Unabashed Self-Promotion

[GlytchMeister]

Coleman stoves run perfectly fine on unleaded regular.

That they do. I recall going to get "white gas" for the camp stove, back when "regular" gasoline was laced with tetraethyl lead to control knocking.

...huh. I'm gonna have to go look that up, that's awesome...

[TazManiac]

"Don't you ever cook anything other than frozen TV dinners?"
"Who bothers to cook TV dinners? I suck them frozen."
(Woody Allen)

It said, right there on the box; "Do Not Cook In Toaster Oven", but placing them, one at a time, in a small tray with water in it, I 'went to town' and cooked up two of them last night. neener-neener-neener...

FP- I'll go check out your link...

[Typeminer]

"Don't you ever cook anything other than frozen TV dinners?"

"Who bothers to cook TV dinners? I suck them frozen."

(Woody Allen)

Y'know, I believe Woody could freeze a dinner by sucking.

[Typeminer]

Coleman stoves run perfectly fine on unleaded regular.

That they do. I recall going to get "white gas" for the camp stove, back when "regular" gasoline was laced with tetraethyl lead to control knocking.

...huh. I'm gonna have to go look that up, that's awesome...

Yep. For decades, camp stoves and lanterns used liquid fuel. They even branded white gas as Coleman Fuel. I think I still have a can in the cellar.

One rough, cold, wet day in the Adirondacks, after a particularly brutal portage, I was working on lighting a campfire. Another member of the party, exhausted and uncertain, asked whether we would be able to start a fire.

I looked up at her and said, "We still have two liters of Coleman gas. Hell yes, we're going to have a fire!"

I think we did get the fire going without it.

[Dave]

As I understand it, "Coleman fuel" is a well purified (low residue) variety of petroleum naphtha, with some small amount of additives to (try to) keep the tank and generator from rusting. "VM&P" (varnish makers' and painters') naphtha from the hardware store is similar, and perhaps close to the old "white gas" one could buy.

It seems to be generally agreed that one can burn unleaded auto gasoline in Coleman liquid fuel stoves, but (1) it may burn with a smokier, sootier flame, and (2) it may tend to clog up the generator more quickly, requiring more frequent cleaning or replacement. I don't believe Coleman recommends doing this, for that reason.

Here in California there's quite a bit of difference between "summer gasoline" and "winter gasoline" formulas... the former is slower to evaporate, the latter has a significant amount of butane in it to help it burn more easily at cold temperatures. I'm not sure which would burn better in a Coleman.

[GlytchMeister]

So I have a relatively new backpacking stove that was designed to run on the little green LP tanks. Other than that, what else can I burn in it? Because LP turns to a gas before it burns, right? I'm a bit afraid of pumping actual liquid through a system made for gaseous fuel...

(I tend to pay attention to fears like that because they have saved my ass when playing with chemicals)

[Dave]

So I have a relatively new backpacking stove that was designed to run on the little green LP tanks. Other than that, what else can I burn in it? Because LP turns to a gas before it burns, right? I'm a bit afraid of pumping actual liquid through a system made for gaseous fuel...

(I tend to pay attention to fears like that because they have saved my ass when playing with chemicals)

Yes, your fears are well-founded. You can't mix those fuel/stove types. Liquid-fuel stoves have a "generator" - some sort of tubing arrangement which is heated by the flame, and which vaporizes the fuel before injecting the vapor into the burner. You have to "prime" them (put some liquid fuel in the burner and light it) to get 'em started. LP (cannister) stoves don't have a generator, and don't need priming, since their fuel boils by itself at room temperature. Liquid fuels simply won't burn in a LP-cannister burner.

Your choices seem to be three: use the original (small) store-bought cartridges, or find an adapter which will let you connect a larger LP or propane cannister or tank, or refill the cartridges. The older style of cannister (the blue type my old stove uses) is not refillable - the stove actually punctures it when you screw the burner into the holder. Apparently the newer style uses a threaded valve, and it's possible to buy a refilling valve set for these and refill them from a larger bulk supply of e.g. butane (straight propane should apparently not be used - vapor pressure is too high). Straight butane doesn't work at all below freezing, though, and doesn't work well for some temperature range above that, as it only boils at 30F. The cannister gets colder as the butane evaporates and burns, and so the stove slows down the longer you run it.

