She Shoots She Scores 2013-03-29

[DilyV]

Now Kathy was in the Air Force??? I am surprised. After the dig tramua I cannot see how the AF would even accept her as a recruit. Unless she was in before she went to college. That would make her in her late twenties at the dig site. SO it wouldn't have been that far in the past as we originally thought. Her career must have been in choppers as well. What she had Sali do is not common knowledge on how to power up and use the weapons system with the helmet.

The dig was twenty years ago.

Katharine is in her forties.

Word of God.

I can accept that but these facts do contradict it.

You can't join the AF before you are 18, you can but they won't let you go to basic until then. The minimum hitch is 3 years, usually 4, especially for the tech fields which chopper support would be. So 18 + 4 is 22. Then college long enough so a professor includes you in a dig? Minimum of three years and you better be an exceptional student to do that. 22 + 3 = 25, we'll assume Kathy was an exceptional student. So by those numbers it's only been 15 years since the dig? There is no other way to make those numbers add up. The alternative is that Kathy is 45.
The other option is she was a child genius and entered college at 15 or 16. She would then be twenty when picked to go on the dig. Might even be taking her graduate degree already. That would let her be twenty. But then how did she get into the air force? After the dig shoot out no doc would okay her joining up. The AF does do background checks on people who have access to sensitive information. The latest avionics on those birds would be considered such and she would have a Confidential clearance at least. That background check would find her treatment history and prevent them from giving her a clearance and make her unable to work in that field. So she could not learn about them.

See what I mean. Either way the facts do not support the dates. Usually Paul dates and facts hold together. So when a mismatch happens it makes me do the math. lol.

There is away but it assumes she was captured, brainwashed, and turned into a chopper technician for a terrorist group. I mean how likely is that? She's worth more as a hostage than a worker bee.

Anyone who can fit the times to the known facts please speak up.

Paul has told us only that Katherine is in her forties. I haven't seen her exact age stated anywhere, so she could be anywhere from 40 to 49 years old.

[zachariah]

Paul has told us only that Katherine is in her forties. I haven't seen her exact age stated anywhere, so she could be anywhere from 40 to 49 years old.

That allows the facts to work. She is probably between 45 and 49 depending on how fast she earned her degree. And at what point she went on the dig. If she is under 45 they don't work at all. lol.

Sorry to carry on but when the numbers don't add up it drives me crazy and then I pass the feeling along.

[TheSkulker]

Ok, I need some help here please. This is not making any sense at all.
To me there is a pink elephant in the room and no one is mentioning it.

Facts
• There were two helicopters involving at least three people (Lily & two pilots)
• Kath wanted them grounded before they destroyed all the clues
• Kath wanted to "lose the suits"
• They are out in desolation city

Implications:
• The concern about clues implies that she wanted/intended to investigate the site further.
• To me, "Losing the suits" means that she wanted to get out from under their watchful eyes and continue the investigation without someone looking over her shoulder.

WTF:
Kath is the "professional" authorized by the library. If she wanted to be left alone why not just tell Lily & company to "get lost"?

Where is the crew??? There are no Cantinas, Starbucks or even shade nearby so why is the crew not lounging in the shade of the 'copters? I would think that any pilot responsible for an expensive and lethal machine would not just leave it and go wandering off. Even if the crew thought, "It's safe, no one's around", there's nowhere to go!

If Kath wants to be left alone for her investigations, blowing up a million dollar airframe is not going to go un-noticed or scare anybody off. It will probably rile the hornet's nest and bring a crowd to the site.

Her actions seem so counterproductive to her stated desires. Why is she doing this??? It makes no sense and defies logic. I know that last sentence is par for the course but this is quite a stretch.

What am I missing?

[Fairportfan]

One question... Where did the original chopper pilot go and where are the MiB peeps?

At the moment?

Hiding in Very Deep Holes.

[Fairportfan]

Assume that Katherine is 45. If she graduated high school at 18 that would put her leaving school and possibly joining the Air Force in the summer of '86. If she did a four year tour and left the AF the summer of 1990, that would have her matriculating for the fall semester of '90. If the dig was the summer of '93, that would mean she would be a Junior undergrad about to start her Senior year that fall.

Correspondence course while in the AF? When i was in (forty years ago) the Navy was quite supportive of continuing education...

[Fairportfan]

You've been reading the last few weeks. Would you send Atsali out without written notes?
You could send her to the store for milk; she'd return with bananas and goats.

Q: What's the difference between an elephant and a gallon of milk?

mangling an old joke to get an answer here :-p
A: Milk does not leave footprints in the butter.

See this post...

(...and, yes, it IS an old joke...)

===================

Punchline: "Campbell's Cream of Elephant Soup"

What's the set-up?

[notStanley]

Comments not so much about this episode, but the trend towards deep analysis:

PRO: I really do like the mini-history lessons that are coming out in the forum threads.

CON: The WapsiVerse is not the IRLVerse. There are lots of background information, for individuals as well as geo-politicals, that may not match and that we will never be explicitly told.

