Wapsi Square Forum

chalcara wrote:What I worry more is what Shelly said about our favourite gorgon, because it doesn't cast a good light on her.

If that last freeze would really have killed someone without special powers, then Euralye (sp?) was either in on the manipulation, has a severe lack of selfcontrol or (what I hope) she's simply criminally careless around Monica. Whatever it is, I hope she gets it under control.

I would say that Euryale was probably not in on any manipulation. Her concern for M after the last freeze was pretty clear...and if it was all an act to manipulate...well our heroine was not exactly in any state to notice the act, was she? I think Euryale was truly worried about melting M.

That's not to say that she wasn't at least somewhat aware of Monica's nature as Jaguar Girl. I'm betting she's a little more "herself" around M because she knows M at least can't be easily killed. That might explain the look on her face when Bud was tearing into her. It might have been a "but M's a supernatural like us...I thought we were okay to be ourselves together.." kind of look. After all, Bud didn't really seem to know what was going on with M (she just seemed to be trusting Shelly to understand it).

chalcara wrote:Actually, Shelly still reads smug as fuck to me and not really caring at all. More "neener,neener, look what I know".

She reads more as amused than smug here to me...but then I'm exceptionally fond of Shelly as a character, so I might be inclined to read her expressions and reactions more positively than someone who isn't as fond of her.

EDIT: You know, I'm glad we're learning where M's self-preservation-poit comes from, but I kind of wish that the explanation was coming from Brandi. Her command of the English language would make it so much easier to understand. Shelly's explanation took me a couple of re-reads.

Just had a disquieting thought.

There's immortality, and then there's agelessness. Shelly may now have a very long lifespan, as a result of her titan/sphinx heritage... and if so this implies that she will age slowly.

Monica has some sort of "won't die" juju, it seems, due at least in part to the key-spike she was brainstabbed with, and perhaps partially due to her own innate powers now being awakened. However, "cannot die" doesn't necessarily imply slow aging and sustained vigor. Monica has recently had a difficult confrontation with her own poor physical condition due in part to getting older... what if this continues and gets worse, but her "cannot die" situation continues indefinitely?

At best she might be like Bilbo... feeling "stretched thin, like butter scraped over too much bread". At worst, she might end up spending eons hobbling around as an ancient crone, or like Diane Duane's Scorned Lover who chose a selfish immortality and who cannot now die no matter how much he wishes it.

One hopes that Monica's new power-juju comes equipped with better balance than these grim scenarios suggest!

First off I appologise for typos and misspellings I'm on a phone. Eurale the gorgon, is a fan of Monica. She knows M is not a normal human and let's her guard down around her is the way I think about it. I think around normal humans she never lets her guard down and never ices anyone by mistake. As far as Shelly being "mean" to M remember Shelly is a sphinx and she probably heard M say Shelly is a sphinx and not her friend. I don't think it bothered Shelly too much, but it must have stung a bit. Friends harrass and tease each other in good fun all the time without it being serious. I just think Shelly is enjoying the situation a bit like any good friend would, knowing her friend really isnt hurt and the joke is on her this time and not Shelly. Also it is funny that M who is adverse to the paranormal is now a veritable incarnation of it. Did I mentio I hate doing this on a phone. .. Cause I do!

Stigmartyr762 wrote:I love that "I gonna smack you." look on Monica's face as Shelly esplains what's happened. LOL

+1

Julie wrote:

chalcara wrote:What I worry more is what Shelly said about our favourite gorgon, because it doesn't cast a good light on her.

If that last freeze would really have killed someone without special powers, then Euralye (sp?) was either in on the manipulation, has a severe lack of selfcontrol or (what I hope) she's simply criminally careless around Monica. Whatever it is, I hope she gets it under control.

I would say that Euryale was probably not in on any manipulation. Her concern for M after the last freeze was pretty clear...and if it was all an act to manipulate...well our heroine was not exactly in any state to notice the act, was she? I think Euryale was truly worried about melting M.