Other alternatives all seem to involve buying or making a different type of stove. Alcohol-burning stoves are popular with some backpackers - they can be made cheaply and can burn a number of different alcohol fuels (straight "everclear" ethanol is safest, but most expensive and often not available; denatured is easily available but somewhat toxic; high-proof isopropyl can be found, but is also somewhat toxic; "rubbing alcohol" is cheap and common but doesn't burn well).

http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com ... lling.html
https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice ... stove.html

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Could always pop a can of sterno in lieu of a camp stove for many situations. Compact, safe to store and move, heat when you need it.

[TazManiac]

This evolution of the thread should, perhaps, bud it's own thread in the 'off-topic' part of town-

I too have one of those Green clam-shell like camp stoves and am following these developments with interest...

[Dave]

Sterno isn't a bad fallback, and it stores easily, although (according to the Zen and the Art of Alcohol Stoves site) Sterno may not burn hot enough to boil water easily or cook properly. It's more of a chafing-dish warmer fuel.

I do like the fact that you can make your own Sterno-equivalent gel by combining alcohol and calcium acetate... and you can make the latter yourself from chalk and vinegar.

[Warrl]

So I have a relatively new backpacking stove that was designed to run on the little green LP tanks. Other than that, what else can I burn in it? Because LP turns to a gas before it burns, right? I'm a bit afraid of pumping actual liquid through a system made for gaseous fuel...

(I tend to pay attention to fears like that because they have saved my ass when playing with chemicals)

At ordinary temperatures (does not apply to a Montana Rockies winter) the pressure inside that little green tank is around 100 PSI (relative to the atmosphere around you).

The pressure you want delivered to the burners is around half of a PSI.

(I learned this a few months ago while dealing with a failing propane regulator on my motorhome. The regulators in permanent installations like this are two-stage - one stage reduces the pressure to about 10 PSI, and then the second to the desired line pressure. And they STILL typically need replaced after about 15 years. Your propane stove probably has a single-stage regulator, which likely would have a much shorter lifespan if it were constantly under pressure.)

In other words, yes, propane needs to vaporize before burning. And you're right about not feeding a liquid through a system designed for a gas. Heck, even burning natural gas (mostly methane) rather than propane can require slightly different burners - a liquid?. I don't know exactly what would happen if you pumped gasoline through it, but it would almost certainly be something other than optimal.

Coleman fuel cans (not propane bottles) are basically cans of gasoline minus some additives, though. So a burner designed for that fuel should be okay with gasoline. I think I'd avoid grilling directly over it (to keep those additives off the food) and there might be some long-term risk of damage to the equipment.

[Dave]

Coleman fuel cans (not propane bottles) are basically cans of gasoline minus some additives, though. So a burner designed for that fuel should be okay with gasoline. I think I'd avoid grilling directly over it (to keep those additives off the food) and there might be some long-term risk of damage to the equipment.

The REI site I linked to, says that "winter formulation" gasoline can be a problem for these stoves. It typically contains "oxygenates" intended to help it burn more cleanly in cold conditions. Some of these, such as MTBE, can damage equipment which isn't made for it.

There was quite a ruckus here in California, when MTBE was first introduced. It caused damage to the fuel systems of older vehicles, when the MTBE attacked some of the rubber materials (gaskets and hoses). Further problems occurred after MTBE was found to be causing groundwater pollution (leaking out of older underground tanks), was withdrawn from the gasoline, and replaced by ethanol... if I recall properly, the MTBE had caused rubber to swell, and its loss caused the swollen rubber to shrink and crack. More damage...

I'd say that if you want to be able to burn automotive gasoline in a camp stove, you should buy a model which is specifically advertised as "multi-fuel" and thus capable of handling the different fuels. Having a "Coleman fuel" stove clog up on you... or, worse, start to leak while in use... could spoil a nice backbacking trip pretty quickly.

[GlytchMeister]

This is the stove I have.

Exact same model. Same tank type, too. I have not yet had occasion to refill a tank from a normal propane tank (like a blue rhino tank) but I have seen it done. I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between the two... Everywhere I look, I am told these little green tanks contain just straight propane.

