Wapsi Square Forum

GlytchMeister wrote:
<snip>

That seems like there is something that polices the paras, and I'd bet a bottle of soda it's the MIB, as it's already an agency in place with a precedent mission statement of "keep things running smoothly" by Jin, who was their singlehanded predecessor.

"Keeping things running smoothly" requires everyone or almost everyone to behave, and that doesn't happen without a damn good force keeping everyone in line. Cops backed up by the threat of a global war between humans and Paras probably have the chutzpah to make almost everyone behave themselves.

I agree. And let's not forget who backs up the MiB. Jin may have 'retired', but Bud and Brandi are still fully functional, Tepoz made it impossible for anyone to control them (except Monica, thanks to extraordinary circumstances), and I think only Maya knows spells that could affect them. The most apex apex apex of paranormal predators are simply soap bubbles to them, and if you get somebody determined to cause trouble, they may get their wish in ways they don't want.

eee wrote:if you get somebody determined to cause trouble, they may get their wish in ways they don't want.

To quote the Uncle: "Why borrow trouble when one could have all one wanted for free?"

GlytchMeister wrote: . . . As for the weirdness surrounding predatory instincts: it seems to me kids and adults who are new to being paranormal (recently metamorphosed) have the most trouble controlling their nature. And it's kind of unreasonable to expect kids to have an iron grip on themselves. Kids are stupid. They're gonna freak out and get their paranormal groove on because they don't have the self-control required to not do so.

Gryphon School has already been established to have lessons or overarching requirements involving the development of control over paranormal natures. Kids have to maintain human appearance, have to hold their Glamours when in intense physical activity (see the swimming lesson), yadda yadda yadda.

I think what we haven't seen are the majority of paras that have no trouble controlling themselves.

As far as instincts, humans have basically none. That's one of the things that makes humans such superb generalists.

The evidence we've seen indicates that many paranormals are substantially otherwise: they have a substantial level of instinctive behaviors.

Combined with inexperience and teenage hormones, that's a really bad combination.

And how often do teenage humans do destructive things to themselves or to others? Despite having no abilities that nobody around them doesn't have?

--FreeFlier

FreeFlier wrote:

GlytchMeister wrote: . . . As for the weirdness surrounding predatory instincts: it seems to me kids and adults who are new to being paranormal (recently metamorphosed) have the most trouble controlling their nature. And it's kind of unreasonable to expect kids to have an iron grip on themselves. Kids are stupid. They're gonna freak out and get their paranormal groove on because they don't have the self-control required to not do so.

Gryphon School has already been established to have lessons or overarching requirements involving the development of control over paranormal natures. Kids have to maintain human appearance, have to hold their Glamours when in intense physical activity (see the swimming lesson), yadda yadda yadda.

I think what we haven't seen are the majority of paras that have no trouble controlling themselves.

As far as instincts, humans have basically none. That's one of the things that makes humans such superb generalists.

The evidence we've seen indicates that many paranormals are substantially otherwise: they have a substantial level of instinctive behaviors.

Combined with inexperience and teenage hormones, that's a really bad combination.

And how often do teenage humans do destructive things to themselves or to others? Despite having no abilities that nobody around them doesn't have?

--FreeFlier

WRONG!!! We have instincts, we have suppressed them. I am a fairly feral human with my instincts pretty much intact- they serve me well. Nobody will play poker with me- more than once. I can determine a hellish amount of information by smell alone. My hand-to-hand skills have been copied and taught... but they still don't know how I do it. There is very few game I won't hunt. Tracking to me is a casual pastime.
There is nothing outstanding about me physically or mentally except I have taught myself how to listen to the more primitive sensory inputs- it is my belief that anyone can do this

Sgt. Howard wrote:

FreeFlier wrote:

GlytchMeister wrote: . . . As for the weirdness surrounding predatory instincts: it seems to me kids and adults who are new to being paranormal (recently metamorphosed) have the most trouble controlling their nature. And it's kind of unreasonable to expect kids to have an iron grip on themselves. Kids are stupid. They're gonna freak out and get their paranormal groove on because they don't have the self-control required to not do so.

Gryphon School has already been established to have lessons or overarching requirements involving the development of control over paranormal natures. Kids have to maintain human appearance, have to hold their Glamours when in intense physical activity (see the swimming lesson), yadda yadda yadda.

I think what we haven't seen are the majority of paras that have no trouble controlling themselves.

