Wapsi Square Forum

Bookworm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:26 pm

GlytchMeister wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:06 pm See also: Bechdel Test.

Except that test is ludicrous, as almost any normal conversation between two (or more) women will end up with men as part of the conversation in some form or another.

AnotherFairportfan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:26 am

Bookworm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:26 pm

GlytchMeister wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:06 pm See also: Bechdel Test.

Except that test is ludicrous, as almost any normal conversation between two (or more) women will end up with men as part of the conversation in some form or another.

The Bechdel Test doesn't require that the women NEVER talk about men - just that men are not ALL they talk about.

It asks whether a work features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.

Bookworm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:26 pm

GlytchMeister wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:06 pm See also: Bechdel Test.

Except that test is ludicrous, as almost any normal conversation between two (or more) women will end up with men as part of the conversation in some form or another.

Warrl wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:25 pm Overall I suspect that gay men are slightly over-represented, and gay women under-represented. I have no data to back up that suspicion though.

My gripe is that it seems to be all-or-nothing most of the time - in any given universe odds are that either pretty much everyone age 14-30 is gay, or nobody is. And bisexual, poly, and transgender or genderfluid is extremely rare except in fiction about being in one of those categories.

(Yes there are exceptions - they aren't exactly scarce. But in my observation most fiction, even most recent fiction, still fits that description.)

Opus the Poet wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:58 pm

Warrl wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:25 pm Overall I suspect that gay men are slightly over-represented, and gay women under-represented. I have no data to back up that suspicion though.

My gripe is that it seems to be all-or-nothing most of the time - in any given universe odds are that either pretty much everyone age 14-30 is gay, or nobody is. And bisexual, poly, and transgender or genderfluid is extremely rare except in fiction about being in one of those categories.

(Yes there are exceptions - they aren't exactly scarce. But in my observation most fiction, even most recent fiction, still fits that description.)

Then my church is a work of fiction? We have two active transgender members, scads of genderqueer (OK 2 out of about 40) uncountable numbers of lesbians, our gay men don't advertise but we know they are there, several poly members in the past but only 1 now, and the Venn diagram has tons of overlap.

Or maybe it's just my life that's a work of fiction, given the number of times I have died and come back. Maybe I'm a comic book character?

Bookworm wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:02 pm

AnotherFairportfan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:26 am

Bookworm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:26 pm
Except that test is ludicrous, as almost any normal conversation between two (or more) women will end up with men as part of the conversation in some form or another.

The Bechdel Test doesn't require that the women NEVER talk about men - just that men are not ALL they talk about.

It asks whether a work features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.

The implication is that they must carry on at least one conversation that doesn't involve men. When my wife and her friends are talking, there's _always_ something about men in there.

AnotherFairportfan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:52 pm

Bookworm wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:02 pm

AnotherFairportfan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:26 am
The Bechdel Test doesn't require that the women NEVER talk about men - just that men are not ALL they talk about.

It asks whether a work features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.

The implication is that they must carry on at least one conversation that doesn't involve men. When my wife and her friends are talking, there's _always_ something about men in there.

No - the implication that the conversation isn't exclusively or primarily about men: it allows including men as a secondary topic.

Bookworm wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:11 pm

Opus the Poet wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:58 pm

Warrl wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:25 pm Overall I suspect that gay men are slightly over-represented, and gay women under-represented. I have no data to back up that suspicion though.

My gripe is that it seems to be all-or-nothing most of the time - in any given universe odds are that either pretty much everyone age 14-30 is gay, or nobody is. And bisexual, poly, and transgender or genderfluid is extremely rare except in fiction about being in one of those categories.

(Yes there are exceptions - they aren't exactly scarce. But in my observation most fiction, even most recent fiction, still fits that description.)

Then my church is a work of fiction? We have two active transgender members, scads of genderqueer (OK 2 out of about 40) uncountable numbers of lesbians, our gay men don't advertise but we know they are there, several poly members in the past but only 1 now, and the Venn diagram has tons of overlap.

Or maybe it's just my life that's a work of fiction, given the number of times I have died and come back. Maybe I'm a comic book character?

Universalist Unitarian?

Opus the Poet wrote: ↑Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:26 pm

Bookworm wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:11 pm

Opus the Poet wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:58 pm

Then my church is a work of fiction? We have two active transgender members, scads of genderqueer (OK 2 out of about 40) uncountable numbers of lesbians, our gay men don't advertise but we know they are there, several poly members in the past but only 1 now, and the Venn diagram has tons of overlap.

Or maybe it's just my life that's a work of fiction, given the number of times I have died and come back. Maybe I'm a comic book character?

Universalist Unitarian?

Got it in one!