That's not to say that she wasn't at least somewhat aware of Monica's nature as Jaguar Girl. I'm betting she's a little more "herself" around M because she knows M at least can't be easily killed. That might explain the look on her face when Bud was tearing into her. It might have been a "but M's a supernatural like us...I thought we were okay to be ourselves together.." kind of look. After all, Bud didn't really seem to know what was going on with M (she just seemed to be trusting Shelly to understand it).

Euryale is a Monica fangirl (we met almost a year ago in non-wapsi time). She puts her on a pedistal, and in some respects, idolizes her. Her reactions to Monica have been consistently extra-emotional, ergo loss of normal control when startled/surprised by Monica.

Julie wrote:

chalcara wrote:Actually, Shelly still reads smug as fuck to me and not really caring at all. More "neener,neener, look what I know".

She reads more as amused than smug here to me...but then I'm exceptionally fond of Shelly as a character, so I might be inclined to read her expressions and reactions more positively than someone who isn't as fond of her.

EDIT: You know, I'm glad we're learning where M's self-preservation-poit comes from, but I kind of wish that the explanation was coming from Brandi. Her command of the English language would make it so much easier to understand. Shelly's explanation took me a couple of re-reads.

I think Shelly is and has always been Shelly. Her character has not changed significantly, only gained experience. She's been through as much as any other character, but has a resilience that can come off as unsympathetic. There are people in life who will cry about a scraped knee/broken bone/near death experience and people who will get up without a second though and continue on what they were doing, all the time wondering why the first person is even crying. This makes a friendship between these two types difficult. The senstive memeber feels like their difficulties/expereiecnes are unappreciated or trivialized. The resiliant member grows easily annoyed/impatient with a focus on difficulties over a focus pushing forward. Moments of sensitivity in the resilient seem fleeting and almost insincere to the sensitive, but that's just an affect of how quickly they recover.

1. Shelly now remembers everything that happened in the time forest, while the others only remember that last loop of the calendar--so she can't help but be a little condescending.
2. We are starting to see how Monica poited out of the way of bullets, etc.
3. The "spike" in her head isn't really in her actual head...but it is "somewhere" or more likely "some when".
4. We have Shelly's back story and how she came to be, why she is sphinx, etc. Now it is time to find out just who Monica is and where she came from.
Things just keep getting curiouser and curiouser .

Jay-Em wrote:Oh dear. The confusion is getting worse by the day.

The confusion-corner is getting overcrowded too. I guess it's time for "Confusion-Ville" Where Wapsi-readers set-up tents, and ponder their collective bafflement.

Well. all in good time, I guess. There wíll be (some sort) of coherent explanation (I only hope I am intellectually capable enough to grasp it....)

Not to worry--the Confusion Corner is sufficiently mutiply-connected and high-dimensional (in M.C.Escher's sort of way) that there's room for all who need to use it.

Dave wrote:Just had a disquieting thought.

There's immortality, and then there's agelessness. Shelly may now have a very long lifespan, as a result of her titan/sphinx heritage... and if so this implies that she will age slowly.

Monica has some sort of "won't die" juju, it seems, due at least in part to the key-spike she was brainstabbed with, and perhaps partially due to her own innate powers now being awakened. However, "cannot die" doesn't necessarily imply slow aging and sustained vigor. Monica has recently had a difficult confrontation with her own poor physical condition due in part to getting older... what if this continues and gets worse, but her "cannot die" situation continues indefinitely?

At best she might be like Bilbo... feeling "stretched thin, like butter scraped over too much bread". At worst, she might end up spending eons hobbling around as an ancient crone, or like Diane Duane's Scorned Lover who chose a selfish immortality and who cannot now die no matter how much he wishes it.

One hopes that Monica's new power-juju comes equipped with better balance than these grim scenarios suggest!

These sort of questions were, I believe, also explored in Greek Mythology. Well, some of them.

Tithonus was granted eternal life but not eternal youth.

