March 12, 2020 (aka COVID-19 thread)

[lake_wrangler]

Up in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, one small business owner does not believe his restaurant puts people more at risk of catching Covid-19 than, say, the Costco 400 meters down the street, so he decided to flout the lockdown orders and keep his restaurant open.

Lots of people supported this move, he had lots of customers (he sold out by 4 pm). The police came and visited on the first day. They came back the second day, and gave him summons for various infractions (that day, he sold out by 1 or 2 pm).

They (the police) went to the restaurant overnight and changed the lock to the front door and screwed in the sliding (garage-type) door. They were in presence full-force the following day, even going as far as to block the street leading to the restaurant ("for the safety of the public")... And later arrested the owner.

On the fourth day, the police boarded up the place and stood watch, while a large gathering of people were standing opposite them, and cooking their own food on portable BBQ grills... Oddly enough, the police never bothered them as they were doing so...


The whole saga has been reported on by Rebel News, the playlist of which you can find here (9 videos, as of the time of my typing this, dubbed the Great BBQ Rebellion):
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... Cv3xgg5gFl

It's stories like this that make me think more and more that this is about control, and no longer about a virus...
(No, I'm not saying the virus is no longer there, but that we have moved beyond trying to contain the virus, and onto controlling the populace)

[lake_wrangler]

So now, not only are some government officials determining which businesses are "essential" and which ones are not, but now they also determine which products are "essential" or not! God forbid you should spend time in a store buying "non-essentials"...

[Typeminer]

Restaurants pose far greater risks for contracting covid than big-box stores, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone who ever did time in food service and has general familiarity with current pandemic conditions.

Restaurants have people breathing without masks in an enclosed space, and the workers have pretty aerobic jobs.

Big box stores have so much volume, I've seen birds nesting in them. They have massive air-handling systems as a function of basic design. They are big enough to stay out of the way of other customers. And people aren't sitting there eating and yelling at each other to be heard over the ambient noise.

I am a voting, taxpaying citizen of a democratic republic. That means I am partly responsible for the actions of the republic, and I bear some responsibility for the health and welfare of other citizens.

The authorities had the right to shut that guy down for the same reasons that we arrest the guy who builds a campfire during a wildfire danger alert.

[Dave]

I am a voting, taxpaying citizen of a democratic republic. That means I am partly responsible for the actions of the republic, and I bear some responsibility for the health and welfare of other citizens.

The authorities had the right to shut that guy down for the same reasons that we arrest the guy who builds a campfire during a wildfire danger alert.

That's a good analogy, I think, and that's pretty much the way I see the situation.

A lot of people have been pushing back on the restrictions, on the grounds of personal choice and individual responsibility and personal liberty. I'd be willing to go among with that, I guess, if each person's individual choices affected only themselves. If John Q. Public wants to commit suicide in isolation, I figure that's John Q. Public's right.

But we aren't acting in isolation, and our choices don't affect just ourselves.

A few months ago there was a news item about a family in Maine who ignored the state's restrictions on social gatherings, and went ahead and held a wedding at which more than 50 people attended.

The follow-up: yes, somebody there was COVID-positive, and yes, they spread it to others, and there were several outbreaks in various areas traceable to the wedding. A bunch of people were hospitalized. Several (three I think) died...

... and the people who died were not ones who had gone to the wedding. They did not choose the risk.

How do we square those deaths, with the "personal choice and responsibility" of the people who ignored the emergency and went to the wedding?

Multiply this scenario by a factor of a million or so. That's what North America is facing.

People who light fires to burn brush on their property, or set off "gender-reveal" pyrotechnics or shoot off fireworks, during a "no burn" wildfire-danger period, are held legally and financially responsible if their actions set off a wildfire. They can be (and have been) socked with millions of dollars of fines for damages and firefighting costs, and faced criminal charges up to and including homicide.

How is this pandemic different?

[AnotherFairportfan]

I don't believe i'll answer that.

[jwhouk]

Simple answer: no one's got the intestinal fortitude or the cajones majoris to do it.

[Atomic]

Some information on what constitutes a Covid "case".

[Typeminer]

The county coroner here--a Republican, like all county-level elected officials except for the minority Commissioner--has said that he expects deaths to increase in two weeks, because mortality lags increases in case diagnoses, and diagnoses and rates of positive tests are heading up.

That article is trying to conflate exposure with diagnosis and imply that exposure is unimportant. It certainly is important, because it gauges the spread in the population. The more who are exposed, the more are gonna die. Or be permanently impaired.

[jwhouk]

10,000 new cases in Arizona. Over three-fourths in Maricopa County.

In. ONE. DAY.

[lake_wrangler]

Restaurants pose far greater risks for contracting covid than big-box stores, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone who ever did time in food service and has general familiarity with current pandemic conditions.

