Connection 2013-09-12

[Opus the Poet]

Other people have mentioned it already, but put me in the boat of people that find this particular episode "disturbing" on several levels. Many of those levels are so deep inside that I lack the vocabulary to express anything more profound about them other than "That's Bad!"

[AmriloJim]

I have gone out on a limb. Feel free to saw it off. lol.

Going with third tier protocol... that's where the limb remains and the cliff falls away, right?

[Dave]

I have gone out on a limb. Feel free to saw it off. lol.

Going with third tier protocol... that's where the limb remains and the cliff falls away, right?

Yeah, we've seen that trick played on too many 'toons to fall for it here, zachariah!

[Yamara]

Reminds me of John W. Campbell's essay "Tribesman, Barbarian, And Citizen" that I read many years ago now.

Yep. Me, too. I almost mentioned it.

Oh wow. I did not know that. Thanks.

http://forums.theonering.com/viewtopic.php?p=3311700

My thoughts have been forming on civilization and its absence lately; I was thinking more of a dichotomy. Campbell's right in that cultures tend to see themselves as the best and most moral-- barbarians will defend barbarity-- but it's clear in reading the essay that his ideal categories are almost darlingly quaint, because we actually know more than we did in the mid-20th Century. Celts and Vikings had slave trades. Tribal nations participated in vast market networks and even intertribal democracy. He's very right that we should watch out for our own hubris in thinking our civilization is best. --But unlike many of our predecessors, we are armored with that caution, too.

I think that the same attitudes should apply no matter what the medium is...meaning that just because this is a fantasy comic and M appears to (maybe) be giving in towards the last panel, or because it's "hot girl-on-girl action" (whatever the motivation may be), that shouldn't change our understanding of consent. This should still be viewed as ridiculous, uncomfortable, or offensive...just as it would if the characters or medium were different.

Hear, hear.


I tend to trust Paul after the scene with Shelly's "catastrophizing", but no one is under any obligation to trust, let alone thank, any artist.

Love is reciprocity; and coercion is seizing dominance without consent. Both are stated to be in play here. Yet I'm distracted by the cost of bringing this kind of real world violence into the narrative, and whether it will be worth the price to watch magical powers, or even some more common force of will, bring the coercion to an end. The resonance with how these things go in reality will abide.


Well. Babies have been split in half before.

[ChattaStarhawk]

Gang, I'm wondering if the Monica in 'Jet's arms is anything more than a phantom that 'Jet has created. I'd say JG Monica is in panels two and three and she's seeing the action in panels four and five from the outside rather than directly experiencing (mentally) as we saw earlier this week. (Oh, Jet... fantasize much? Methinks you're getting in a rut.)

[DilyV]

I'm sure that these last few strips aren't gratuitous... I'm pretty positive Paul is using it as means to an end... to set up a message... a narrative of sorts... to tell yet another part of the story. I spent my time in the army analyzing people and situations. It's hard to analyze the comics because you have to rely on what you see written and spoken by the characters on the page. In real life, exposed to the people in real life, listening to the inflection and emotions in their voices, watching the body language in motion, not freeze framed as in the comic, I would be better able to read the situation.

That being said... We really don't know what, or who is driving these visions/dreams. It very well could be Jet... but what if it isn't? What if it's Monica's repressed sub-conscious asserting itself, keyed by Jet's affinity for Monica? Both afraid to admit their feelings. Monica wasn't as upset about Jet's kiss as she was about poiting into something she thought was an emergency and smack dab into someone's emotional whirlpool. Reread that strip... Honestly, the kiss took a back seat to everything else. I'm not saying Monica has a proclivity for girls, I'm just saying that the possibility is there that it might be something about these two that is keyed to one another and whenever they get close enough to each other it activates and embarrassment ensues. Unless they come to grips with it, any time they come together we're going to have these episodes.

I don't rightly think that it's going to be a quick reveal either. We're witnessing the basis of the next thread in this story... the rollercoaster is just pulling away from the platform and is beginning to climb the first hill... In the immortal words of Cleetus (Jerry Reed, Smoky and the Bandit), "Hold on to your ass Fred!"

EDIT: I always re-read my posts before and after I post them... seeing them in post on the forum tends to jar my thoughts in other directions... There is something that has changed... I'm not sure if it's Monica now that she's full Jaguar Girl, or if it is Jet. I'm leaning towards it being that as the Jaguar Girl, Monica's ability is look into a person and see their worst fear has been drastically amped up... to the point where Monica's mere presence is enough to engage these waking dreams (fantasies?) in those who have a deep emotional attachment to Monica... which drags the fears out and into these visions. Jet's embarrassed look after that first kiss makes a lot more sense now... She wasn't embarrassed that she had feelings for Monica... she was embarrassed because it had been ripped from her fantasy and publically displayed out in the open and beyond her control. I think that it's not Monica driving these visions, but her Jaguar Girl abilities, which Monica hasn't really had time to totally catalog. Both Jet AND Monica have a lot to come clean about to each other...

*fills the pun jar with scented bath soap and towels and sets them next to the shower*

[shadowinthelight]

I'm sure that these last few strips aren't gratuitous... I'm pretty positive Paul is using it as means to an end...

I'm guessing it's a little from column A, a little from column B. It would not be impossible to tell a similar tale without getting so steamy. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with the story indulging in a little naughty fun as long as it doesn't become completely gratuitous.

[Timotheus]

I'm seriously considering taking my new Spice and Wolf book and finding a comfy corner in the confusion corner to read it and a few back volumes before going back and rereading the last six months plus whatever time has passed to see if makes a more cohesive bundle.

