The Reason I Called You 2016-08-25

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Gyrrakavian
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Re: The Reason I Called You 2016-08-25

Post by Gyrrakavian »

Dave wrote:
Gyrrakavian wrote:I don't suppose anyone has a matter to energy conversion equation handy?
According to a couple of web pages that have done the calculation, one gram of mass converted entirely to energy releases the equivalent of 21.5 kilotons of TNT. Think "Hiroshima-class explosion".

None of the ZOT rock disintegrations have done anything nearly of that order (unless the energy was somehow channeled away into hyperspace). Even beaming the energy away like a laser would have resulted in a truly violent "side flash" from the air turning to plasma... much more than has been depicted, I think.

So, whatever trick Pickle is using, I don't think it's one of total conversion.
DAMN! I knew there'd be a fair bit of energy but unholy crap!

I was asking because a homebrew item I'm working on converts mass to magical energy. Sounds like the thing would overload with energy A LOT faster than I was thinking.
"Occam's razor is a fine thing, but the universe is a Rube-Goldberg machine."
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Dave
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Re: The Reason I Called You 2016-08-25

Post by Dave »

Gyrrakavian wrote:DAMN! I knew there'd be a fair bit of energy but unholy crap!

I was asking because a homebrew item I'm working on converts mass to magical energy. Sounds like the thing would overload with energy A LOT faster than I was thinking.
Yup. One current-version penny, converted to energy, is around 50 kT equivalent. Two ounces of matter, converted, would be around a megaton-equivalent. There's a lot of energy bound up in matter.

The only reason we're alive at all is that it takes extreme conditions to trigger the release of even a tiny fraction of the mass-energy into radiant form. If that weren't the case, we'd have a whole different understanding of the metaphor of "When the penny drops..."
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illiad
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Re: The Reason I Called You 2016-08-25

Post by illiad »

Dave wrote:
Gyrrakavian wrote:DAMN! I knew there'd be a fair bit of energy but unholy crap!

I was asking because a homebrew item I'm working on converts mass to magical energy. Sounds like the thing would overload with energy A LOT faster than I was thinking.
Yup. One current-version penny, converted to energy, is around 50 kT equivalent. Two ounces of matter, converted, would be around a megaton-equivalent. There's a lot of energy bound up in matter.

The only reason we're alive at all is that it takes extreme conditions to trigger the release of even a tiny fraction of the mass-energy into radiant form. If that weren't the case, we'd have a whole different understanding of the metaphor of "When the penny drops..."
hey, I dont know properly, but even an Atom bomb does not release the energy 'immediately'(it needs to build up a chain reaction ), and NOT even 'efficiently! ...
'Fatman' the first Atomic bomb, was 3 metres long, and weighed 4,670 kg - It contained 6.2 kg of Plutonium... giving a blast of 21KT ... how small is a penny???? :roll:

say a penny is 3g, that is 2000 times smaller!!
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Dave
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Re: The Reason I Called You 2016-08-25

Post by Dave »

illiad wrote: hey, I dont know properly, but even an Atom bomb does not release the energy 'immediately'(it needs to build up a chain reaction ), and NOT even 'efficiently! ...
Correct. The chain reaction in an atomic bomb is typically measured in "shakes" (1 shake = 10 nanoseconds = .01 microsecond). Each fission step in the reaction (fissile nucleus captures a neutron, goes unstable, splits, and shoots out several other neutrons) takes approximately 1 shake. The total chain reaction for an A-bomb takes somewhere on the order of 50-100 shakes.

So, the actual fission reaction (the matter-to-energy stage) is over in about a millionth of a second. Due to the geometric build-up in the number of atoms which are splitting in each step, most of the energy release comes at the end, during the last few doublings. By the time the fission cascade ends, the very first gamma rays emitted from the core are only a few hundred yards down the block, and the strongest part of the energy pulse hasn't gone even that far. I was more than a bit surprised to learn it was that fast!

The explosion that we see, is all the result of energy that's already been released (very suddenly) being propagated outwards, a lot more slowly.
'Fatman' the first Atomic bomb, was 3 metres long, and weighed 4,670 kg - It contained 6.2 kg of Plutonium... giving a blast of 21KT ... how small is a penny???? :roll:
Also correct. Simple FatMan-type fission weapons aren't very efficient. 6200 grams of plutonium, only about 17% of it actually underwent fission, and the actual amount of mass lost during the fission was only around 600 milligrams - so it was about 0.1% efficient at turning its fissile mass into energy. Fat Man lost *less* than a penny's worth of mass when it went kaboom... all the rest turned into plasma and gas and particles, and ended up as fallout.

Modern "fusion-boosted" fission weapons are much more efficient - much higher yields for a given amount of plutonium. Most modern "H-bombs" generate only a small amount of energy from the fusion of hydrogen; the fusing hydrogen (and lithium) releases a big blast of neutrons, which trigger additional fission in the plutonium and/or uranium.

Total conversion (matter/antimatter annihilation) can be anywhere up to 100% efficient, depending on how thoroughly you can mix the materials (and, as Scotty said in great anguish, "Ye canna' mix matter and anti-matter cold!". Not and survive, at least, in the Trek universe).

And what of Lazarus? Did he ever marry Naomi?
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Re: The Reason I Called You 2016-08-25

Post by Typeminer »

Dave wrote:And what of Lazarus? Did he ever marry Naomi?
Maybe. He lived long, and he did get around. :)
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AnotherFairportfan
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Re: The Reason I Called You 2016-08-25

Post by AnotherFairportfan »

Actually, "Fat Man" was the second, Nagasaki, bomb. The first, "Little Boy" was a gun-type enriched-uranium device.
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illiad
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Re: The Reason I Called You 2016-08-25

Post by illiad »

AnotherFairportfan wrote:Actually, "Fat Man" was the second, Nagasaki, bomb. The first, "Little Boy" was a gun-type enriched-uranium device.
well the intro to the a-bomb article was vague, and didn't link to 'Little Boy' .. no time to waste, we were talking about 'total energy conversion of a penny', only ... :)
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AnotherFairportfan
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Re: The Reason I Called You 2016-08-25

Post by AnotherFairportfan »

illiad wrote:
AnotherFairportfan wrote:Actually, "Fat Man" was the second, Nagasaki, bomb. The first, "Little Boy" was a gun-type enriched-uranium device.
well the intro to the a-bomb article was vague, and didn't link to 'Little Boy' .. no time to waste, we were talking about 'total energy conversion of a penny', only ... :)
I was replying to Dave, wbo i expected to know that.
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