Wapsi Square Forum

Now I have...

Revised URL that allows you to pull up the correct street view.

Sgt. Howard wrote:
Al, Joe, Glytch... she's got us figured out...

Speak for yourself - that's a typical weekend here at Casa Richer when the weather is warm enough. Plasma Cutters are FUN.

Old-school oxy-acetylene is fun too, but a lot more likely to flash back on heavy plate.

Spa - what is this spa you speak of?

jwhouk wrote:

AmriloJim wrote:JW, your link appears to be broken, but I was able to extract the geocode... try this one.

dmctexas.jpg

...You didn't click on the doors, did you?

Not until you mentioned it, no... I had merely browsed through the photos at the bottom of the screen...

I had forgotten that for some places, Google Street View goes inside buildings... like one tourist attraction I had looked at, when I was planning my bike trip to Nova Scotia (which I did last summer...)

"Walking" through the DeLorean warehouse, I happened to spot a crate labelled "Lucas"...

lake_wrangler wrote: "Walking" through the DeLorean warehouse, I happened to spot a crate labelled "Lucas"...

Yep, you will at that. Believe the PRV engine used some Lucas accessories, and most of the switches and electrical items were Prince Of Darkness as well - unfortunately when Lucas was at its nadir of quality. Bosch equivalents are available for most of it and any DMC-12 I had to associate with would get them.

DinkyInky wrote:Oooh, nothing sexier than a guy in Carhartts covered in various machine fluids.

Except maybe one who's also talking nerdy engineering science stuff and gaming stuff...

*sighs dreamily*

*raises eyebrow* Well, that certainly bodes well for me.

Nice to see we think strolling through a Humble warehouse trumps the current fare on the Tiffany Network.

Hey, now, let's not get carried away with things there...

(EDIT: Had to include the commentary above in the narrative, sorry... okay, NOT sorry...)

---

Wayne showed Ari the parts supply depot in the back of the shop - she recognized a lot of the various boxes and parts she'd seen in the basement, and a few that she hadn't.

Walking through the warehouse, Ari spotted a crate labelled "Lucas". She blanched at the sight, which took Wynne off guard until she pointed it out.

"Al refers to them as the 'Prince of Darkness'," she said. This engendered a chuckle from Stephen.

"Yep, the PRV engine used some Lucas accessories, and most of the switches and electrical items were theirs as well. Unfortunately, it was also when Lucas was at its nadir of quality. No worries, though – we stock Bosch equivalents for most of it. And, any DMC-12 that Al would want to associate with would get them."

Ari contemplated the extra work that was slowly registering in her brain as they walked past a crate that said something about hovercraft conversion.

"I'm just wondering why Buck's dad had them ship the car over in pieces instead of as a single car?" she asked aloud as they returned to the service bay area.

"From what we can tell, it was probably because of the early reports of quality control issues at the Dunmurry plant," Wayne replied with a bit of a burr. "The other blokes at the plant were basically brand new to the concept of buildin' an automobile. Rock prol'y thought his boys over in his plant could do a better job." He opened the gate between the warehouse and the service area. "That and the rumor that'd been buildin' about John wantin' to get a better engine in the thing. He was gettin' desperate enough to talk ta tractor makers, seems."

Ari made a face. "AHI's engines aren't that bad," she said. "My boss has one in his old Land Rover ambulance."

"Ah, but that's a diesel," Wayne pointed out. "Al's regaled me about his beloved Clara before. The 110 has a pretty universal engine mount. These babies..." He waved his hand across at the dozen DMC-12's that were in various states of repair in the shop. "These - are far from that."

"Well, I wouldn't expect it to beat out my GT, that's for sure." She looked at one of the cars sitting next to the receiving area. "I've heard horrid things about the PCV - has anyone tried to put anything else back there?"

"A gent from Cincinnati did a whole engineering thesis on putting a Chevrolet LS1 engine in his DMC-12. It's doable, but he also had to machine a lot of parts." Wayne chuckled. "Something that'd be right up Al's alley, so to speak."

"Why do you refer to them as DMC-12's, anyways?" Ari asked. "They don't have 12 cylinder engines..."