Then off-screen activity between episodes / scenes. 5 minutes of action could be between scenes, or take two weeks of updates.

I will be back over in Confusion Corner. There is a fresh batch of cookies! <mmmm, coconut raisin>

[Atomic]

Punchline: "Campbell's Cream of Elephant Soup"

What's the set-up?

Q. How do you cream an elephant?

A. (NSFW)

[ziggy78eog]

What could go wrong? No, Katherine, you must not ask the forbidden question; for that summons the dreaded spirit Murphy, and his Law spreads chaos and misery where ever he goes.

[Boxilar]

Boxilar,

Regarding the US Navy sending shells to a US Army artillery unit--Army artillery in that period was 37mm, 57mm, 75mm, 76.2mm (AT only), 105mm, 155mm, and 208mm plus various recoilless rifle calibers. The US Navy had .50 cal. (12.7mm), 20mm, 40mm, 3" (76.2mm), 5" (127mm), 6" (152.4mm), 8" (203.2mm), 12", 14" and 16" guns and did not use recoilless rifles at all. Naval 5" (127mm) guns don't equate out to any tube size the Army had. It's more likely that the actual loan (if it occurred) was .50 cal ammo, as smaller Navy ships used Ma Deuces as AA batteries and the Army made extensive use of the same weapon as infantry heavy machine guns and as AA armament on trucks and AFVs. The unit requesting the ammo would probably have been an infantry battalion rather than an artillery battery, though.

Fair point. The stroy was related to me by a relitive who served in the Navy during the Cold War era. He has been known to...embelish details from time to time. Perhaps he felt MG ammo wouldn't be as exciting as big gun shells.

[KnightDelight]

Q: What's the difference between an elephant and a gallon of milk?

No one says "Memory like a gallon of milk?"

Wow. I'm never sending you to the store for a gallon of milk!

Not to worry. A background check is required before they let you actually take the elephant from the grocery store. The only way to get one right away is from a dealer at a "Gun and Pachyderm" show.

[KnightDelight]

Her actions seem so counterproductive to her stated desires. Why is she doing this??? It makes no sense and defies logic. I know that last sentence is par for the course but this is quite a stretch.

What am I missing?

My opinion is that Kath's actions are not quite rationally thought out. She is quite paranoid about helicopters with guns. As we have seen, it's understandable. Despite her having received some medical help, she is still pretty much "crazy" on the topic and she stopped taking her meds. She is driven by just one thing; make sure these machines can't suddenly turn on her and Atsali and kill them. To her this is a real possibility, especially if she finds something of value to them. That appears to be what happened the last time. I believe she is convinced all the others were murdered because of a find at the dig site. And that may, in fact, be the case.

She doesn't know these people or their real motives. For that matter, we don't know their real motives either. We think they are benign, but are they really? For all we know, someone in the crew may be an operative with orders unknown to Lilly. Orders to silence everyone if the wrong thing is found. In any event, Kath is taking NO chances. In her mind, this is quite justified.

[DilyV]

Comments not so much about this episode, but the trend towards deep analysis:

PRO: I really do like the mini-history lessons that are coming out in the forum threads.

CON: The WapsiVerse is not the IRLVerse. There are lots of background information, for individuals as well as geo-politicals, that may not match and that we will never be explicitly told.

Then off-screen activity between episodes / scenes. 5 minutes of action could be between scenes, or take two weeks of updates.

I will be back over in Confusion Corner. There is a fresh batch of cookies! <mmmm, coconut raisin>

The deep analysis serves two fold purposes. Firstly, it helps people understand what they are seeing. Some of us have military experience so for us it's a mix of analysis and education. Secondly, we all want to understand what we're seeing. Some things that may not click for us military types will be accepted without question by someone who has no experience whatsoever. Our analysis is an attempt to understand things that don't mesh with what we know. Even for those who did very specific jobs, Military Police in my case, most Soldiers have tons of other knowledge of things we didn't specialize in. For example, I can hop into a Bradley Fighting Vehicle, start it up, even work the turret and gun if I had to, simply because as soldiers, we tend to want to learn about things we're not normally exposed to. I've been around enough infantry guys who were more than happy to show me their toys... Bradleys with their 25mm Bushmaster cannon, mortars, javelin missiles and such. It's a matter of pride between the specialties to teach others what we do and how we do it. In the long run, most soldiers have knowldge outside of their specialty.

I grant the fact that this is Wapsi-world... and I grant that in Wapsi-world, it may be completely within the realm of responsibilities that the US Air Force may field Apache Helicopters. Those of us with military experience are just trying to help everyone else understand the reality of it all. I'm pretty sure that no matter who operates what in Wapsi-world, an Apache helicopter operates the same as in the Real World. Paul has shown that we are all human and if saying airforce was a mistake, he would go back and change it to army if he felt the need, simply because he wants to keep the continuity within the realm of the plausible... kind of like fixing a spelling or syntax error. In the end, no matter what... Paul has immersed us in a world that while we know it is fantasy, it becomes somewhat real for us as we sympathize and empathize with the characters.

