Wapsi Square Forum

Also, I meant to say "Kath didn't react this in a good way" I'm not sure why I typed "same way", except I was rather angry at the time.

Reani wrote:Also, I meant to say "Kath didn't react this in a good way" I'm not sure why I typed "same way", except I was rather angry at the time.

When dealing with someone who can eviscerate you, or decapitate you, or otherwise disrupt the function of your life-sustaining flesh in a messy fashion, it is reasonably important to maintain dominance. If Atsali were a canine variety of paranormal, right now Katherine would have her in a submission roll and be growling in her face. Atsali was going off the deep end- with ordinary humans, yes, Katherine's actions were over the top. Atsali is a siren/incubus hybrid- exactly what she can do is not yet fully understood, but it is already proven that she can clock a shadow. Her hand-to-hand skills are vastly superior to my best in my younger years... I am ex- special forces. I could never decapitate with a round-house kick.

I honestly don't see where Kath did anything wrong. She reacted the same way any parent with an exceedingly violent child would... She grabbed her, wrapped her up so she couldn't lash out and used mommy voice to assert her authority. Kath seems to have that uncanny ability to calm Atsali and Castela in mid attack. Kath may not have all the answers, but she IS the boss. Kath didn't respond to Atsali's violence with violence in kind... she responded in self-defense and removed Atsali's ability to cause damage and gave Atsali a wake up call that she just effed up pretty badly...

Sgt. Howard wrote:

Reani wrote:Also, I meant to say "Kath didn't react this in a good way" I'm not sure why I typed "same way", except I was rather angry at the time.

When dealing with someone who can eviscerate you, or decapitate you, or otherwise disrupt the function of your life-sustaining flesh in a messy fashion, it is reasonably important to maintain dominance. If Atsali were a canine variety of paranormal, right now Katherine would have her in a submission roll and be growling in her face. Atsali was going off the deep end- with ordinary humans, yes, Katherine's actions were over the top. Atsali is a siren/incubus hybrid- exactly what she can do is not yet fully understood, but it is already proven that she can clock a shadow. Her hand-to-hand skills are vastly superior to my best in my younger years... I am ex- special forces. I could never decapitate with a round-house kick.

Yeah, and I totally get that, I was referring to the context of Nimrod's comment-- It did seem like Kath was reacting in a negative way, BUT that doesn't make her any less Sali's mother. I wasn't angry about the way Kath reacted to Sali, I understand that there are special, supernatural circumstances here, but I was angry at the quotation marks Nimrod put around the word daughter, because they invalidate her relationship to Kath, and other people invalidating their relationships is a big problem adoptive families face. People don't think how hurtful it is to imply an adopted kid's parents aren't valid when their biological parents aren't around in the first place. My anger made me type something weird : "I have to say I agree Kath didn't react in a same way" when I meant to say "good way" and my muscle memory went pffft due to my furious typing because I wanted to get to the important part.
(but I would do some research into dominance theory and alpha rolling in dogs-- that has actually been disproved for a long time and is actually rather damaging, but I digress.)

The post you replied to was meant to be a correction to the post right before it, since I don't think you can edit comments? But I'm a noob to this forum.

Thor wrote:

Akamar wrote: Having a hard time really following Atsali's issues... I never really HAD them, and I'm busty... though, admittedly not as busty as she is

A HUGE part of the problem is the time for adjustment. For humans, puberty is a process that takes years, and the Great Breastward Expansion from flat to full usually takes place over 5-8 years, little by little, which allows a person to come to terms with their new center of gravity (and center of attention). Atsali went from A-cup to H-cup, literally overnight. And even though she's a bright girl with the rational understanding that people are going to act differently to her, it's a lot to adjust to, all at once. At the same time she is trying to get used to the strengths and limitations of her new form, everyone starts treating her like she's a whole different person, and she has to understand and get used to that too.

Yes, by this point, she's had these enlarged parts for half a year, and is starting to get the hang of them, at least in her own bubble of personal space, but she was never very good at the interpersonal thing before, and now it is both different and more insistent. I can't blame her for losing patience with the whole thing.