"When Mr. Delorean had the idea to sell them, he wanted to put them at the starting price of $12,000 in US dollars. That'd be roughly $33,000 today - if that had actually been the price of the things." He looked down at a piece of paper he'd scrawled on. "I believe Rock paid more than twice that $12,000 figure for his unassembled vehicle... Yes, $26,000 was the sticker price."

"That'd be over $66k nowadays, hey?" She considered, as another car was been driven into the shop. "Makes some of those project cars you're planning on selling a bargain, I guess."

"We do have one that we just finished putting together, more or less as a proof-of-concept, for our potential suppliers." He grinned, and pulled out a key attached to a keyfob. "Care to take it for a spin?"

Ari's eyes got wide. "Seriously? Which one?"

"You're standing right next to it."

She looked at the rear of the car. It had Texas plates: BKNTIME.

"Okay - but you've got to tell me what's up with all the 'time' references with the car," she said, taking the keys from him.

He gave her an incredulous look.

"Wait a minute... you've never seen Back to the Future?"

"Wait a minute, wait a minute... Doc, uh... are you telling me, that you built a TIME MACHINE, out of a DELOREAN?"
"The way I see it, if you're gonna build a time machine into a car why not do it with some STYLE? Besides, the stainless steel construction will give the flux dispersal..."
(looks at watch)
(pushes Marty away)
"LOOK OUT!"

Ari was a bit non-plussed as she saw the clip of the car - a Delorean with all sorts of strange tubes and vents on it - streaking across the screen.

"So... this is the reason why people like this car so much?"

"It was the impetus behind the movie trilogy, yes," Wayne said to her, snapping off the TV in the front offices. "Though obviously people do like it for other reasons. One of the most common is how advanced it was for its time."

"Except for the engine," she reiterated.

"Yes, the engine was less than optimal," he replied. "But -" He motioned back to the shop - "We can rectify that with a drive in that 'modified' DMC-12. And from what Al tells me, you're in luck - it's an automatic."

"He told you I can't drive stick?" She said with a worried look.

"Yes - and sadly, car number 801 - the one you found - has a five-speed manual." Ari frowned. "Of course, that may change, depending on what Al and Buck decide to put in it..."

Calvin Edward Alexander puzzled a bit at the e-mail that Buck had sent him.

Why in the world would he want to know if AHI had an engine of the same size as a PRV ZMJ140? He'd heard horror stories about the PRV - which would be reason enough for any sane person to want an engine swap - but that particular engine?

A quick Google search made him wonder if his nephew had possibly lost his marbles and decided to buy a Peuegeot. He could possibly throw one of the Inline-4's they have for the smaller tractors, but it wouldn't make much more horsepower.

He finally decided he needed to give his nephew a call about this.

"Yeah, hey Buck, it's Uncle Cal - what's up with this weird engine request?" He paused for a moment. "You found a WHAT?" Cal looked up at the ceiling of his office for a moment. "Oh, yeah, now that you mention it... I think the board laughed him out of the room when he put together Johnny Z's proposal. Even then, nothing we had could fit the engine bay... Oh, no, the I-4 would be even worse than the PRV in there, yeah... No, the lightness of the frame doesn't matter. Remember: our 100 series tractors weigh about the same as a car. Drop an I-4 in there and you might as well put an orange triangle on the back of the thing... Not assembled? That's really strange - Rock was always tellin' me he was going to put it together. Guess he never got the time. Think that was the real reason why he never got rid of Building 2... Oh? That's where it was found?... The tunnel?"

Calvin thought for a moment. "I vaguely remember that. Your grandpa Crowbar did show us the filled-in tunnel after they'd built 494. I thought they were just using it for parts storage, since it was right under the supply shop area... Heh, that makes sense, then. So - are you actually going to go through with building it?... Uh huh, you have the wiring diagrams - oh dear you have to deal with Lucas Electrics, don't you? Ew... Yeah, I know, that can be fixed - but still. Make sure they have fire extinguishers rated for electrical fires... No, I don't have a Mr. Fusion handy, you doofus. No matter what that Glytch friend of yours might think."

There was a pause. "Oh, he's afraid of the thing? Hm. Well... I think I know what you can do to keep him away, then. I'll stop over at the offices. Got something I picked up at the Minnesota ComicCon last spring that would make a great little add-on... Yeah, say hi to your mum and Al. And good luck with that thing - you're going to need it..."

*narrows eyes*

Who's afraid of what?

