Wapsi Square Forum

Suzi, I love ya, but you seem a bit..."tactically challenged," aren't ya?

Ok, can someone point me to where we found out Katherine was Lily's daughter? Cause I remember mention of a daughter last trip to the beach, but I didn't realize they meant Katherine.

TheCollector wrote:Ok, can someone point me to where we found out Katherine was Lily's daughter? Cause I remember mention of a daughter last trip to the beach, but I didn't realize they meant Katherine.

Lily was one of the six Ethetian mothers who had quadruplets. Her 4th child is part of Katherine, who is the amalgamation of six fourth children.
Numbers are hard at 1 AM, lol.
Anyway, because Lily died alone and forgotten, she turned into a vampire, and is currently the final conscious Ethetian walking the earth today, about 5000 years after her death.

We found out about this some round about when Katherine adopted Atsali and Castela.

TheCollector wrote:Ok, can someone point me to where we found out Katherine was Lily's daughter? Cause I remember mention of a daughter last trip to the beach, but I didn't realize they meant Katherine.

We learned that via Atsali - she first identified Katherine as the six-in-one orphan and later identified Lily as one of her six mothers.

MerchManDan wrote:Suzi, I love ya, but you seem a bit..."tactically challenged," aren't ya?

Well, it looks to me as if Suzi didn't really appreciate how traumatic the loss of Lily's daughter must have been for Lily. Apparently Lily hasn't really dealt with the shock of learning that Katherine is (sort of) that lost child.

Something tells me that Lily hasn't talked about any of this with Suzi very much, during the century they've known one another... she may have just kept the pain buried inside, and never got around to breaking that habit after she teamed up with Suzi. As we've seen before these two ladies seem to have... well, an interesting and somewhat indirect style of interpersonal communication.

EDIT: just remembered that it was (apparently) only during the Big Adventure that Lily told Suzi that she'd actually died out in the Mapimi desert. Lily seems to have kept a lot of her personal history to herself...

... and Katherine's existence would also be serving to remind Lily of her three other unborn children, murdered by the Nu Gui. There's plenty of cause for pain there... not a big surprise if it's all overwhelming and depressing Lily right now.

Well, someone had to breach the subject.

Warning, warning --- wall of text in-coming!

For a quick refresher, start reading the story arc here. We learn about the separation of babies from their pregnant mothers here. Every contingency has been accounted for -- or has it. We learn about a problem here. We learn about the number of unplanned for surplus babies and their fate here and here. As we keep reading the story arc we learn here that Katerine is the amalgam of the six surplus babies from the mothers pregnant with quadruplets. Finally, here is where we learn that Lilly is one of the six women that were pregnant with quadruplets and therefore Lilly is Katherine's mother or rather one of the Katherine's six mothers. Earlier we were told that there were only two survivors that can work the stargate. Since we later learn that Katherine and Lilly can both operate the stargate, then we can deduce that the other five mothers of Katherine did not survive.


Edit - I see that Dave did superb job of describing in brief what I tried to do at length. I salute you sir!

I would guess that someone needs to unburden herself of a few millennia of anguish, pain, loss, and guilt. And then try and Look On The Bright Side Of Life.

OK - Lilly is (partly) Katherine's mother, and Lilly was the sole survivor of the Six Women. But even though Lilly may have been the First Vampire, Suzi is stronger. And, we know vampires are created by abandonment.

So -- What's Suzi's origin story? How did she get to be stronger than Lilly?

And, what's Katherine's origin story, after her being found in stasis at Mapimi?

Curiouser and curiouser...

We are forgetting something here. Yes Kathy is the result of combining the extra's from 6 sets of quadruplets so Lily is one sixth Kathy Mother. What we are forgetting is the other three. So Lily actually lost four babies and that is what she is being reminded of. Not only did she miss raising Kathy, she missed raising the other three as well. That's a lot of pain to carry around for a long time. Now Kathy and family is a constant reminder of the loss as well. She may be Nana, but she had nothing to do with the raising of them.


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Dave wrote:

TheCollector wrote:Ok, can someone point me to where we found out Katherine was Lily's daughter? Cause I remember mention of a daughter last trip to the beach, but I didn't realize they meant Katherine.