Mine blossomed during pregnancy, and never left. I was 31, and a Mother for the first time, and had no clue how to carry myself(nor find anything that fit). My balance was awkward, my flashfire temper and low tolerance for crap, combined with low self worth made this transition as hectic as hers.
My Mother assured me they'd go away, but my Grandmother on my father's side apologised, and told me I got it from this side of the family.
My sister too, was thin, willowy, and small, then became a parent, and like Atsali, blossomed overnight.
She needs just the facts, not sympathy, but needs a bit of heavy handed parenting. I have held angry children(both my own, and nephews/nieces) in the same way when facing quick tempers. Keeps you safe, and them unable to do more than rage until they are sane and rational again.

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

No, really.

Children, even in their late teens, have problems telling adults things. The simple act of articulating the day to day problems seems impossible. Atsali should have told her mother about the pool incident when it happened, but was embarrassed, and couldn't bring her self to do it. She has waited until things have reached a level of tension in her, that she cannot keep it in, and now all it tumbles out in a jumble. This it a teen thing, keep in mind.

As adults, we spend a lot of our time pretending to each other that we have our crap together, because none of us do, but we are all convinced that we are the only ones that don't, so we fake it. So, when a kid does come to us with a problem, we have to try and remember back when we were kids, find that we have blocked all most all memories of that hellish time, and have to BS our way through to an answer. And that takes time.

But, the kid is clearly in panic mode, because they are at their last resort, a fate worse than death, talking to an adult. They need an answer, and they needed it last week, and they are going to die and stuff, so cough up the adult pixie dust that fixes all problems now!!!!

Reani wrote:

Sgt. Howard wrote:

Reani wrote:Also, I meant to say "Kath didn't react this in a good way" I'm not sure why I typed "same way", except I was rather angry at the time.

When dealing with someone who can eviscerate you, or decapitate you, or otherwise disrupt the function of your life-sustaining flesh in a messy fashion, it is reasonably important to maintain dominance. If Atsali were a canine variety of paranormal, right now Katherine would have her in a submission roll and be growling in her face. Atsali was going off the deep end- with ordinary humans, yes, Katherine's actions were over the top. Atsali is a siren/incubus hybrid- exactly what she can do is not yet fully understood, but it is already proven that she can clock a shadow. Her hand-to-hand skills are vastly superior to my best in my younger years... I am ex- special forces. I could never decapitate with a round-house kick.

Yeah, and I totally get that, I was referring to the context of Nimrod's comment-- It did seem like Kath was reacting in a negative way, BUT that doesn't make her any less Sali's mother. I wasn't angry about the way Kath reacted to Sali, I understand that there are special, supernatural circumstances here, but I was angry at the quotation marks Nimrod put around the word daughter, because they invalidate her relationship to Kath, and other people invalidating their relationships is a big problem adoptive families face. People don't think how hurtful it is to imply an adopted kid's parents aren't valid when their biological parents aren't around in the first place. My anger made me type something weird : "I have to say I agree Kath didn't react in a same way" when I meant to say "good way" and my muscle memory went pffft due to my furious typing because I wanted to get to the important part.
(but I would do some research into dominance theory and alpha rolling in dogs-- that has actually been disproved for a long time and is actually rather damaging, but I digress.)

The post you replied to was meant to be a correction to the post right before it, since I don't think you can edit comments? But I'm a noob to this forum.

Ah... very well, we are on the same wavelength there... as to 'daughter'... I was adopted at birth- one could call me a 'son' in the same fashion, but I never saw it that way. Mom and Dad were the two who raised me- I know no other.
Atsali is not mortal- she is not human- but she is Katherine's daughter, regardless. For me to suggest otherwise in the presence of either would be suicidal... and just plain stupid.

And yes, you can edit- as I am doing now. Once you sign in, look to the upper right of each of your posts and you have "edit" and "quote" side by side

Nimrod wrote:That is about the worst thing old spider eyes could have done...
So much for parenting classes...

Looks like Kath needs to grow up more than her associated "daughter".

I see now that THIS is the post I needed to address...
Nimrod, Atsali when startled or emotionally upset can take a raging grizzly bear and distribute it over a 1/4 acre parcel- as a combination of hamburger and bone meal. It will be too fast for her to think about it. When she goes feral (note the facial markings), one has to establish dominance or run. Mind you, she will be quite remorseful after the fact... but your human remains will not re-unite because of this.
My guess is that Katherine ("Old Spider Eyes" as you call her) is doing what her special parenting class has taught her- MY Mother never invoked the authority of an ancient deity to correct me, she used her hand... effectively, I might add.
AND REGARDING MY MOTHER- she suffered from endometriosis at a time when the condition was poorly understood. At a young age, she had a hysterectomy. I was adopted, as was my brother. To both of us, she was MOM- no quotation marks. Same for DAD.