[Grantwhy]

Her actions seem so counterproductive to her stated desires. Why is she doing this??? It makes no sense and defies logic. I know that last sentence is par for the course but this is quite a stretch.

What am I missing?

Well, the fact that the last time Katherine was at a dig site and an armed helicopter arrived, people ... colleagues ... friends died in a very traumatic way and she was moments (and an inch) away from dying herself.

I suspect that if it was not for the presence of Atsali Katherine might have reacted very differently. (more panic/fear?)

Yes, Lily said they were sent by the Library, but Lily did imply that Atsali's life wasn't important (at least, to Katherine's ears)

If Katherine is re-living a post traumatic event (?), to be blunt she could be capable of anything?
(this time she will protect/save someone by any/every means possible)

[Grantwhy]

Assume that Katherine is 45. If she graduated high school at 18 that would put her leaving school and possibly joining the Air Force in the summer of '86. If she did a four year tour and left the AF the summer of 1990, that would have her matriculating for the fall semester of '90. If the dig was the summer of '93, that would mean she would be a Junior undergrad about to start her Senior year that fall.

Correspondence course while in the AF? When i was in (forty years ago) the Navy was quite supportive of continuing education...

What about the possibility that Katherine joined the Air Force later in life? (After the massacre).

Join in her mid/late 20's, serve for 8-12 years, leave (maybe due to a breakdown?) and return to her previous life in archaeology.

[sheik]

I have no reason to think that a busty young airman finding herself on a an Army flightline, for whatever lame excuse she might have, wouldn't be given the E ticket tour, complete with wearing the monocle and at least dry-firing the chaingun.
Kathrine may not even have been enlisted, but instead might have been ROTC, thus eliminating at least part of the time problem.

[Fairportfan]

Q: What's red and white on the outside and grey and white on the inside?

[Hansontoons]

Q: What's red and white on the outside and grey and white on the inside?

A can of Campbell's Cream of Elephant soup, of course!

Elephant jokes. Gotta love 'em!

[DilyV]

I have no reason to think that a busty young airman finding herself on a an Army flightline, for whatever lame excuse she might have, wouldn't be given the E ticket tour, complete with wearing the monocle and at least dry-firing the chaingun.
Kathrine may not even have been enlisted, but instead might have been ROTC, thus eliminating at least part of the time problem.

The funny thing is is that they probably thought she was wearing ray-bans untill she got up close... *snickers*

But, yes... most of the cross training I received in my time in was due to that very concept. I even got to drive the Bradley once... it was a blast. I always heard the tankers calling the Bradley "James Brown" all the time... it wasn't until I got to pivot steer one that I found out why... When you pivot steer, one track goes forward and the other goes in reverse, pivoting you in place. You really have to give it a lot of gas and the engine and transmission kind of whine... "Yeeeooooowwwww!!!!" *sings* I feel good!.... I knew that I would now!!! LOL

I got to sit in the front office of an apache once... Occifer pilots are worse at hitting on young, good looking female MPs than the infantry guys ever thought of being. I ran into the pilot in the chow hall a few days later and he slides up behind me in the chow line and says he could still smell my perfume in the cockpit three days later... I was like Kath in that respect... "Geeeezuz... Creepy much?" LOL Still, It was neet getting to use the IHADSS helmet (I think's thats what its called) and they powered up the gun system and I got to give it a work out. Its pretty neat though... Whereever you look, the gun follows.

[zachariah]

Assume that Katherine is 45. If she graduated high school at 18 that would put her leaving school and possibly joining the Air Force in the summer of '86. If she did a four year tour and left the AF the summer of 1990, that would have her matriculating for the fall semester of '90. If the dig was the summer of '93, that would mean she would be a Junior undergrad about to start her Senior year that fall.

Correspondence course while in the AF? When i was in (forty years ago) the Navy was quite supportive of continuing education...

I earned my degree while in the AF during that time. Yes they did allow and encourage correspondence courses, taking classes at local colleges, and even set up courses where there was no schools. The problem was that the AF did not manage the courses they just arranged for them. I ended up taking classes from 11 different colleges over 18 years before I earned my degree. Every time the AF moved me and I took more local courses from a different school. Every time the school made me enroll in that school and evaluated my courses to transfer credits into which ever degree program they offered at where I was. I ended up in 9 different degree programs over the years as well. After I retired I still ended up going to college for three more years to earn my degree despite all the classes I had. The final school did not give me credit for very much. In the end I earned my degree but I had a total of 325 college class credits from all the schools and life experience awards.. The only reason I stuck with it was because the AF paid for almost all of it plus the GI bill. It wasn't until after 2000 that on-line colleges started allowing a person to move around and still attend the same college. So yes she could have taken those classes but I doubt that would ever lessen the time she had to spend in college by much.