Restaurants have people breathing without masks in an enclosed space, and the workers have pretty aerobic jobs.

I would tend to disagree: over here, restaurants were told for a while to only seat at half or one third capacity. So they would stack the unused tables in a corner, or tape the "condemned" tables, leaving the other usable tables much farther apart from each other. So generally, the only people close to each other, would be whoever is eating with you, who most likely would either be a co-worker, with whom you have other contacts during the day, so it's not where you'll suddenly get infected if you eat close to them, or family members, with whom you also have contact outside of the restaurant. Having fewer patrons would leave servers with more time on their hands, (or fewer servers), so they could potentially clean and disinfect the table, once the patrons are gone, before letting someone else sit there. We already have indoor masks mandates, which would be respected by the employees, so only the patrons would be maskless while eating. They also have plexiglass in front of the cashiers, to further help reduce the chances of potentially spreading the virus.

Big box stores have so much volume, I've seen birds nesting in them. They have massive air-handling systems as a function of basic design. They are big enough to stay out of the way of other customers. And people aren't sitting there eating and yelling at each other to be heard over the ambient noise.

I'm pretty sure most restaurants have more than adequate air handling systems. And having more space for customers does not mean customers will not still run across each other, and it won't stop people from manipulating all sorts of merchandise, which will then be handled by others, and so on. And with fewer people in a restaurant than normal, there would be no need to should to be heard. In fact, I don't recall needing to have people should for me to hear them while eating at a restaurant, even in more normal times... (I never need to shout to be heard, so that's why I reversed the direction of the sentence, there...)

The authorities had the right to shut that guy down for the same reasons that we arrest the guy who builds a campfire during a wildfire danger alert.

A, I think there was unnecessary escalation going on... I mean, really? The police coming overnight, changing the locks and screwing the garage door shut? On someone's private property? Blocking the street? The horseback squad?

Had they been consistent, they should have arrested and/or ticketed everyone there... But no, they wanted to make an example of the owner, to dissuade anyone else from attempting anything of the sort afterwards.

That Adam guy (the BBQ restaurant owner) didn't set out to be arrested, but he did protest what he considered an unlawful edict, and he was ready to pay the consequences as needed. That's what civil disobedience is all about. Don't stand by and let the government bully you into submitting to unjust laws.

There are ways to enforce social distancing, even at a restaurant, without having to shut down completely, like they are doing in Ontario (or was that only in Toronto? I wasn't paying attention...) Even here, in Québec, regions that are in "Red" zones will still allow restaurants to operate, albeit take-out, drive-through, or delivery only. But at least they can still function! Forcing businesses to shut down completely will eventually force a large number of small business owners to declare bankruptcy (it's already happening, in Québec).

[lake_wrangler]

I am a voting, taxpaying citizen of a democratic republic. That means I am partly responsible for the actions of the republic, and I bear some responsibility for the health and welfare of other citizens.

The authorities had the right to shut that guy down for the same reasons that we arrest the guy who builds a campfire during a wildfire danger alert.

That's a good analogy, I think, and that's pretty much the way I see the situation.

A lot of people have been pushing back on the restrictions, on the grounds of personal choice and individual responsibility and personal liberty. I'd be willing to go among with that, I guess, if each person's individual choices affected only themselves. If John Q. Public wants to commit suicide in isolation, I figure that's John Q. Public's right.

But we aren't acting in isolation, and our choices don't affect just ourselves.

A few months ago there was a news item about a family in Maine who ignored the state's restrictions on social gatherings, and went ahead and held a wedding at which more than 50 people attended.

The follow-up: yes, somebody there was COVID-positive, and yes, they spread it to others, and there were several outbreaks in various areas traceable to the wedding. A bunch of people were hospitalized. Several (three I think) died...

... and the people who died were not ones who had gone to the wedding. They did not choose the risk.

How do we square those deaths, with the "personal choice and responsibility" of the people who ignored the emergency and went to the wedding?

Multiply this scenario by a factor of a million or so. That's what North America is facing.

I am well aware of the principle of how one's rights/freedoms end where someone else's rights/freedoms begin. That principle applies to many settings, and is definitely critical when in a health crisis.

But is the health crisis really a crisis? I am not dismissing the number of sick people or the number of people who have died, but I still maintain that the mainstream media is exaggerating the whole thing, to make people more fearful and obedient of whatever mandates come from "on high"...


Here's another example:

[AnotherFairportfan]

Michigan Pastor Tells Congregation to Catch COVID-19 and ‘Get It Over With’

A Michigan pastor has encouraged his congregation to contract the deadly coronavirus surging across the state so they can just “get it over with.” Bart Spencer, a senior pastor at Lighthouse Baptist Church in Holland, made the stunning suggestion during a Nov. 14 sermon. “COVID, it’s all good. It’s OK. Get it, get it over with, press on,” he said. More than 9,500 residents in Michigan have died from COVID-19, and Ottawa County, which includes Holland, has a 16.6 percent positive rate.

