarding everything else about how much sense it makes for vampires to wind up in law enforcement, it also makes perfect sense that a species seen as bugs to be smashed would wind up among the most law-abiding of paranormals. Acting out of line draws attention to you, so those for whom attention is fatal learn to stay within the lines. Makes me wonder how much farther up the totem pole werewolves are from vampires, if they're similarly well-behaved as a group.

[Dipti]

Law abiding does not mean = good. While there might have been a shift in certain Paranormal populations to more Civilized beliefs and certain ones may have been good to begin with but the main reason their law abiding is one thing FEAR. We are the apex predator on the planet we are xenophobic mistrusting an respond to fear with anger and hate. The human race out numbers the paranormal community considerably their is not contest to it they have millions we billions.Suddenly we find out that the things we have feared for centuries (until relatively recently) were real? It could lead to decades of conflict and a century or more to get rid of the fanatic groups that would pop up assuming peace happens. As for any naysayers to this post remember that the Paranormal Community actively teaches their children to hide and blend in with us, they have and entire organization dedicated to keeping themselves hidden and if i remember right they have laws about concerning individuals breaking secrecy in public spaces.

[Dipti]

Didn't think this fit in with my last post so hear it goes .

The reason i think were the apex predator and why the Paranormal Community fears us is this: Centaurs, Harpies, Vampires or Werewolf's it doesn't matter all of them an more have outstanding physical or magical abilities which they relied on to much, far to much and just got left behind by us. For We find out what makes things tick and then how to make the ticking stop.

[Mark N]

Now wait just a cotton pickin' minute. Phix, who has been around quite a while, considered Vampires and Werewolves to be scum. Low-life beings to be exterminated on sight. Then there was that whole thing with Justin and his former werewolf sadist GF. How would Phix not know about all the good works of those groups? The story was that it took two vampires (who she nearly killed) to show her the good side of the blood suckers, yet Guidance indicates they have been doing those good things for a long time. Seems like Phix would have known that and quit considering them vermin long before Pratt and McBride came on the scene. Don't get me wrong, I like this direction concerning the two groups. A welcome departure from the "waring clans" crap that has been so popular in movies and TV of late, but I smell a significant reboot where those characters are concerned. Either that or Jet's demons know not of what they speak.

Then you have not met any people that are generally nice and sensible that still harbor old racial hatreds. It is not that they are stupid and racist, it is that they were indoctrinated at a very early age and do not actually notice the programing. Phix has know of vampires like she has known demons. Both in her mind were always crap, but when called to task she was forced to notice her prejudice and correct it.

[Elvis]

Does anyone get the feeling Georgette's "Demons" are more atypical than "able to physically appear?"
...
Monica's Demons share certain characteristics: they embody negative aspects of the human condition - anger, doubt, lust, panic, etc.
Also, each of these aspects come from within - the best I can describe it is they are tied more to an internal locus of control.

Yet Guidance is, by and large, a positive thing. People appreciate receiving guidance. [...]

Perhaps Monica had just bad luck with her demons and normally you have a mix of "good" and "bad" demons?

Perhaps you gather your demons when something very emotional happens to you (and monica had quite a few bad things happen to her in her youth)

Perhaps everybody has the same kind and selection of demons as monica, but georgettes got so f**ked over by the tar, that they either do not remember their names or they decided that they need new names. (and both of those would make her at least as strange for the rest of the paranormal world as tina)

[Elvis]

[...]
I suspect that is a general attitude among sphinxes. Phix appears to be a free thinker, with beliefs different than your average Sphinx; and yet, she probably still has a lot of the normal prejudices and hatreds of her kind. And until those are challenged, she follows them. In this case, it was Monica's self-sacrifice to protect Pratt and McBride, and their help to solve Brandy's problem, that made Phix change her mind.

Aside from Shelly, we've only gotten a momentary look at another Sphinx, and that was not pleasing. I further suspect if we saw more Sphinxes we would not like them and their attitudes AT ALL, and might regard them as villains.

What other sphinx have we seen and when? I can not remember in the moment.

