Wapsi Square Forum

chalcara wrote:The point's honesty, support and trust, Shelly, you know, what friendship's about?

I can't stand Shelly right now the same reason I cannot stand Nudge: Keeping things away from others because it's easier, even "for their own good" takes away what makes a person a person: The ability to make informed decision for themselves. It's treating them as animals to be trained as opposed to friends.

Shelly should've at least tried to warn Monica, even if it's just a "Monica, you're supposed to be a Jaguar girl, it's important, do some frigging research into it". - If Monica would've headed it would've been her own decision. But keeping it away from Monica because it's easier, that's not the action of a friend.

I wouldn't be able to trust or even want to be in the same room as her if I'd found out she knew something that important to my future and didn't tell me because "there was no point".

There's a key difference though between Nudge and Shelly.

Nudge is basically a pathological liar, it's so ingrained in her brain to be a trickster I don't think she could function without it (similar to how Tina long long ago said she can't help but speak in riddles, even when she actively tries not to). Nudge even goes out of her way to insert herself in situations, just so she can manipulate people and events (the Sphinx over-hunting of demons and demon-possessed, Bia and Phix&Shelly's first meeting, etc), often with no regard for her own safety (human-Nudge's meeting with Tina & Shelly, and most every encounter she's had with Phix).

Shelly, on the other hand, is quite the opposite, usually far too blunt and upfront with her thoughts and feelings. For Shelly, the deception game is something outside her comfort zone (as we saw pre-calendar machine when she had to keep her & Bud's plan secret from Monica, Jin, and Brandi). Meaning it is more of an intentional act by Shelly when she behaves like this, unlike Nudge where its more a natural or instinctive act.

I'm not quite sure how this "burn her way out" thing would have worked. From what I see, the entire body is turned to ice, not just covered in an ice shell. If it were just a shell, then the ice melting in this last Monica-cicle incident would have been a good thing. How do you burn your way out when every cell in your body has been turned to ice? Seems like that would be suicide.

Dave wrote:I have to wonder whether Phix and Nudge may have come to an agreement that it was past time to stop hiding things from Shelly and Monica. Just what quiet places are being filled?

um, I dont think that has anything to do Shelly and Monica??? have you not had a great big argument with a friend you work with?? that is surely what that link is about.. you have to work with them, so you have to get back to understanding again....:/

Mark N wrote:I am just glad that this strip might be able to cool off the Shelly hatters that have been cropping up. She gets a chance to explain why she has been dangling clues instead of just telling Monica everything. This also drops off the idea that Euryale is dangerous around others (well, those that don't deserve a good frosting at least).

On your behalf, I will deposit a frosted three-layer cake for the pun jar.

. . . or is it an ice cream cake?

sonicthunder wrote:(as we saw pre-calendar machine when she had to keep her & Bud's plan secret from Monica, Jin, and Brandi). Meaning it is more of an intentional act by Shelly when she behaves like this, unlike Nudge where its more a natural or instinctive act.

If you mean when they had to stick a knife in M's head, well what would you think if your friend said they had to do that to you??? I guess you would suddenly want to find yourself as far away as you could possibly get.....

Bathorys Daughter wrote:I'm not quite sure how this "burn her way out" thing would have worked. From what I see, the entire body is turned to ice, not just covered in an ice shell. If it were just a shell, then the ice melting in this last Monica-cicle incident would have been a good thing. How do you burn your way out when every cell in your body has been turned to ice? Seems like that would be suicide.

well pablo has not made that at all clear, so there is no truth in it until he says....

Sphinx-Napped: PLEASE dont lower the tone to pre-teen level.... there are only girls present, they dont think like that!!

for example, while you are talking with your male friends at the pub/ cafe, and a similar argument happens, would you look him straight in the eye, or avert them, (body language for " I'm not threatening " ) and would your friend say, why are you looking at my ****** ???


BTW sorry for multi post, they *should* go next to their 'parent' , but this forum cannot do that.....

sonicthunder wrote: Nudge is basically a pathological liar.

So far no one can call Nudge a pathological liar because we have (maybe) only seen her lie once (assuming that she never planed to tell Phix that Monica was dead). All she has done is tell the truth at the right moments to get her effect. Even her way of getting the Sphinx locked into the Library was by telling the truth. All she did was tell him to throw the book at the Sphinx and the problem would be solved. She never said how the book would do it, so no lie was used.

illiad wrote:

Dave wrote:I have to wonder whether Phix and Nudge may have come to an agreement that it was past time to stop hiding things from Shelly and Monica. Just what quiet places are being filled?

um, I dont think that has anything to do Shelly and Monica??? have you not had a great big argument with a friend you work with?? that is surely what that link is about.. you have to work with them, so you have to get back to understanding again....:/

Right.. but please consider just what the big brawl was all about? What triggered it? What sort of issues would Phix and Nudge have to work out between them, in order to work together again well?