As far as instincts, humans have basically none. That's one of the things that makes humans such superb generalists.

The evidence we've seen indicates that many paranormals are substantially otherwise: they have a substantial level of instinctive behaviors.

Combined with inexperience and teenage hormones, that's a really bad combination.

And how often do teenage humans do destructive things to themselves or to others? Despite having no abilities that nobody around them doesn't have?

WRONG!!! We have instincts, we have suppressed them. I am a fairly feral human with my instincts pretty much intact- they serve me well. Nobody will play poker with me- more than once. I can determine a hellish amount of information by smell alone. My hand-to-hand skills have been copied and taught... but they still don't know how I do it. There is very few game I won't hunt. Tracking to me is a casual pastime.
There is nothing outstanding about me physically or mentally except I have taught myself how to listen to the more primitive sensory inputs- it is my belief that anyone can do this

You said it yourself: you taught yourself. That's learned behavior, not instinct.

Instinct is not learned, it's there at birth, like a baby antelope knowing how to run minutes after birth. Humans take years to learn that.

--FreeFlier

I would guess at this school, if you get into an argument you do NOT want to get mad and say:
"Aw BITE ME!!!"

FreeFlier wrote:And how often do teenage humans do destructive things to themselves or to others? Despite having no abilities that nobody around them doesn't have?

Hah.

Some teenagers - generally boys, but the occasional girl - have incredibly over-active Bad Idea Glands, compared to their peers.

AnotherFairportfan wrote:

illiad wrote: well I guess people like them may be the 'highly evolved' part of wild bears... they managed to 'morph' into something else, to hide away from predators...
much like primates developed a way to feed more efficiently, to get enough energy to enable a higher brain to outwit their predators, instead of having to fight them!

Wonder if they're related to the bears camping on the Bluegrass Parkway's median...

I used to have that issue of Asimov's

FreeFlier wrote: You said it yourself: you taught yourself. That's learned behavior, not instinct.

Instinct is not learned, it's there at birth, like a baby antelope knowing how to run minutes after birth. Humans take years to learn that.

--FreeFlier

I taught myself to not ignore it. There is a difference. It is there- we are taught it is not or that it is unimportant. Children are aware of it, but it leads to behavior that is considered unacceptable or impolite.

The buzzing you feel in the back of your mind when you are approaching a shady part of town.

The rush of blood, spit and vinegar you feel when someone you love is threatened.

The flood of love and affection you feel when you look into the eyes of the love of your life.

I'd say we have instincts. Powerful ones, at that.

eee wrote:Ah. That sheds some light of Coach Adler's behavior. Since she - who I assume is a predator - doesn't tear her husband apart (sexual matters aside), she assumes others will have similar restraint, and everyone needs to learn to live together. Which is great, until you run into someone who can't or won't control themselves, and people get hurt...

(This also explains why she focused on Atsali. 'Sali could well be the poster child for 'Predator restraining their natural tendencies'. Most of the time, that is.)

That might actually relate back to my query of where exactly omnivorous and scavenger paras fall on the scale.

Perhaps Coach Adler is a scavenger type para, but lumped in with "predats" because of it.

Sgt. Howard wrote:

FreeFlier wrote: You said it yourself: you taught yourself. That's learned behavior, not instinct.

Instinct is not learned, it's there at birth, like a baby antelope knowing how to run minutes after birth. Humans take years to learn that.

--FreeFlier

I taught myself to not ignore it. There is a difference. It is there- we are taught it is not or that it is unimportant. Children are aware of it, but it leads to behavior that is considered unacceptable or impolite.

I can verify that - I have a friend who grew up on an 'American Indian' reservation - it seems 'supernatural' , but it is just her acute senses and observations skills.. she can feel the pressure drop, meaning it will soon rain...
If you have seen the film / series 'limitless' - the guy can hear a cars clutch slipping, the brakes straining, tyres making a noise indicating extreme wear, and notice the car in front stalled, so predicts the car will crash...

GlytchMeister wrote:

Thor wrote:Some of us don't see movies until they are out on Blu-ray and/or streaming, because theaters have become expensive venues with uncomfortable chairs and overpriced foods filled with children who can't stop discussing the movie at the top of their voices and adults who can't put their phones down for two consecutive seconds.

The spoiler avoidance can be tricky at times, but it's not impossible. I still remain unspoiled on almost everything about The Force Awakens, and that's a major cultural touchstone.