[Dave]

This is the stove I have.

Exact same model. Same tank type, too. I have not yet had occasion to refill a tank from a normal propane tank (like a blue rhino tank) but I have seen it done. I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between the two... Everywhere I look, I am told these little green tanks contain just straight propane.

OK, yes - those large green Coleman tanks contain straight propane, and I imagine that you can refill them (relatively) safely from a bulk propane tank. Plenty of Instructables and blogs and so forth out there. I know that the Coleman lanterns that screw onto this same sort of tank, can be hung from a branch and then hooked up to a bulk tank using a hose and adapter. That wouldn't work for a tank-top stove burner, of course.

These propane-only stoves and lanterns are a good choice if you're going to be camping in (sub)freezing weather. Propane boils at around -40F (or -40C) and so these stoves will work under very cold conditions.

The smaller-tank isobutane stoves are the ones you'll see here on REI's camp-stove page. As you can see, the tanks are much smaller in size, and they're also made of a lighter-gauge metal which can't stand as much pressure. These are the sorts of stoves that backpackers tend to carry, due to their lighter weight. The MSR PocketRocket weighs only around 3 ounces, plus the weight of the canister (apparently around 7.5 ounces total, with a 4-ounce load of fuel). So, for less than 3/4 of a pound of stove+fuel you're good for several days of careful use.

The green Coleman (and similar) propane canisters hold about 16 ounces of propane, and the filled tank weights about twice that (2 pounds). So, that's four times as much as a smaller isobutane canister. Add in the somewhat larger and heavier burner and the plastic base, and it's probably pushing 3 pounds... three to four times that of the backpacking type.

For car-camping, or boating, or etc. the propane ones are a good choice... the weight doesn't matter all that much, and you can cook more, faster, and longer. You can probably imagine why backpackers like the smaller and lighter isobutane stoves, though.

I just decided to indulge my curiosity about alcohol stoves, and ordered up a White Box. I'll try this out as a way of making coffee, and boiling water for some dehydrated camp meals when I drive up to the Mount Shasta area at the end of next week.

[GlytchMeister]

I also have a two-burner version that backs up like a little suitcase. I used the single-burner when I was living in my car and just kept the double one buried in my trunk. Once I moved into a room, I set up my own little kitchen in there so I didn't disturb the little old lady I used to live with - the double burner came out, along with a roll-up plastic cutting sheet, and my George Foreman grill. They all went on my chest of drawers.

Both have served me well - when camping with cub and Boy Scouts, including in subzero weather, and when living in my car. I had a little clearing in a forest I could drive to via a back road, with a little creek nearby. Very handy.

[Dave]

It's nice to be self-contained and self-reliant!

There's a big range of ranges (so to speak) for camping stoves these days, in both size and fuel. LP of various sorts, kerosene, naphtha, wood, alcohol... they all work.

For the ultimate in standby, you can still get the little solid-fuel tablets at camping stores, and burn them in something as simple as a tuna tin with a few holes punched in the side. Hexamine isn't a super-great fuel but it stores well (and is interesting when nitrated).

I suppose you could even stop at an Indian grocery and pick up a block of food grade camphor... it burns well enough, although it's usually used for altar offerings in a temple rather than for cooking.

That would really give you the full range of fuels: all the way from the sacred to the propane.

[GlytchMeister]

You glorious punning bastard.

ANYWAY

The final standby, at least for me, was to go out into the forest, get some firewood, and start a fire. I kept a large roll of twine in my car for two very good reasons: it's good cordage, and it's damn good tinder.

Due to the fact that I was living on no income, I rarely used my stoves. I cooked over a fire almost every day for that month.

The rabbit population in that area has probably mostly recovered by now...

[AnotherFairportfan]

Steel woo makes good tinder if you are striking sparks or using a fire drill.

Or if you have a battery handy.

[TazManiac]

Here is a walmart link to the same or similar as I have in the 4x4; I thinks pretty close to Glych's description of the larger of his two 'stoves'.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/895629?wmlspa ... 3=&veh=sem

(dang, that's a long link. I thought Google was my friend...)

[Alkarii]

Meanwhile, I'm so damn hairy, I could start a fire by rubbing my arms together...