GlytchMeister wrote:*narrows eyes*

Who's afraid of what?

I wonder if he realises he threw down the gauntlet at Glytch...

I just see this as "Challenge accepted."

DinkyInky wrote:

GlytchMeister wrote:*narrows eyes*

Who's afraid of what?

I wonder if he realises he threw down the gauntlet at Glytch...

I just see this as "Challenge accepted."

GlytchMeister wrote:If she finds a disassembled flux capacitor, and Glytch finds out, he is gonna panic. Some tech is just too dangerous. True AI and time-alteration are pretty high up on his list of "tech that must be blown up with extreme prejudice."

Like I said, Glytch will be very freaked out. His knowledge of how powerful tech can be means he knows how dangerous it can be. He's also seen too many movies and games with AI and time travel involving huge problems for him to look at those two types of technology with anything less then absolute distrust.

EDIT: You keep making me add dialogue. Ugh.

^^^

Glytch's eyes narrowed as he heard Buck click off his cell phone at the New Alexander house.

"Who's afraid of what, now?" Glytch asked.

"That little find of Ari's at Building 2," Buck said as he went to place his lunch plate in the new kitchen's dual sink. "A complete, unassembled Delorean that my dad bought before I was born."

Glytch had a slightly panicked look on his face. "She… she didn't find a disassembled flux capacitor mixed in with it, did she?"

"What?" Buck needed a moment to realize what the wide-eyed Glytch had just asked. "Oh, no – Glytch, my dad bought the car brand new in 1981. Well before Doc Brown appeared on the scene."

"Well, maybe that's just what they want you to think, Buck. I mean, some tech is just too dangerous. True AI and time-alteration are pretty high up on my list of 'tech that must be blown up with extreme prejudice.' And, I've seen too many movies and games with AI and time travel involving huge problems, NOT to look at those types of technology with anything less than absolute distrust."

"Glytch…" Buck began.

"No, no, it's true. When it comes to creating huge amounts of mayhem and a staggering number of Unintended Consequences, invent an AI, or dabble with polydimensional energy flows and accidentally alter the past rank right up there with step out on your Significant Other and then try to cover it up."

Buck gave him a sidelong glance. "Wait – a sitcom plot is more dangerous than time travel?"

"Yeah. Sci-fi movies and games have nothing on situation comedies when it comes to mayhem and unintended consequences."

---

The car wasn't anything spectacular, at least in Arania's opinion. It was rather obvious that the vehicle was behind-the-times technologically - something that Buck would probably want upgraded as they rebuilt the thing - and it seemed a bit impractical without a proper rear seat. Not, of course, that Ari used her GT's back seat for much more than storage, of course.

"This was considered the height of luxury back in the 1980's," Wayne pointed out. "Of course, the original sound system is one of the first things new owners want to try to swap out."

"I'm not a big fan of listening to music on my morning drive," she said as she pulled the car off the I-69 freeway and back onto the ramp for Aldine-Bender Road. "The engine in this thing is tolerable - but it sure as heck isn't my Five-oh."

"You're a Ford girl, hey?" Wayne asked. Ari nodded. "Well, the two engines we get the most requests to swap-in are usually GM and Toyota V-6's. There was that one guy who put an electric motor in, but he had some issues with the battery that made it a less-than-profitable venture. Lot of interest, thought."

"If I wanted an electric, I'd get a Tesla - no offense," she apologized as she swung around and under the freeway to the northbound access road, back to the plant. He pointed out the turn to her, and she guided the vehicle back to the shop.

"So," she said as she pulled the car into the service bay. "My boss said you had the copy of the original title - and a few service manuals for him?"

"That I do, indeed. As well as a copy of the original sticker, the invoice - oh, and a rather large stack of service manuals. And, to make it all easier for you, we'll even include a DMC messenger bag to put it all in."

They went in, and Ari pored over the documents - since she was going to be helping with the assembly, she figured she was going to need all the help she could get...

GlytchMeister wrote:He's also seen too many movies and games with AI and time travel involving huge problems for him to look at those two types of technology with anything less then absolute distrust.

And he wonders why Marvin never invites him to dinner at the Restaurant At The End Of The Universe.