And Phix may have been a progressive thinker in the old times, but do we know how their society did change? perhaps phix is now seen as a hopeless conservative teabagger that dreams of the good old times (3000+ years ago)? -> Blue and Orange Morality?

[Dave]

What other sphinx have we seen and when? I can not remember in the moment.

Medeia. Also know as "Ribs".

Not exactly a sympathetic character... Nudge didn't care for her very much.

[scantrontb]

But ... Phix has been deeply involved with the MIB for quite some time. That involvement would have kept her up to date on the werewolf and vampire community and their involvement with law and the arts and generally good nature. This would have ameliorated her "kill first and never ask questions" stance on vampires in general. It would have kept her from simply killing one on sight as they might be with law enforcement and not just some vampire scum who wandered in to the Library. Remember Sphinxes are sticklers for the law and the rules. I'm pretty sure the rule on vampires was not to kill them just because you can. This despite any long held prejudices of your own. Besides the MIB, she was well aware of the goings on in the paranormal community at large as evidenced by her attitude towards Shelly and Monica and their antics as it related to that community, paranormal and human. Sorry, but it doesn't make sense in the context of the story in the past.
{snippage}
Anyway, though the better behavior of the werewolf and vampire communities might be relatively recent, that's no reason Phix would not have known of it. Now, it would seem, the bad vamps and wolves are very much the exception and not the rule. To me that is a radical story shift.

UM... Phix? are you sure? i don't remember her being involved in the MIB at all... i remember Brandi, Bud and Jin starting it, Tsillah being involved enough to be able to give out assignments to field agents, and the hiring of those same agents (ie. Katherine), but i don't recall it ever being said that PHIX was in the MIB, or really having any dealings with the same... if you are talking about her "checking the legalities" of Tina's status, personally i think that was more of a Sphinx-Law type of background check not a MIB thing... basically to see IF the issue with Tina was enough of a threat to finish it via her execution or if she get's a pass... she would have carried it out if required to, but because she "likes" what Tina is evolving towards and in order to NOT HAVE TO follow thru with it (just in case) she is dragging her heels in the Sphinx paperwork department by "researching" things, until Tina dies of natural causes (hopefully a LOOONNNGGG time in the future), then she can say, "oops, sorry i took too long doing the research, oh well, no biggie now" that way if anyone else like (the now Late:) Medea were to complain, she can truthfully say that she hadn't performed the execution yet because of pending research... and since it seems like their society is a strictly once-it's-assigned-to-YOU-you're-stuck-with-it type of society, the powers-that-be above her on the chain of command wouldn't re-assign a case file until the sphinx was killed off somehow, or it was grossly mismanaged by the originally assigned person, therefore Tina is safe... but it if wasn't that, that you were talking about, then i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, no biggie.

again, just because she's aware of SOME stuff from the community, doesn't mean she knows it ALL...

[Wapsi]

Now wait just a cotton pickin' minute. Phix, who has been around quite a while, considered Vampires and Werewolves to be scum. Low-life beings to be exterminated on sight. Then there was that whole thing with Justin and his former werewolf sadist GF. How would Phix not know about all the good works of those groups? The story was that it took two vampires (who she nearly killed) to show her the good side of the blood suckers, yet Guidance indicates they have been doing those good things for a long time. Seems like Phix would have known that and quit considering them vermin long before Pratt and McBride came on the scene. Don't get me wrong, I like this direction concerning the two groups. A welcome departure from the "waring clans" crap that has been so popular in movies and TV of late, but I smell a significant reboot where those characters are concerned. Either that or Jet's demons know not of what they speak.

Then you have not met any people that are generally nice and sensible that still harbor old racial hatreds. It is not that they are stupid and racist, it is that they were indoctrinated at a very early age and do not actually notice the programing. Phix has know of vampires like she has known demons. Both in her mind were always crap, but when called to task she was forced to notice her prejudice and correct it.

This!

[jwhouk]

I'm thinking this proves that Stephenie Meyer is really a werewolf.

[TazManiac]

Werewolves as artists WOULD explain some of James Brown's lyrics.

"Smotha'd Snake!"