The elixir

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Sgt. Howard
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Re: The elixir

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I LOVE YOU ALL!!! :D
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Dave
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Re: The elixir

Post by Dave »

MerchManDan wrote:Good grief. :shock: How does something like this even exist??
Briefly, and with difficulty. :D

That book "Ignition!" is replete with discussions of all sorts of energy-packed molecules that the rocket scientists managed to synthesize, in their quest for high-impulse fuels. Naturally, the more energy that's packed into each molecule, the more eager it is to dissociate itself into simpler, low-energy forms.

A lot of the ones the author mentions, have the annoying habit of detonating spontaneously if you do something sufficiently provoking to them... like, shining a light on them, or waiting ten minutes, or looking sternly at your dog while standing in a block-house half a mile away, or something like that. Some of them explode when crystallized (even if the crystals are still suspended in liquid). They make simple chemicals like nitroglycerine, and mercury fulmanate, look like gentle fluffy rabbits by comparison.

The author mentioned one computer-based search project, that happily proposed the use of a molecule which any chemist could have immediately said was impossible in practice... couldn't be synthesized because it would have detonated spontaneously before the synthesis was done. The project cost the gov hundreds of thousands of dollars (1960s' dollars), when he could have given them the same answer for $5. For drinks. "I'd need to have at least five martinis in me, to be willing to even draw that structure."

Really... download it and read it! If you can't imagine laughing out loud at a description of practical chemistry... well, I did so a whole bunch of times while reading it. It's a nerd's treasure.
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Sgt. Howard
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Re: The elixir

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Nitro is easy to make... but it doesn't store well and it is tricky to transport. You make it on site with nitric acid, sulfuric acid and glycerin... just as much as you need, nothing more. Make it in a well-ventilated structure that you can afford to loose. Stay up wind. Keep track of the temperature of the chemicals- if the temp goes up, RUN! Have a ditch outside to jump into. NEVER handle with bare skin. Use Pyrex glass spoons, bowels, rods and test tubes. DO NOT POUR WITHOUT A ROD!!! Keep dry ice handy to keep chemicals cool. DO NOT RUSH ANYTHING!!!
... simple, really...
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Re: The elixir

Post by Atomic »

Not to mention that a certain model of Estes rockets when loaded with a condom full of talcum powder and a slight modification to the body make an excellent mortar for disrupting snotty high school parties from several hundred yards away.

At night. When the winds are calm.

So I've heard.

Just saying.

Caution -- Do not use Flour around Tiki torches. That would be just plain naughty!
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Sgt. Howard
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Re: The elixir

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Atomic wrote:Not to mention that a certain model of Estes rockets when loaded with a condom full of talcum powder and a slight modification to the body make an excellent mortar for disrupting snotty high school parties from several hundred yards away.

At night. When the winds are calm.

So I've heard.

Just saying.

Caution -- Do not use Flour around Tiki torches. That would be just plain naughty!

... you KNOW I'm gonna try that now...
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Re: The elixir

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Sgt. Howard wrote: Use Pyrex glass spoons, bowels, rods and test tubes.
The second item on that list would be really handy for when I go out for "five star, us" Thai hot food. Would help with the inevitable aftermath... ;)
Sgt. Howard wrote:
Atomic wrote:Caution -- Do not use Flour around Tiki torches. That would be just plain naughty!
... you KNOW I'm gonna try that now...
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Re: The elixir

Post by MerchManDan »

Sgt. Howard wrote:Nitro is easy to make... but it doesn't store well and it is tricky to transport. You make it on site with nitric acid, sulfuric acid and glycerin... just as much as you need, nothing more. Make it in a well-ventilated structure that you can afford to loose. Stay up wind. Keep track of the temperature of the chemicals- if the temp goes up, RUN! Have a ditch outside to jump into. NEVER handle with bare skin. Use Pyrex glass spoons, bowels, rods and test tubes. DO NOT POUR WITHOUT A ROD!!! Keep dry ice handy to keep chemicals cool. DO NOT RUSH ANYTHING!!!
... simple, really...
Heh. It's like I'm re-reading the first chapter of "Fight Club." :D

Dave wrote:Really... download it and read it! If you can't imagine laughing out loud at a description of practical chemistry... well, I did so a whole bunch of times while reading it. It's a nerd's treasure.
Thanks, I definitely will.
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Re: The elixir

Post by Mark N »