The whole ugly mess happened precisely because of Monica and Shelly... because of what had been concealed from them, because of things they learned suddenly and in a terribly traumatic fashion, and because of what these revelations did to their trust-relationships with Phix! Phix lashed out at Nudge, because Nudge goaded and confronted her with the fact that her own "sphinx enigma" attitude of secrecy and manipulation had been a huge contributor to the blow-up.

You really can't separate the "Nudge and Phix rage-race" effect from the "We and others have been lying to Monica and Shelly, by omission at the very least, about who they and we really are" cause.

Once the adrenaline wore off, and Phix and Nudge were talking again on a mostly-friendly basis (as Nudge's expression seems to suggest) the question of "Well, what do we do now?" would surely be on both of their minds. "What are we going to tell Monica and Shelly, and who's going to say what to which of them?" would be a huge part of this...

... possibly even before the sticky issue of "Ok, who gets the mop and gets the last bits of sphinx-gore off of the flagstones before the place really starts to stink?"

Previously on Being Monica...

"Problem?"
"She's stubborn!" *
"She's smart and will figure things out." *

"Don't you think this might've been important?!!" *
"At what point would you have had me tell you?"

"...My Companion." *
"What the hell are you? Some kind of autonomous demon or imp?"
"Now listen here, Jugs--!"
"Oookay then! She can be a bit protective." *

"Dude! You control the Golem Girls, and you're the Jaguar Girl." *
"You make me sound like some kind of super villain just biding their time." *

"You may be necessary, but you're still evil! Do you hear me?!!"
"Remember, honey, you're still talking about yourself." *

"Sometimes the best way to help your friend, 'Me', when they're falling apart is to come to them when you are falling apart. * ...But they attacked me. My friends. The ones I trust, . . . Do you how frightening that was, Phix?!" *

"Monica shouldn't have seen that."
"Monica's a big girl. She knows what you are, you're a monster, so am I." *

"'In the dreams of children,
Magic runs wild,
And the monsters around,
Are brought by the child.'" *

"What does that mean?" *

"This is the first I've seen from her five-year-old self." *

"It means..." *

"I'll blow the solar system to shreds, just to get their attention!"
"Don't worry, little one. When she's that drunk, I doubt she could hit the big red button." *

"It means I'm my only enemy." *

(cue Lily Frost)

Hatters gonna hat.

Bathorys Daughter wrote:I'm not quite sure how this "burn her way out" thing would have worked. From what I see, the entire body is turned to ice, not just covered in an ice shell. If it were just a shell, then the ice melting in this last Monica-cicle incident would have been a good thing. How do you burn your way out when every cell in your body has been turned to ice? Seems like that would be suicide.

We just saw Monica operating without her body. She appears to have achived a state of being wher a corporial form is no longer nessesary to her continued existance. I think that, for Monica, her body has become a peripheral accessory that she can repair and possibly upgrade at will. To me, all the fire during her out of body experience was a side effect of M's soul repairing the damage done by Eyrale. Shelly says she should have died from the last freezing, but M's soul kept her body up and running, even if it was at reduced capacity. What I take away from this is that Monica's soul will do anything to keep her alive and well, up to, and including, rebuilding her body from scratch. Eyrale is nervous around Monica because she apparently knows what she is truly capable of. And deep down it scares the hell out of her. Eyrale sees M the same way M sees Phix right now. And why wouldn't she. Eyrale rubs shoulders with beings who could snuff her out with a thought and she clearly includes Monica in that category.

Monica has the power to recreate herself from nothing, to survive anything, and then direct her wrath and the wrath of the Chimera at what pissed her off. Monica is hella scary.

"Welcome to my side," indeed.

jwhouk wrote:I think we already know a couple of things as to why Shel would say how dangerous M is:

• She can poit at will (though not always well)
• She can read/speak glyph (which gives her power to deal with Lanthian artifacts, such as...)
• She has "control" of the golem girls - Bud, Brandi and Jin (though it's somewhat questionable about Jin)
• She has demons, as Pablo has already eloquently pointed out, "in her back pocket" (whose powers have shown to be catalysts for her)
• As a Jaguar Girl, she can take on a "spirit" form - literally, "become a ghost" (I think both Tina AND Jin might be interested in that fact), AND
• She has "the most common superpower" (I'll spare the TV tropes link)

On a completely and totally off-topic note: Jay-Em, what's up with your English keyboard? I'm getting a lot of letters that have accents and graves when reading your posts...

*shrugs* It's the way I write. Thinking and writing in one go.

"Elk vogeltje zingt zoals hij gebekt is."

Boxilar wrote: (snip) What I take away from this is that Monica's soul will do anything to keep her alive and well, up to, and including, rebuilding her body from scratch. Eyrale is nervous around Monica because she apparently knows what she is truly capable of. And deep down it scares the hell out of her. Eyrale sees M the same way M sees Phix right now. And why wouldn't she. Eyrale rubs shoulders with beings who could snuff her out with a thought and she clearly includes Monica in that category.