I am an ex-Army Ranger. Mark (my brother) is a biker. At 61 and 63 respectively, we are still in better condition than most teenagers. We both have short tempers.

I would not suggest you question the validity of our parents in our presence.

Miss Annie (my ever-lovin') has this to add- Dr. Spock has already admitted that his book is nothing but hogwash. Both of my children (who, interestingly enough call the Old Sgt. DAD) have been raised with the traditional dose of corporal punishment and seem to have survived very nicely and are growing into fine, upstanding, productive members of society who have no interest in living on the dole. Our house is a happy one. I love my family and am very pleased with my children... and there were times I had to pull authority, especially on my first-born. The Old Sgt. backed me 110%. It works.
Just remember- we didn't have mass school shootings until a generation was raised on Dr. Spock's teachings...

Atomic wrote:Of course nobody has exactly her issues (M perhaps on the boob front)

Monica grew hers slowly - very slowly, well into adulthood, it isn't confirmed (as far as I can recall) that they've stopped.

Atsali grew hers literally overnight, during a very vulnerable stage of her teenage years.

And, Monica doesn't have to deal with the automatic reputation of a succubus.

So, no, not exactly the same issues. In fact, aside from the purely physical aspects that Lydia helps with, quite (not totally) different issues.

, but learning that other people have similar or parallel issues can let her learn and understand that she's 1. OK as she is, and 2. Not obliged to take crap from others.

Fortunately, that can be learned even from people with entirely different issues.

Aleister Crow wrote:Are we going to meet Ninhursag? And does she work as a councilor for parents of paranormal children?

She might be the one teaching the parenting classes Kath is taking.

Reani wrote:

Nimrod wrote:That is about the worst thing old spider eyes could have done...
So much for parenting classes...

Looks like Kath needs to grow up more than her associated "daughter".

Okay, I've been lurking. And I have to say that I agree that Kath didn't react to this in the same way. She's new to parenting and even experienced parents who've had their kids since they were babies are not perfect, Kath has been thrown a teenage child at a very volatile point in the kid's life. It reminds me of Hiro's aunt in Big Hero 6. "Should I have read a parenting manual? Probably!"

But I am going to say something very important. Very Very important. DO NOT PUT QUOTATIONS AROUND "DAUGHTER". Sali is Katherine's daughter. End. of. Story. No quotations, no doubts, no questions. Just because Katherine didn't pop her out doesn't mean she's not her mother. Because Katherine is TRYING. She may not be perfect but she is trying as much as any parent does. And you do NOT invalidate an adopted family's relationship. EVER. They are family. Kath, Pickle and Sali are a family. Even when Pickle is a brat. Even when Sali is irrational and violent (like in this case). Even when Kath makes a bad move (again, in this case). They are a family. They are as valid as any other family who birthed their children. Putting quotations marks around "daughter" or "mother" or "sister" or "father" is incredibly damaging and wrong. Don't do it.

Considering what Atsali had just done before Katherine faced her down, i can't see that she had much choice.

Atsali was about to go completely pyro, and she needed to be brought down fast and hard.

About referring to Atsali as Katherine's "daughter", with scare quotes - i agree 100% that Atsali IS Katherine's daughter, no qualifications needed.

Helen - who was fourteen when i met her mother and is now thirty-one - is, as far as i'm concerned, my daughter ... and Maggie and Natalie are absolutely my granddaughters.

And anyone who tries to claim otherwise better be ready to deal with one rather large and unhappy Bohemian/Scots/Irish grandfather.

Sgt. Howard wrote:When dealing with someone who can eviscerate you, or decapitate you, or otherwise disrupt the function of your life-sustaining flesh in a messy fashion, it is reasonably important to maintain dominance. If Atsali were a canine variety of paranormal, right now Katherine would have her in a submission roll and be growling in her face. Atsali was going off the deep end- with ordinary humans, yes, Katherine's actions were over the top. Atsali is a siren/incubus hybrid- exactly what she can do is not yet fully understood, but it is already proven that she can clock a shadow. Her hand-to-hand skills are vastly superior to my best in my younger years... I am ex- special forces. I could never decapitate with a round-house kick.

