Wapsi Square Forum

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/shouting-at-me/

"... run over by the same ball."

Social-Emotional Agnosia?

Umm, either Sirenfolk have a social blind spot you could drive a fleet of semis through, or we may have confirmation that Atsali is autistic spectrum. Actually both of those can be true at the same time so...

Cheesy1 wrote:Social-Emotional Agnosia?

Seems like a possibility. Especially since

Social-emotional is difficult to distinguish from, and has been found to co-occur with, alexithymia

and we've already guessed that Atsali and Alexi are going to be co-occurring freshmen...

She's not mad, she's just drawn that way!

Yep. It was JessieVision®!

Still would not be surprised if we found this is a common characteristic for both sirens and succubi. They really have no need for this ability. They control and manipulate others with either voice or lets face it sex. They would tend to key on just one emotion in much the same way a viper uses heat to hunt. Just seems that any thing else would be ignored or just flat not even seen. Just my thoughts though on the matter.

oldmanmickey wrote:Still would not be surprised if we found this is a common characteristic for both sirens and succubi. They really have no need for this ability. They control and manipulate others with either voice or lets face it sex. They would tend to key on just one emotion in much the same way a viper uses heat to hunt. Just seems that any thing else would be ignored or just flat not even seen. Just my thoughts though on the matter.

- what he said. This would explain the issues we've seen with Nadette

Come to think of it she wasn't very attuned to Kath's moods during the great adventure either... She didn't really understand something was wrong until Kath literally kicked her in the ass to dislodge her brain.

Poor Atsali though... she tries so hard and is already operating at a large deficit...

An unintentional placed "queen bee" who can't interpret social subtitles, and thus operates in an almost blunt manner. Which means people trying to dissemble are going to get very strange reactions from her. Where stated words have more power than implications of body lanugage.

I could see sirens having this issue. For them there is no point to reading body language of prey they're trying to get into the water and drowned. Especially not when magical compulsion substitutes for seduction and temptation.

An Iccubus would be a different matter, as seduction is often applied (in accounts) as much as outright magical manipulation. If not reading the body language of their "sleeping" victim, then from emotion reading. I find if difficult to pair up "persuasion" (which is what seduction is at base) with an inability to read a person. An Iccubus would need to be able to "read" his victim at some level.

I wonder if Tina would could be of help. As they both need help reading people by body language, but Tina is already very skilled at reading "auras".

Opus the Poet wrote:Umm, either Sirenfolk have a social blind spot you could drive a fleet of semis through, or we may have confirmation that Atsali is autistic spectrum. Actually both of those can be true at the same time so...

As someone who has Aspergers Syndrome (A full battery of tests and talks, actual medical diagnosis, not some stupid internet questionare diagnosis), what Atsali is saying does definitely fit the basics, severe issues with reading facial expressions and body language, and thus big problems with handling social situations, feeling uncomfortable in crowds or around strangers.
Crap, now I have to read everything since she first appeared and look for other signs associated with it.

AnotherFairpolitian...

So she wasn't shaking Atsali's head like a morracca despite wanting to.

The border of yesterday's panel should have indicated a dream sequence or
something, like the speech and thought bubbles do.

jayessell wrote:AnotherFairpolitian...

So she wasn't shaking Atsali's head like a morracca despite wanting to.

The border of yesterday's panel should have indicated a dream sequence or
something, like the speech and thought bubbles do.

The lack of background or shading and the simplified line work suggested to me that we were looking at something like ShellyVision®...

While all of these conditions are interesting they all seem to be the rest of some kind of brain damage in the individual. This is a way makes sense for Sirens and other predators and for them becomes a survival trait.

Animal predators do not think about emotional, or social, connections when hunting and killing their prey. But intelligent predators would. To be an effective predator would require that they are able to ignore, or discount, emotional connection, or feeling, towards their prey. If they couldn't then eventually they would self destruct due to emotional conflicts from eating their friends or family. So they can not tell that their prey is terrified and probably do not care if they are.

But one point does bother me. If Sali cannot read social clues then how does Pickle manage to tease her so effectively? A lot of teasing depends on facial clues and body language. Makes you wonder how Pickle survived doesn't it? After all pickle likes to yank the tail of the tiger.