Endymion, lover of Selene (Titan of the Moon), was granted eternal sleep so as never to age or die

Julie wrote:You know, I'm glad we're learning where M's self-preservation-poit comes from...

Ah, but are we yet? Monica's "exploding islands" self-preservation poits might be attributed to the spike in her head, but IIRC her first demonstration of this power was her poiting away of the bullets being fired at her... and this occurred well before Shelly spiked her during the CM shutdown.

So, either the key-spike was operating very early (before "installation") and when not even in Monica's possession, or it's acausal, or Monica's own poiting powers were able to act without the spike's assistance/control.

bmonk wrote:

Jay-Em wrote:Oh dear. The confusion is getting worse by the day.

The confusion-corner is getting overcrowded too. I guess it's time for "Confusion-Ville" Where Wapsi-readers set-up tents, and ponder their collective bafflement.

Well. all in good time, I guess. There wíll be (some sort) of coherent explanation (I only hope I am intellectually capable enough to grasp it....)

Not to worry--the Confusion Corner is sufficiently multiply-connected and high-dimensional (in M.C.Escher's sort of way) that there's room for all who need to use it.

Yeah, but the weather can be lousy. Bring good tents and plenty of dry socks with you. Remember, "Confusion rains".

(drops a brand-new Gore-tex jacket in the Pun Jar).

Actually it reads to me like Shelly picked up some information since Euryale last flash-froze M that she's just now had the opportunity to impart to M, because the way she reacted at the Cafe U-296 is not consistent with the knowledge she's displaying now. Whoops I just looked back and the one freaking out was Bud, Shelly was cool but slightly amused by the situation. So something Shelly learned between the 'Splody-Head reveal to M and the trip to the Cafe has drastically altered her perspective and thus her reactions.

So, in this strip, Shelly is explaining to Monica the health benefits of being stabbed in the head. Lovely.

First off, I was right, and everyone going on about how "too many freezes is dangerous/can trigger something" was wrong. As Shelly confirms, the heat would have melted anyone and killed them. Just what Euryale was yelling about. And she should know (yes, she may not have frozen anyone three times, but I'm sure as heck she saw people melt)

</gloating>

Then, Shelly's "welcome to my side". Which side is that? The "having-your-world-pulled-out-from-under-you-and-turned-upside-down" side. Like M, who now learns she's not entirely human, so did Shel.

And the spike is, if I'm reading this right, not the cause of this survival instinct. Shel doesn't say "because of that spike". The spike does something different. It won't let her die. Her self-preservation is inherent, pre-spike. That's the way I read what Shel says.

bmonk wrote:

Dave wrote:Just had a disquieting thought.

There's immortality, and then there's agelessness. Shelly may now have a very long lifespan, as a result of her titan/sphinx heritage... and if so this implies that she will age slowly.

Monica has some sort of "won't die" juju, it seems, due at least in part to the key-spike she was brainstabbed with, and perhaps partially due to her own innate powers now being awakened. However, "cannot die" doesn't necessarily imply slow aging and sustained vigor. Monica has recently had a difficult confrontation with her own poor physical condition due in part to getting older... what if this continues and gets worse, but her "cannot die" situation continues indefinitely?

These sort of questions were, I believe, also explored in Greek Mythology. Well, some of them.

Tithonus was granted eternal life but not eternal youth.

(Emphases mine.)

The other ancient story like Tithonus was the Cumaean Sibyl who accepted nigh-eternal life as a wish from Apollo in exchange or sleeping with him, but then she refused to go through with it; so he withheld the eternal youth part. That's arguably asking for it, at least the way Ovid tells it.

Tithonus, though, seems to have been d!cked around on Zeus' whim. His Titan lover Eos asked for him to be given eternal life, and Zeus granted that, but not eternal youth. This has always struck me as a major d!ck move, especially as Eos was one of the Titans that pledged loyalty to him at the time of the Titan War, like Styx. Styx (and her kids Bia, Nike, Kratos and Zelus) got big honors, and Eos... seems to have been the butt of cruelty for its own sake. Certainly Tithonus seemed to have done nothing wrong beyond accidentally catching the eye of a Titan.