I kind of remember when my middle school shop class had us build model rockets. No one told me that the rocket had to return to earth or that I could not pack the nosecone with gunpowder and seal it up with a long wick to the engine. The shocking thing was that no one even bothered to tell the school administrators about it, but I was sent to testing for the gifted program right after that. :twisted:
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Re: The elixir

Post by GlytchMeister »

MerchManDan wrote:
Dave wrote:Chlorine trifluoride as an oxidizer... hmmm. "It is of course extremely toxic, but that's the least of the problems."
Oooh boy, here we go. :lol:
Dave wrote: "It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with things such as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water - with which it reacts explosively."
Good grief. :shock: How does something like this even exist??
You think that's bad? You should look up a little somethin called O2F2. Not only does it desperately want to not exist at room temperature, it will also set pretty much anything on fire. Violently.
It's described as "violently hideous"..."deeply alarming"..."the gas of lucifer"...and my personal favorite: Satan's Kimchi.
:shock:
Yeah.
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Re: The elixir

Post by jwhouk »

I see from that article that it's also called "FOOF" - which is pretty much the last sound you hear before you disintegrate from the explosion.
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Re: The elixir

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I love how this has degenerated into the lustings and confessions of a group of over-age pyro-geeks! This is totally cool! I am scribbling down all the references and links, looking forward to the 4rth of July this year!!!
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Re: The elixir

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Sgt. Howard wrote:I love how this has degenerated into the lustings and confessions of a group of over-age pyro-geeks! This is totally cool! I am scribbling down all the references and links, looking forward to the 4rth of July this year!!!
If you do end up experimenting with FOOF or fluorine chemistry in general, get your affairs in order, then contact Destin from Smarter Every Day and the Mythbusters. See if they can help or point you in the direction of people who can and are crazy enough to try.
And for cryin out loud, get it on video. High speed, high def if you can. I wanna see what happens when FOOF goes either horribly right or horribly wrong.
... FOR SCIENCE!
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Sgt. Howard
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Re: The elixir

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GlytchMeister wrote:
Sgt. Howard wrote:I love how this has degenerated into the lustings and confessions of a group of over-age pyro-geeks! This is totally cool! I am scribbling down all the references and links, looking forward to the 4rth of July this year!!!
If you do end up experimenting with FOOF or fluorine chemistry in general, get your affairs in order, then contact Destin from Smarter Every Day and the Mythbusters. See if they can help or point you in the direction of people who can and are crazy enough to try.
And for cryin out loud, get it on video. High speed, high def if you can. I wanna see what happens when FOOF goes either horribly right or horribly wrong.
... FOR SCIENCE!
... first of all, the Lady Hetrodyne will NOT be here to assist me. Annie will not allow it, she says I am too alluring to nerdy girls and doesn't want to resort to bloodshed. Secondly, yes I actually have the materials and whatnot to MAKE the stuff... but I still remember flying through the air wearing only my keds because the blast denuded me, and landing on hot asphalt because I underestimated the effects of two fluid ounces of nitroglycerine. This stuff is clearly out of my league. Any chemical that is more unstable than either my first or third wife will NOT be experimented with on this property.

I like the tricks with flour and tiki lamps, however...
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Re: The elixir

Post by GlytchMeister »

Sgt. Howard wrote:... first of all, the Lady Hetrodyne will NOT be here to assist me. Annie will not allow it, she says I am too alluring to nerdy girls and doesn't want to resort to bloodshed. Secondly, yes I actually have the materials and whatnot to MAKE the stuff... but I still remember flying through the air wearing only my keds because the blast denuded me, and landing on hot asphalt because I underestimated the effects of two fluid ounces of nitroglycerine. This stuff is clearly out of my league. Any chemical that is more unstable than either my first or third wife will NOT be experimented with on this property.

I like the tricks with flour and tiki lamps, however...
(YES! He got my Girl Genius reference! Squee!)

Ahem.

Here's an escalation of the flour+tiki lamps you might find fascinating.
He's mister GlytchMeister, he's mister code
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Re: The elixir

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GlytchMeister wrote:
Sgt. Howard wrote:... first of all, the Lady Hetrodyne will NOT be here to assist me. Annie will not allow it, she says I am too alluring to nerdy girls and doesn't want to resort to bloodshed. Secondly, yes I actually have the materials and whatnot to MAKE the stuff... but I still remember flying through the air wearing only my keds because the blast denuded me, and landing on hot asphalt because I underestimated the effects of two fluid ounces of nitroglycerine. This stuff is clearly out of my league. Any chemical that is more unstable than either my first or third wife will NOT be experimented with on this property.