And even before Atsali got her apparent upgrade (presumably with puberty) there was no doubt that when she was full birdy she could disembowel an ordinary human with one foot - raptor-type talons on a leg an ostrich would thin was sexy are a scary combination.

Warrl wrote:

Atomic wrote:Of course nobody has exactly her issues (M perhaps on the boob front)

Monica grew hers slowly - very slowly, well into adulthood, it isn't confirmed (as far as I can recall) that they've stopped.

Actually, as i recall, Monica grew noticeably large boobs when she was rather younger than Atsali.

AnotherFairportfan wrote:

Warrl wrote:

Atomic wrote:Of course nobody has exactly her issues (M perhaps on the boob front)

Monica grew hers slowly - very slowly, well into adulthood, it isn't confirmed (as far as I can recall) that they've stopped.

Actually, as i recall, Monica grew noticeably large boobs when she was rather younger than Atsali.

IIRC Monica was wearing a bigger bra than her teacher in sixth grade.

Sgt. Howard wrote:... uh... actually... this old phart of a Luddite was asking "How does a computer inept individual as myself create a blue lettered link that allows others to left click on said link and obtain instant passage to something that the aforementioned individual thought interesting/pertinent/whatever?"

Oops. Sorry... I completely mis-read your question.

What I usually do, when I'm working at a laptop or desktop, is to browse the archive in one tab (or window) and the forum in another. In order to link off to a page in the archive (or anyplace else) I

• Add text to the Forum posting, with however I want the link to appear
• Select that text
• Hit the "URL" button. This adds tags at the beginning and end of the text ("url" and "/url")
• Switch to the other tab, select the text for the page's URL from the URL bar, and Copy
• Switch back to the Forum tab. Edit the "url" tag by adding an "=" and then pasting in the text of the link
• Hit Preview to see how it looks

jeffepp wrote:

lake_wrangler wrote:

WordNet Search wrote:Ninkhursag: the great mother goddess; worshipped also as Aruru and Mama and Nintu

So, she literally invoked "Mommy Power".

Not for the first time, either. If only EVERY parenting course taught this sort of thing!!

This arc has been really interesting so far! I'm going to have to come down on the side of Katherine in this debate. Swearing and yelling at your mother is one sure way of getting grounded big time and like some notable people have said, Atsali can be extremely dangerous so shutting down what amounted to a rage tizzy before it could get going was a necessary move.

I feel for Atsali's exasperation and her predicament, but she can't control how people think about her only how they act; it's why they have laws and there are sexual harassment lawsuits. No, I don't know how that would work out in the paranormal world.

"Just remember, you have an aunt who can flatten a school." <3

AnotherFairportfan wrote:

scantrontb wrote:

AnotherFairportfan wrote: Also Roger Ramius Chang McClintock's squeeze.

or the the Armageddon Inheritance series by David Weber... though he spelled it Ninhursag there.

By a strange coincidence, my name is Mike Weber and i have a younger brother named David and a friend named Toni Weisskopf, publisher at Baen Books.

That said, i have never managed to get through those books; Roger McClintock is from the "March" books he collaborated with John Ringo on.

oh, yeah, i already knew you were his brother, we posted about it here a looong time ago... ask him for any hints if he's ever gonna write a fourth book to that series for me would you? ... as for the "March to the Stars" series. Yep, that's a great set as well, I've finished the first three and I've got the last one but it's on my "to read" shelf patiently waiting for me to get a "Round Tuit"... I've kinda gotten sucked in to the "InCryptid" series by Seanan McGuire among others...

oldmanmickey wrote:

lake_wrangler wrote:

oldmanmickey wrote:My mother used to invoke that power as well. Its how a 5'1 110 lb woman could make a 6'2 220 lb GI quake in his shoes

My mom never really managed, that I can remember... or at least, not since I first reached beyond 10 yrs old...

(When I was 12, she tried to smack me with a wooden spoon, on the arm... the spoon broke, and I hardly felt it... Her authority over me - or my sense/opinion of it - went downhill, from there...)

hers never broke, nor my grandmothers nor my greatgrandmothers.

Ahhh, the dreaded paddle. Had holes in it, so it would sting more. Gained a +50 in Fear when wielded by a tiny woman with a big "mean momma's voice." Once wielded by BJ the Grand, mother of mothers. Said to have whistled mid-swing during great battles.