But, it's true. When it comes to creating huge amounts of mayhem and a staggering number of Unintended Consequences, "invent an AI", or "dabble with polydimensional energy flows and accidentally alter the past" rank right up there with "step out on your Significant Other and then try to cover it up." (SF movies and games have nothing on situation comedies when it comes to mayhem and unintended consequences)

“As I said before – what are you going to do with it?”

Al and Buck stood before the disassembled DeLorean, spread across two bays of the restoration shop. Temporary benches had been set up, and the assemblies laid out in order of assembly. The second bay contained the body shell, other assorted body parts, the partially completed chassis and the remaining suspension items.

The engine and transmission were in the second bay as well on dollies, shoved to the side to allow access to the main sections.

“So, Al, what do we have here? Does it match the paperwork?”

“Oddly enough for the DeLorean outfit everything matches the shipped paperwork. What you have here is a complete DMC-12 that was shipped here by John’s old outfit, to be used near as I can tell as a fitting mule for drivetrain development from the correspondence in that package.

You sure we can’t just stuff it back in the hole and concrete over it?”

“No, NO and again NO. I know you don’t like them, but we are not going to ignore it.’

“Oh, VERY well. If you must have your toy you will have it, I expect.”

“What there is that was relatively imperishable is in remarkable condition. The body parts all shined up like they were made yesterday after we uncrated and inspected them. They’ll need to be a bit of re-graining here and there to restore them from shipping damage, but that’s a relative triviality with that stainless-steel body.

The electricals seem OK – though they haven’t been tested, just inspected. Most of it is still in the factory boxes from Lucas, Bosch, et al so little surprise there. It should work fine – likely need to disassemble and re-grease things like wiper motors and window motors.
The mechanicals…are not so good.

The transmission seems fine – they fogged it when it was boxed and it survived the years in the crate in fine shape. The seals will all need to be replaced, but that’s not a nightmare – and I’d do that on any 5-speed that I pulled out of mothballs like this one.

The engine…is stuck. Won’t turn. Not moving. We have not tried to unstick it – that will require careful disassembly and uncoupling the pistons from the crank to see what’s stuck. I suspect the rings are rusted to the cylinder liners – it’s not an uncommon issue with ally-block engines stored without proper fogging. Yer Dad didn’t plan to store this thing as long as he did – so didn’t take the precautions he should have.”

“Understood. What else took the hit from the storage?”

“Everything rubber is likely perished – what I’ve seen I wouldn’t trust. So, figure all the hoses both engine and hydraulic will need to be replaced. As the car is disassembled this is a triviality, and the vast majority of the items are generic and easily available. – it’s the same as the seal issue but these have never been installed. I’m sure the outfit in Texas can help us with any items that are specific to the DMC-12.”

“Any more?”

"Hydraulics – all of them are to be honest beyond their sell-by date. None of it’s trustworthy, and replacing or rebuilding them is a triviality with the car in this condition. We can either go with the original Lucas/Girling or rebuild with better components.

The upholstery isn’t horrid other than in the design, and is usable depending on what you want. And – we’re back to that question – what do you want?”

“You tell me – what opportunities do I have here?”

“Well, if you won’t let me concrete over it” this earned him a glare from his stepson – which was completely ignored “we have three ways to go.

First – you throw this thing up on Ebay with a price tag and some DeLorean addict will scoop it up and assemble it warts and all – and be happy for it.

Second – we rebuild and reassemble this thing as a zero-time DeLorean of the original mould. This is being done by my mate's outfit in Texas, so nothing too special there other than its history as a troglodyte.

Third – we have some fun with it.”

Buck was immediately intrigued by the cryptic third possibility.

“I recognize that tone, Al. What level of sneaky are you trying to pull off here?”

“Sneaky, me? Well, maybe.

The design always severely lacked on several fronts – power, braking, handling and the like. Lovely concept that was crippled by its engineering and the chronic cashflow issues its parent company had.

We have here an ideal opportunity to correct the issues and build a serious car that would give Goldeneye over there a run for its money.

First things first we toss that V6 in the skip with all of its subsystems. Same with the hydraulics and the boost systems - phhhhht, gone.

Third, the Lucas electrics all go and get replaced with the Bosch equivalents. Most of it will be plug and play – we source them and install tthem. Ditto the audio – we get a period look modern package and swap it all out.

The peripheral systems get the same treatment.”