For once, Thor, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

If I ever go to a movie theater, it's a matinée, I bring my own food, on an off day when almost nobody else is there... And someone else bought the tickets.

I spring for the early morning weekday showing, when it's the cheapest. And only if I really really want to see the movie in theaters.

Either Wreck-It Ralph or Tf3: Dark of the Moon was the last movie I saw in a theater that I had to pay for myself. I had to show up at either 9:30 or 10:00 am to catch it. the last one I saw in theaters over all was Age of Extinction With my brothers and two cousins. The Dinobots were severely underutilized, but at least the human sidekicks were completely changed out and way more tolerable (for the most part) that time around.

I suppose my main issue is there isn't much to really back up that the MIB has any backbone. We've never seen them influence a para that should be far more powerful than them, in fact I'd argue beyond Pratt and McBride who are the aforementioned human-like paras that tend to command them, they're background comedy. A little blonde girl outsmarted them and stole their incredibly expensive and dangerous helicopter. Hardly what I'd call a crack team. To add on here... one of their fresh additions is going around performing brutal vigilante justice on humans. If they had any backbone, she'd have been dealt with already.

Going back to my example, Bigby(aka The Big Bad Wolf) from Fable may be the Sheriff but he can't go hog wild either. Killing isn't his first choice if he can help it, although plenty of Fables are sturdy as hell and can take a bit of a beat down. People went immediately to our remaining Golem Girls, Brandi and Bud and almost instantly spoke of their Supernatural Might and that the fear of that may keep some in line. Honestly? I've not seen anything to suggest a Sphinx couldn't beat one of them down, separated. The girls are a strong bunch, but the supposed idea is that breaking the Chimera up into the Snake, Goat and the Lion was to make them weaker, not to keep them strong.

Rambled on a bit, the point is. If they are at the top of the supposed food chain, what's there to keep them in check? Or supposed to keep them in check. They run the MIB, and if they're Top Dogs when it comes to strength they could do whatever they want. By example, while Bigby Wolf is a bad ass and can just let all his modern bullshit go and turn back into a Big Bad Wolf. He can still be dealt with. If the Sheriff gets out of control, the same punishment can be given to him.


Then again if using Sphinx's as our Top Dog(or cat in this case) example, other than Phix and Shelly I've never seen or heard mention of one of their kind in the "normal" world. They seem to be a non-entity unless you traverse to hidden places. I'm trying to not dig deeper than I need to for my examples, simply because as a comic strip we should try to take what we've seen or be told in the comic as the facts.

GlytchMeister wrote:The buzzing you feel in the back of your mind when you are approaching a shady part of town.

The rush of blood, spit and vinegar you feel when someone you love is threatened.

The flood of love and affection you feel when you look into the eyes of the love of your life.

I'd say we have instincts. Powerful ones, at that.

I grew up in Park City, Kansas. Dennis Rader was our dog catcher. I've met him twice and I don't think I've ever been more creeped out in my life. You speak of suppressing instincts, the man was somehow a deacon at his church. You could feel his...his darkness (not really sure what else to call it) from 15 ft away, yet somehow he was a deacon.

Akeche wrote:
<snip>

Going back to my example, Bigby(aka The Big Bad Wolf) from Fable may be the Sheriff but he can't go hog wild either. Killing isn't his first choice if he can help it, although plenty of Fables are sturdy as hell and can take a bit of a beat down. People went immediately to our remaining Golem Girls, Brandi and Bud and almost instantly spoke of their Supernatural Might and that the fear of that may keep some in line. Honestly? I've not seen anything to suggest a Sphinx couldn't beat one of them down, separated. The girls are a strong bunch, but the supposed idea is that breaking the Chimera up into the Snake, Goat and the Lion was to make them weaker, not to keep them strong.

A bit of perspective: The GGG draw power from the rotation of the galaxy. That's a level Superman can't touch and Galactus would approach with extreme caution. They're apparently invulnerable and indestructible, and as Bud commented once, any one of them could hit the Earth so hard it would create a shockwave that would implode the Sun. The oldest, strongest Sphinx would be as helpless against them as a newborn babe against a battleship.

The splitting of the Chimera was to stop its destructive rampage and restore the sanity of the girls. It didn't make them weaker, individually.