I like the tricks with flour and tiki lamps, however...
(YES! He got my Girl Genius reference! Squee!)

Ahem.

Here's an escalation of the flour+tiki lamps you might find fascinating.
... dude... I could SO do that... that is nothing more than a cremora bomb on steroids... you could do it with flour or coal dust, I suppose...
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Re: The elixir

Post by GlytchMeister »

Sgt. Howard wrote:... dude... I could SO do that... that is nothing more than a cremora bomb on steroids... you could do it with flour or coal dust, I suppose...
Wait.
COAL DUST?
...
Why didn't I think of that? That's... That's brilliant!

...hmmm... I wonder what would happen if we used black powder?

:twisted:

Or... fine Magnesium dust?

OOH! OOH! What about THERMITE?

I bet those last two could be gainfully weaponized! The magnesium dust could be used as a massive flash, especially in night ops where you know the enemy is using night vision goggles. Something that bright might even disable the goggles. And the thermite would probably be a bit of a slower burn, but still bright and hot. It could be used to screw with heat-seeking things. Or put a bunch of them near an airstrip to mess with landing planes! Also, has anyone ever noticed people who archive binge all of girl genius all in one go, stopping only for sleep, school, and work, do those people start acting a bit... Sparky? Because right now it's after 1AM and I'm suddenly VERY AWAKE!
He's mister GlytchMeister, he's mister code
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They call me GlytchMeister, whatever I touch
Starts to glitch in my clutch!
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Re: The elixir

Post by jwhouk »

...and the NSA will be knocking on your door in three, two...
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Re: The elixir

Post by Dave »

GlytchMeister wrote:OOH! OOH! What about THERMITE?
The problem with thermite is that you need to get it quite hot to start the combustion process... the traditional mix needs something as hot as burning magnesium ribbon to touch it off. I'm not sure that a fine dispersion of thermite would "catch" at all easily, or that the flame front would move through it the way you'd like.

Most of the "fuel in air" things that go WHOOMP, involve the use of fuels with relatively low flash-points.

Now, finely powdered magnesium as a fuel, blasted outwards by a dose of the unstable oxygen difluoride (O2F2, or FOOF) oxidizer that was recently mentioned... that would make one heck of a flash-bang. In fact, one of the intermediate combusion products would be an ionized magnesium-oxygen-fluorine compound, FOOM, which makes all kinds of sense. Looked at from the other end of the molecule, it would be MOOF, of course, so I guess we have to call this the Dogcow Bomb.
GlytchMeister wrote:Also, has anyone ever noticed people who archive binge all of girl genius all in one go, stopping only for sleep, school, and work, do those people start acting a bit... Sparky?
Those who obsess about the affairs of the Heterodynes, are simply moving to the beat of a different drama. :mrgreen:

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Re: The elixir

Post by GlytchMeister »

I wonder if there is a way to mess with the air itself with heat enough to screw up how planes fly. It's been theorized that methane bubbles from the bottom of the Bermuda triangle are what cause boats and planes to sink or crash for no obvious reason. The way it works is how methane is lighter than air. Planes are built to fly in air, but the wings don't work right in gasses with lower densities. The less dense the gas, the less lift it provides, and bam, Poseidon's your uncle.
(Totally different mechanism for boats)
It might also choke the engines, if the methane is so prevalent that there isn't enough oxygen. Or it could be mixed, and the engines spark it, causing several acres of ocean to suddenly violently catch fire. And that would make pretty much any plane crash, I think. Possibly by freaking out the pilot so much he loses control. I know I'd lose control of several things if that happened to me.

Anyway, could the same be done by heating the air to decrease its density or create nasty currents that could crash a plane? Especially around an airport?

Also, sorry sarge, I'm kinda passing time while we wait for the next installment. If it's coming. I dunno. No pressure, I guess, if you don't feel like writing, that's ok. But I do like the story and would like to read more.
He's mister GlytchMeister, he's mister code
He's mister exploiter, he's mister ones and zeros
They call me GlytchMeister, whatever I touch
Starts to glitch in my clutch!
I'm too much!
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Re: The elixir

Post by GlytchMeister »

jwhouk wrote:...and the NSA will be knocking on your door in three, two...
If they do, they better have an offer of employment as a creative weapons designer. Otherwise, they can just stand out in the rain. Have fun dodging lightning bolts, suckers! [point and laugh]
He's mister GlytchMeister, he's mister code
He's mister exploiter, he's mister ones and zeros
They call me GlytchMeister, whatever I touch
Starts to glitch in my clutch!
I'm too much!
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