“Oh, boy. From that load of words you have put some thought into it. Walk me through the details.”

“Engine – Chevrolet LS1. Corvette engine. Get a complete crate one with all the systems – a Mech Eng graduate out of Ohio did the repowering as a thesis project and I have the paper. It will require some fabrication, but nothing we can’t handle. With the body off it’s tea and cakes – nothing we can’t do here.

All the systems involved we go with the Chevrolet parts – cheap, generic and effective – and NOT 30 years old. HVAC, EFI, charging, starting…all stock Chevrolet.

Brakes – we go a 6-piston Wilwood caliper setup front and back with vented disks and scrap it all – go with proper master and vacuum or electric boost.

Suspension – all new Bilstein and tuned for the changes in weight balance. Exhaust – ditto – tuned to the new engine combination. The only problem is going to be fitting the cats – and I think we can do that with generic high-flow units, with bungs welded in for the O2 sensors. All doable and will be done as we go.

The car LOOKS exactly the same down to the horrid tacky interior - but underneath it’s a serious supercar. Tires – keep the look the same, but put proper modern rubber on it.

What do you think?”

Buck looked at the car, mulling over his options. Spend nothing and sell it, Spend some and drive it, or spend a lot and REALLY drive it.

“Option 3, Al, Option 3.”

“Good. I already ordered the parts –the engine will be here next week.” Al grinned and stuck out his hand. Buck laughed, took it, and they shook over the remains of an old dream – and the birth of a new one.

jwhouk wrote:"Yes, the engine was less than optimal," he replied. "But -" He motioned back to the shop - "We can rectify that with a drive in that 'modified' DMC-12. And from what Al tells me, you're in luck - it's an automatic."

"He told you I can't drive stick?" She said with a worried look.

"Yes - and sadly, car number 801 - the one you found - has a five-speed manual." Ari frowned. "Of course, that may change, depending on what Al and Buck decide to put in it..."

I didn't realize Ford even made automatic Mustangs...
(Especially the 5.0 l. model...)
Wouldn't the purists consider that a blasphemy, or something?

lake_wrangler wrote: I didn't realize Ford even made automatic Mustangs...
(Especially the 5.0 l. model...)
Wouldn't the purists consider that a blasphemy, or something?

Depends on the driver. I can get a 5-speed to do things the manufacturer will swear are impossible - but I've been driving standards since I was 16.

For the average driver even in performance mode, a computer coupled power package of engine and transmission will run better, be generally cleaner and will have all the performance they will want.

Would I own it? No. Of course, I'm the lunatic who owned a Volvo 164 with a BW-35 strandard transmission in it...and a very modified engine - and raced it in SCCA events.

Just Old Al wrote:Would I own it? No. Of course, I'm the lunatic who owned a Volvo 164 with a BW-35 strandard transmission in it...and a very modified engine - and raced it in SCCA events.

And I'll bet you really enjoyed seeing the boggle reactions, the sagging jaws, and so forth, didn't you?

Dave wrote:

Just Old Al wrote:Would I own it? No. Of course, I'm the lunatic who owned a Volvo 164 with a BW-35 strandard transmission in it...and a very modified engine - and raced it in SCCA events.

And I'll bet you really enjoyed seeing the boggle reactions, the sagging jaws, and so forth, didn't you?

Want to boggle minds? Take a standard Chevette with four-speed- rebuild the engine stock. Remove the smog crap and use twin Weber Side draughts coupled with a tuned header to a split pipe with twin cherry bombs. Put aggresive tires on the back. No other modification is nessisary.

It'll blow the doors off many muscle machines and corner like an Italian whore.

Sgt. Howard wrote:

Dave wrote:

Just Old Al wrote:Would I own it? No. Of course, I'm the lunatic who owned a Volvo 164 with a BW-35 strandard transmission in it...and a very modified engine - and raced it in SCCA events.

And I'll bet you really enjoyed seeing the boggle reactions, the sagging jaws, and so forth, didn't you?

Want to boggle minds? Take a standard Chevette with four-speed- rebuild the engine stock. Remove the smog crap and use twin Weber Side draughts coupled with a tuned header to a split pipe with twin cherry bombs. Put aggresive tires on the back. No other modification is nessisary.

It'll blow the doors off many muscle machines and corner like an Italian whore.

*drool*

That's hot.