Akeche wrote:Rambled on a bit, the point is. If they are at the top of the supposed food chain, what's there to keep them in check? Or supposed to keep them in check. They run the MIB, and if they're Top Dogs when it comes to strength they could do whatever they want. By example, while Bigby Wolf is a bad ass and can just let all his modern bullshit go and turn back into a Big Bad Wolf. He can still be dealt with. If the Sheriff gets out of control, the same punishment can be given to him.

They obey Monica. Even if she's almost never used that power. And it would appear the Lathians chose three women of extraordinary character to begin with as the templates for their golems. They stop themselves.

Also, this is why the Nu Gui was so terrifying. It had all Brandi's abilities, but none of her goodness or compassion, and was dedicated only to vengeance. If Bud and company hadn't managed to yank it out of her, how could it have been stopped?

Akeche:
I doubt very much that Phix etc, are the top.. there are ALWAYS 'higher up' paras.. you need to check the archives again !

Phix was angry at Monica and friends for 'showing off' their abilities in public - once the whole world gets to know, and gets paranoid about it, that would be the end... no 'pleasant backwater' away from the library, they may have to wait 200 years for people to forget...

I guess the idea that "They won't destroy everything cause they are really, REALLY good people!" feels like a dangerously flimsy thing to hope for. As someone mentioned, Brandi had been turned into a Meat Puppet. How hard would it be for it to happen again?

Stepping back a bit and looking at something a bit farther down on the food chain. Suzie. I brought it up because... Unless I've not been paying attention, only Lily knows about her going all The Punisher on people. How long can that last? Especially when it was apparently a problem when they were still FBI and supposedly suppressed. If things come down to it, would she actually be punished for it?

illiad wrote:

Sgt. Howard wrote:

FreeFlier wrote:You said it yourself: you taught yourself. That's learned behavior, not instinct.

Instinct is not learned, it's there at birth, like a baby antelope knowing how to run minutes after birth. Humans take years to learn that.

I taught myself to not ignore it. There is a difference. It is there- we are taught it is not or that it is unimportant. Children are aware of it, but it leads to behavior that is considered unacceptable or impolite.

I can verify that - I have a friend who grew up on an 'American Indian' reservation - it seems 'supernatural' , but it is just her acute senses and observations skills.. she can feel the pressure drop, meaning it will soon rain...
If you have seen the film / series 'limitless' - the guy can hear a cars clutch slipping, the brakes straining, tyres making a noise indicating extreme wear, and notice the car in front stalled, so predicts the car will crash...

That's all acuteness of senses and attention, not instinct, and it can be learned.

And I can do it too. Most people simply don't pay attention, they're too busy thinking about the latest pseudo-celebrity scandal.

Instinct is hardwired behavior like being able to run for your life minutes after being born . . . little to no learning involved.

Humans have to be taught to walk, run, eat . . . animals don't.

--FreeFlier

Akeche wrote:I guess the idea that "They won't destroy everything cause they are really, REALLY good people!" feels like a dangerously flimsy thing to hope for. As someone mentioned, Brandi had been turned into a Meat Puppet. How hard would it be for it to happen again?

It IS flimsy. When Jin was schizophrenic everyone who knew was walking on eggshells that she'd get confused between reality and her delusions, try to shred the latter, and wind up eliminating the Earth. That's why they went to extreme lengths to cure her before they ran out of luck and she ran out of sanity.

Akeche wrote:Stepping back a bit and looking at something a bit farther down on the food chain. Suzie. I brought it up because... Unless I've not been paying attention, only Lily knows about her going all The Punisher on people. How long can that last? Especially when it was apparently a problem when they were still FBI and supposedly suppressed. If things come down to it, would she actually be punished for it?

Suzie's boss at the FBI, and apparently some of the higher ups, knew and covered for her, saying for instance that the child killer she bit the face off of had committed suicide with a shotgun. I would not be surprised if similar is happening in the MiB.

Also, consider that she's been doing this apparently since the 1800's. She's not a newb at the vigilante killer business and getting away with it. And besides, who in the normal community is going to believe a vampire serial killer is out there preying on killers and rapists? And if they DO believe, who is going to care that much, aside from their relatives? That's probably why nobody has stomped on her for her activities. She's doing what's necessary, she's usually not being overt about it (although skinning the one guy alive and calling paramedics to keep him living a few hours longer so he could suffer more was extreme and an exception; apparently he REALLY angered her), and she's otherwise reliable. If necessary we know most of the paras we've seen could stop her, temporarily or permanently; but apparently nobody regards it as necessary.

Yet.