Monica has the power to recreate herself from nothing, to survive anything, and then direct her wrath and the wrath of the Chimera at what pissed her off. Monica is hella scary.

I like the way you think.

When we recognize something we've never noticed before, that's an epiphany. When we surpass a previously expected limit, that's self-transcendence. Monica is becoming aware of stuff she's never even imagined, and her ability to do it. Poit-ing was the first step on the path. She's becoming her own demigoddess!

Jay-Em wrote:

jwhouk wrote:I think we already know a couple of things as to why Shel would say how dangerous M is:

• She can poit at will (though not always well)
• She can read/speak glyph (which gives her power to deal with Lanthian artifacts, such as...)
• She has "control" of the golem girls - Bud, Brandi and Jin (though it's somewhat questionable about Jin)
• She has demons, as Pablo has already eloquently pointed out, "in her back pocket" (whose powers have shown to be catalysts for her)
• As a Jaguar Girl, she can take on a "spirit" form - literally, "become a ghost" (I think both Tina AND Jin might be interested in that fact), AND
• She has "the most common superpower" (I'll spare the TV tropes link)

On a completely and totally off-topic note: Jay-Em, what's up with your English keyboard? I'm getting a lot of letters that have accents and graves when reading your posts...

*shrugs* It's the way I write. Thinking and writing in one go.

"Elk vogeltje zingt zoals hij gebekt is."

Okay, now your keyboard is just spouting gibberish...

Atomic wrote: When we recognize something we've never noticed before, that's an epiphany. When we surpass a previously expected limit, that's self-transcendence. Monica is becoming aware of stuff she's never even imagined, and her ability to do it. Poit-ing was the first step on the path. She's becoming her own demigoddess!

You have hit the nail on the head my friend. Now we still have several more points to figure out.
1) Who made the 'Schrodinger's Blade' that is both in and not in M's head?
2) Does she have an ancestor that explains her being the 'Jaguar Girl'?
3) Is she truly immortal and what does the aforementioned "S Blade" have to do with that state?
4) are Dietzel and Oscar what they seem?

Dave wrote:

illiad wrote:

Dave wrote:I have to wonder whether Phix and Nudge may have come to an agreement that it was past time to stop hiding things from Shelly and Monica. Just what quiet places are being filled?

um, I dont think that has anything to do Shelly and Monica??? have you not had a great big argument with a friend you work with?? that is surely what that link is about.. you have to work with them, so you have to get back to understanding again....:/

Right.. but please consider just what the big brawl was all about? What triggered it? What sort of issues would Phix and Nudge have to work out between them, in order to work together again well?

The whole ugly mess happened precisely because of Monica and Shelly... because of what had been concealed from them, because of things they learned suddenly and in a terribly traumatic fashion, and because of what these revelations did to their trust-relationships with Phix! Phix lashed out at Nudge, because Nudge goaded and confronted her with the fact that her own "sphinx enigma" attitude of secrecy and manipulation had been a huge contributor to the blow-up.

You really can't separate the "Nudge and Phix rage-race" effect from the "We and others have been lying to Monica and Shelly, by omission at the very least, about who they and we really are" cause.

Once the adrenaline wore off, and Phix and Nudge were talking again on a mostly-friendly basis (as Nudge's expression seems to suggest) the question of "Well, what do we do now?" would surely be on both of their minds. "What are we going to tell Monica and Shelly, and who's going to say what to which of them?" would be a huge part of this...

phew, I did not see it that deeply... but then my ram is getting old and prone to failure...

... possibly even before the sticky issue of "Ok, who gets the mop and gets the last bits of sphinx-gore off of the flagstones before the place really starts to stink?"

surely, the library is self cleaning???

Bathorys Daughter wrote:I'm not quite sure how this "burn her way out" thing would have worked. From what I see, the entire body is turned to ice, not just covered in an ice shell. If it were just a shell, then the ice melting in this last Monica-cicle incident would have been a good thing. How do you burn your way out when every cell in your body has been turned to ice? Seems like that would be suicide.

Rather appropriate description considering Monica being a Phoenix. Death and Rebirth are part and parcel to their nature.

[quote="Mark N". . . Now we still have several more points to figure out.
1) Who made the 'Schrodinger's Blade' that is both in and not in M's head?
2) Does she have an ancestor that explains her being the 'Jaguar Girl'?
3) Is she truly immortal and what does the aforementioned "S Blade" have to do with that state?
4) are Dietzel and Oscar what they seem?[/quote]

Just want to ask:
5) Is a Schrodinger's Blade necessarily a Chekhov's Gun?

Jay-Em wrote:*shrugs* It's the way I write. Thinking and writing in one go.

"Elk vogeltje zingt zoals hij gebekt is."

Yeah, but... it actually takes hitting two keys to produce an accented character on a German keyboard - is that any different on Dutch ones?

(Yeah, we've got extra keys for three umlauted characters - äber selbst dänn ersetze ich döch nicht einfäch ä, ö ünd ü dürch Ümläute... *hust hust*)