Speaking to reporters, Spencer doubled down on his bonkers suggestion, saying he and several members of his family got COVID-19 and recovered. “It’s not fun,” he said. “I lost my sense of taste and smell, but my bout with the flu was worse.”

Lighthouse Baptist Church is still holding in-person services without masks or social distancing mandates. “We trust our people to make their own decisions,” Spencer said.

Meanwhile, on the left coast:

Pastor of California Megachurch That Defied Lockdown Order Dies of COVID-19

A California pastor has died from COVID-19, five weeks after his megachurch reopened in defiance of the state’s ban on indoor religious services.

Bob Bryant, a 58-year-old associate pastor at the Water of Life Community Church in San Bernardino County, contracted the virus in November and eventually suffered severe pneumonia in his lungs, the Los Angeles Times reports.

San Bernardino is one of the hardest hit regions in a state struggling to contain a vicious winter wave of the virus. But the church nevertheless ignored a mid-July order banning indoor church services.

Church officials insisted to the Times that Byrant didn’t come to church after he developed symptoms but they weren’t sure when the pastor was last in the church.

[lake_wrangler]

Celebrity Chef Who's Defying COVID-19 Restrictions Blasts Critics: 'I'm Not the A**hole, the Governor Is'

In a video response to “all the haters” calling him a “grandmother killer” and accusing him of not taking the pandemic seriously, celebrity chef Andrew Gruel succinctly explained why he’s defying California’s COVID-19 restrictions to keep outdoor dining at his restaurant open.

[lake_wrangler]

Another Adam Skelly, but much more orderly and low-key, keeping his toy store open:

[lake_wrangler]

Tucker: Experts finally admit they were wrong from the beginning
(Schools could have remained open, after all...)




Rand Paul calls out Dr Fauci for changing position on closing schools

[lake_wrangler]

Tucker: The hypocrisy of lockdowns across America
(A lot of "do as I say, not as I do")

[lake_wrangler]

Meanwhile, back in the province of Québec...

A week ago, the Premier had told us that if we lived in a "red" zone, we would be allowed two celebrations for Christmas, over the span of four days (Dec. 24, 25, 26, 27), provided we isolated for a week in advance, and a week afterwards. There would be a maximum of 10 people allowed, but no restrictions on origins (currently, we are not allowed to have anyone in the house who does not live with us). This would be conditional to the situation not worsening. They would tell us by Dec. 11 if it all was a go.

This week, they decided they would not wait to tell us, as the number of cases and hospitalizations (they have mentioned those a couple of times, now, though I'm not sure I believe the numbers - see the video I posted a few posts back about hospitalizations being exaggerated) has been increasing, and he does not see how it can improve in time for Christmas.

So there we have it: Christmas is cancelled! No parties, no visitors. Only family members living under the same roof. (At least, they're not telling us what we're allowed to buy or not buy, like they did in Manitoba...)

So a very depressing time ahead, for all those who live alone...

[jwhouk]

Here, have some Snopes Truth with your Saturday morning coffee.

[lake_wrangler]

Weekly death stats in Canada show COVID hasn't DEVASTATED the country

Disclaimer: while this video was posted on Dec. 1, he only has up to September 30th on the graph, so it may have changed some in the fall (is this a repost?). But it would have to change a lot, in order to invalidate his point. Secondly, he pointedly avoided showing the graph for the province of Québec, or Ontario, for that matter, which are the two provinces which have been hardest hit by COVID, according to the numbers published... (Now I'm curious, I think I'll have to go visit Statistics Canada, some time soon...)

[jwhouk]

Your weekly reminder:

• As of December 5: 1,521,862 people have died from COVID-related illnesses world-wide (that we know about). Of those, 282,275 were in the United States, 18.55% of the world total. (In contrast, the US population is only about 4.3% of the world's population.)
• Among 67,443 staff and students in Mesa Public Schools, there were 229 active cases of COVID as of December 3. MPS has announced that they will be starting the second semester with remote learning, but have decided not to go "virtual" until after the Winter Break.
• Every single MPS high school save one has double-digit outbreaks of COVID, with Dobson HS (16) and Red Mountain HS (12) leading. Only Skyline HS has 5 cases - which would tie it for second if it was an elementary or JHS in the district.
• And, as of Dec. 5, Okanogan County, Washington still has a higher percentage of active cases per 100k population (3,262) than Mohave County, Arizona (3,145). In fact, four of Arizona's 15 counties have lower cases per 100k totals than Okanogan County - and only Greenlee County (2,885) has a lower population (9,498).
• Meanwhile, my home ZIP code has nearly 3 times the cases as Okanogan, and a 6,341 cases per 100k average.