A thought question:

Did Atsali's actions really cause that Demon girl to commit suicide?

As in, telling her "I HOPE YOU DIE!" before they bunked down for the night - and discovering that she actually did it?

Well, hellooo Atsali. Welcome. Come join The Club Of Those Baffled By Subtle Human Facial Expressions. And know this: Queen bee status (Or King-status) is not hindered by it.

(And, yes, I got the paperwork and the whole shebash. It made many an odd thing in my life&growing-up suddenly fall into place. )

Muh-bee JW, but maybe she 'ignored her to death'...

("omg, why dosen't she notice how much I love her?..."





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jwhouk wrote:A thought question:

Did Atsali's actions really cause that Demon girl to commit suicide?

As in, telling her "I HOPE YOU DIE!" before they bunked down for the night - and discovering that she actually did it?

Too far out-of-character. However, 'Sali could have discovered the effects of her singing when Demon girl caught a note or two, compounded upon TazManiac's observation.

I can relate to the clueless-about-emotional-clues thing. Under certain conditions, I've been completely face blind. For example, after attending a full hour-long statistics class in college, we all finished up and headed down stairs to the next class. It was on the third floor, and I took the elevator. On the first floor, a 50-ish gentleman intercepted me and starting asking some pointed questions about the class I was just in. The voice was familiar, but I couldn't place the face of the fellow in the coat and tie.

It was the statistics professor I'd just spent the previous hour with. In class, it was shirtsleeves and lots of the back of his head from the 4th row. Now face to face, this was a new person at close range.

Note the situation stack - change of venue, expectations (mind-set/focus), proximity, environment, and dress.

I've met people at a swim, but in the water with my glasses off and the poofy hairstyles gone all floppy wet, they're somebody new. Makes for some interesting conversations.

"Why I was just saying to so-and-so blah blah blah."

"Ah - that was me."

I can relate to Atsali.

zachariah wrote:While all of these conditions are interesting they all seem to be the rest of some kind of brain damage in the individual. This is a way makes sense for Sirens and other predators and for them becomes a survival trait.

Animal predators do not think about emotional, or social, connections when hunting and killing their prey. But intelligent predators would. To be an effective predator would require that they are able to ignore, or discount, emotional connection, or feeling, towards their prey. If they couldn't then eventually they would self destruct due to emotional conflicts from eating their friends or family. So they can not tell that their prey is terrified and probably do not care if they are.

Some good points. Different animals have different body language. Just look at even cats and dogs. There are some very funny videos of dogs (and cats) that are just introduced to each other totally misreading each other. And even with Dog - Human interaction you can still get misreads despite how much we've warped and selected for behavior in dogs. Highly social intelligent creatures (like humans and various related great apes) that can "empathize" with other creatures and are open to leaning their gestures can eventually "read" them like those of their own species.

I'd guess most Sirens, being traditionally intelligent paranormal hunters of humans, would never really bother with learning human-like physicality except for those that enhance their ability to pull in prey. Although as Atasli demonstrated, the song is fairly darn effective with no real suggestive body movements. If anything her stance while singing could be describe in human terms as predatory. It was aggressive for sure.

zachariah wrote:But one point does bother me. If Sali cannot read social clues then how does Pickle manage to tease her so effectively? A lot of teasing depends on facial clues and body language. Makes you wonder how Pickle survived doesn't it? After all pickle likes to yank the tail of the tiger.

I still don't think its a total emotional blank for Atsali. She can pick up on voice (otherwise Kath couldn't use "mommy voice" so effectively), and possibly greater physicality of movement (although intimate behavior like close hugs and kisses are read differently). Pickle tends to tilt a lot when being a goof. We don't know about at the orphanage, but the more recent teasing under Kath's care has been very physical in nature. Invasions of sensitive personal space, assault with plush objects, or direct verbal comment on topics she knows Atsali is sensitive about. Also Pickle literally unravels when she's sad, or gets spikey when upset/angry, big physical things that are hard to miss. I still suspect Atasli can "sense" emotion, but was never trained in the subtleties, or even to do it consciously. Pickle projects her emotions like military grade floodlights, as many hyper 5 year-olds do.