We learned that via Atsali - she first identified Katherine as the six-in-one orphan and later identified Lily as one of her six mothers.

MerchManDan wrote:Suzi, I love ya, but you seem a bit..."tactically challenged," aren't ya?

Well, it looks to me as if Suzi didn't really appreciate how traumatic the loss of Lily's daughter must have been for Lily. Apparently Lily hasn't really dealt with the shock of learning that Katherine is (sort of) that lost child.

Something tells me that Lily hasn't talked about any of this with Suzi very much, during the century they've known one another... she may have just kept the pain buried inside, and never got around to breaking that habit after she teamed up with Suzi. As we've seen before these two ladies seem to have... well, an interesting and somewhat indirect style of interpersonal communication.

EDIT: just remembered that it was (apparently) only during the Big Adventure that Lily told Suzi that she'd actually died out in the Mapimi desert. Lily seems to have kept a lot of her personal history to herself...

... and Katherine's existence would also be serving to remind Lily of her three other unborn children, murdered by the Nu Gui. There's plenty of cause for pain there... not a big surprise if it's all overwhelming and depressing Lily right now.

In other words, six in one, half a dozen mothers...

*cleans out the fridge and drops a half dozen outdated eggs in the pun jar*

Hug Lily, Suzi... and hold her tight. Keep reminding her that she has people who care dearly for her now. Let her know that though there is nothing you can do to change the past, you are proud to be part of her future and that you'll always be there to help her cope. You are the only one who really understands her origin. Let her know that you'll be there when she needs a shoulder, pick her up when she falls, kneecap her when she goes off the reservation...

MerchManDan wrote:Suzi, I love ya, but you seem a bit..."tactically challenged," aren't ya?

I believe the term is "tactfully challenged."

DilyV wrote:In other words, six in one, half a dozen mothers...

That was... well, "wickedly good" comes to mind, DilyV! Well done... I think I hear the Pun Jar applauding.

(shows what I get for staying up and posting late... handing out a setup like that and not even noticing it. Where's my coffee... grumblemulblefraz...)

jwhouk wrote:

MerchManDan wrote:Suzi, I love ya, but you seem a bit..."tactically challenged," aren't ya?

I believe the term is "tactfully challenged."

If Lily happens to have a tactical knife (euphemism for "blade intended for combat") with her beachgoing supplies, you might soon both be right

Dily V wrote:In other words, six in one, half a dozen mothers...

*braces both hands on desk to lower head and takes deep breaths*
Masterfully done Lady Dily.
*golf clap*

Atomic wrote:So -- What's Suzi's origin story? How did she get to be stronger than Lilly?

Suzi 'eats' more regularly than Lilly does. It would also explain her more emaciated figure.

I don't have a cite handy but I was given to understand, Wapsi-verse Canon style, that the more recently 'converted' Vampires were stronger...

Dave wrote:If Lily happens to have a tactical knife (euphemism for "blade intended for combat") with her beachgoing supplies, you might soon both be right

Now that would really let her cut straight to the point.

MerchManDan wrote:Suzi, I love ya, but you seem a bit..."tactically challenged," aren't ya?

Well, to be fair, I suspect it was only when Lily began to crumble that Suzi realized she had, inadvertently, found the real source of her partner's problem. Lily's obviously been refusing to talk about what's been tearing at her, and she's been keeping up such a defiant front I doubt anyone could tell how much pain she was in. Now her best friend may, at least, manage to force her to come clean. Whether that will ease the pain or not, remains to be seen.

TazManiac wrote:I don't have a cite handy but I was given to understand, Wapsi-verse Canon style, that the more recently 'converted' Vampires were stronger...

Someone posted a theory a while ago suggesting a vampire's... Eh... Vampiric-ness... Could be a function of how forgotten and un-cared-for they are. Because they died alone and forgotten, the more alone and unknown they are, the more powerful they become.
...
Which leads to the question: is there an event horizon? Is there a threashold of being loved beyond which an individual ceases to be a vampire? And when that threshold is crossed, is the individual simply cured, do they age however many years they were undead, or do they just straight-up die?

EDIT: KnightDelight was the one who came up with that theory.

If that is the case then our little pickle could very well be a one whatsit cure for being a vampire.