It's getting too hard to focus on the nonlinear evolution of so many plot elements.

[Dave]

EDIT: I always re-read my posts before and after I post them... seeing them in post on the forum tends to jar my thoughts in other directions... There is something that has changed... I'm not sure if it's Monica now that she's full Jaguar Girl, or if it is Jet. I'm leaning towards it being that as the Jaguar Girl, Monica's ability is look into a person and see their worst fear has been drastically amped up... to the point where Monica's mere presence is enough to engage these waking dreams (fantasies?) in those who have a deep emotional attachment to Monica... which drags the fears out and into these visions. Jet's embarrassed look after that first kiss makes a lot more sense now... She wasn't embarrassed that she had feelings for Monica... she was embarrassed because it had been ripped from her fantasy and publically displayed out in the open and beyond her control. I think that it's not Monica driving these visions, but her Jaguar Girl abilities, which Monica hasn't really had time to totally catalog. Both Jet AND Monica have a lot to come clean about to each other...

I think this may be another of the "One from Column A, and one from Column B" situations.

I don't think it's either of them, in isolation. Georgette's feelings were apparently strong enough (even without Monica being present) to trigger the big Tina Says Rather Too Much reveal, leading to the big LOGORRHEA QUARANTINE AREA signs currently stapled to the outside of Mucho Mocha's locked doors.

But, Tina is an exceptional case where psychic sensitivity is concerned, and there's no indication that Georgette's internal mind-storm would have affected a typical mundane, such as Monica used to be. So, I agree, Monica's transformation to sub-Titan status, and her enhanced Jaguar Girl powers of "emotional seeing", are almost certainly a necessary element in what happened (and is happening) between Monica and Georgette.

The two of them got themselves into this (without intending to) and it'll have to be up to the two of them to work it out... hopefully, without either damaging the other.

[ActionKermit]

I'm seriously considering taking my new Spice and Wolf book and finding a comfy corner in the confusion corner to read it and a few back volumes before going back and rereading the last six months plus whatever time has passed to see if makes a more cohesive bundle.

It's getting too hard to focus on the nonlinear evolution of so many plot elements.

I find it helps to reread the whole archive from start to finish every 3 months or so. Lots of things that seemed like casual throwaways turn out to be foreshadowing, so I find it to be worth the effort to keep track.

[meisdadoo]

Meh, I still say Georgette is a succubus, the invader of dreams and seducer of the innocent.

[Opus the Poet]

OK even though we "know" this is all in somebody's head(s), this is still not "consensual" behavior on Jet's part as far as Monica is concerned. Even if this is entirely Jet's fantasy, the M she's fantasizing about is not cooperating. So there may be some as-yet undisclosed issues within Jet. A rejection of sexualizing her, perhaps?

[DilyV]

Meh, I still say Georgette is a succubus, the invader of dreams and seducer of the innocent.

We haz vampirez... would a succubus be that far of a reach? Her transformation would have to have been since the last time we saw her I think... Strange though that Jet still seems rather embarrassed by the situations it puts her in.

Just as a comparison to RL here... I've known girls who 'swung that way' that had no problem flirting with and were perfectly comfy with and around other women until they got around that one girl that really lit her fire... then she was all blushes and fumbles. Could Jet be this way? Or maybe just had been satisfied with her fantasies till the info dump by Tina and coming face to face with Monica, at which time Monica's Jaguar powers pulled the images out of her... It's going to be an interesting thread with a lot of interesting reveals I think. I think this thread will finally start cataloging the powers of a Jaguar Girl.

@ Opus: I'm not entirely sure that Jet is driving these images... I'm fairly sure they are Jet's fantasies, but I think Monica's Jaguar powers are dragging them out of Jet... much to Monica's consternation. I'm also not entirely sure that Monica would realize it was her own JG power causing it... so in fighting it, she's not really fighting Jet... she's fighting something within herself.

[pcj70]

yay. . . another webcomic with lesbian protagonists, because there is such a dearth of such. That was sarcasm. sigh.....

[Mark N]

Well I think we are dealing two young women that have repressed so much pain that they need each other to finally heal and that healing is gonna do like all dreams do and go on a symbolic tangent. On top of that we are faced with the subject of Autonomic Physical Reaction Vs Conscious Consent. In other words, just because the body has a positive reaction to something, that does not mean that the person is a willing participant (The news over the last several years has shown that certain people on Capitol Hill need that lesson in a bad way). It is an important subject that tends to get downplayed by the media and officials that are supposed to be protecting us. (Sorry, my soap box decided to open)

[Julie]

yay. . . another webcomic with lesbian protagonists, because there is such a dearth of such. That was sarcasm. sigh.....

Given what we've seen from Monica, I don't think it's fair to quantify her as "lesbian." If she has any interests in women, then she's firmly in the camp of bisexuality (see her very happy and physical relationship with Kevin for more info). The only truly lesbian character we've had up to this point was Heather...and I'm not 100% certain whether or not Jet is truly a lesbian or if she's just fixated on Monica for some reason (and I'm making that distinction based on knowing that most of my hetero-female friends have at least one woman they'd have sex with due to a certain level of fixation).

[Fairportfan]

First wife Susan often said that if Diana Rigg came along...

[Jabberwonky]

First wife Susan often said that if Diana Rigg came along...

Unfair comparison...I mean Diana Rigg?

therealmrspeel.jpg (20.08 KiB) Viewed 7036 times

Who wouldn't?