Monica's body is plainly not self-maintaining its youth, not even after the Calendar ritual. So yes, I think she is in direct danger of suffering a fate like Tithonus.

Eos (and Apollo and Tezcatlipoca) has the Sun as part of her aspect. If the blade is a part of the Calendar that Maya broke off the Machine to disrupt it in AD 562, then passing it through Monica's doorway and ejecting the rest of the Calendar into the Sun means...

Monica is a gateway to the Sun.

Carpe diem.

Don't blame Euryale for the whole freeze thing. One thing peole would learn about my mom was, you don't try to surprise her by jumping out at her. She was likely to punch you right in the face without thinking. Quit worrying the reaction, and think about the precedent. Each time, Monica got the drop on her in some way, and caused the reaction.

As for Shelly, she had to wait for these teaching moments to occur. Monica is still somewhat new to a world she was prone to not seeing, because she didn't (want to?) believe in it. Again, it's just a matter of penetrating the several layers before comprehension is achieved. Shelly has been on the other end of that, and now gets to be the one to explain, as Monica said previously.

It seems that getting a key in her head has made her not just the Lock, but maybe a bigger Key. And being that Key means that she can't get dealt out yet. She's probably the only one qualified to hold the job.

Nimrod wrote:stuff

scoff scoff

okay color me confuzzled the spike is not really in her head, and she could have melted out her self of the ice with out killing her self okay.... does that mean what i think it means that we are dealing with monica on her way to be a demigod or sorts since demigods can die when they are human and ascend to true godhood after they die..


oh dear i think if monica was to actually die i think the world would be in trouble,

a. no controller of the remaining golems.

B. when or if a new demon door way opens they would have to close it again{ since Monica's demon doorway is closed}

c. Shelly is acting to smug, and out of character which normally is reserved for monica{ yes, yes i know sage and all that but that cheating when she starts to act like monica}

so what i want to know if the darn blade is not in Monica's head and is acting like anchor to her body then what is keeping her from forcing out the blade and forcing her to acknowledge that the blade is even not there to begin with?

is it fail safe device that keeps the demon door way closed, as per say the blade is more of forget the door ever existed in you thing?

Self-preservation definitely came before the spike, yes. However, the spike in her head gives M an added "bonus" - she can preserve her soul as well.

In essence, unless the spike is removed from her (however THAT could be done, and I suspect that might not be able to be done), her spirit cannot "permanently" leave her body.

What it can do, however, is leave to communicate with dead souls. Hmm, I wonder if that would be of any use to anyone....

Fairportfan wrote:scoff scoff

Kinda hard to tell just who you're scoffing at, FF, since you didn't quote and since today's comments are ranging all over the map.

Yamara wrote:Carpe diem.

Is that a fish per day?

[drops a fishing net into the pun jar]
(Actually, I know that means "Seize the day.")

Sphinx-Napped: I think you need to read the archives again... or even todays page!

shelly said 'that spike in your head, thats not really in your head, wont let you die'..
just like the golem girls, aren't really girls, just clay models...
its the magic that makes them *seem* to be totally real, even to x-ray machines, etc....
and you find that they seem to be just 'portals'
- I could not find the strip, where buds 'hatch' opens, and a chef calls to tepoz,
and the drunk girls he has made appear 'have you got the stuff???'
and then some one comes knocking, so they ALL have to pile into bud, so she can answer... may not be bud, my memory is awful... :/


AFAICS monica is channeling jins mom, so she can be the fourth light...
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/madetheconnection/

and then they can get m's demons under conrol..
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/follow-some-scri/

and try and fix the calendar machine....
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/hold-on/

and also close 'their doorway'(monica), while demons say that she cannot be killed..
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/your-precious-doorway/

that and the following were the best!!

... and If I'm wrong, you will tell me, huh????