Ubuntu Studio 16.04

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Dave
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by Dave »

lake_wrangler wrote:Now that it's all done, and I rebooted the computer, I can't seem to get Linux started. I have not taken the time to look into it, as I do have a few other things to do, but that is definitely annoying. If I can't get it working, I'll just have to download the ISO and install from scratch. My documents are safely stored on a different partition, so they should be safe.

Bummer.
Indeed.

What's the failure syndrome? How far does it get when booting, and what does it say when it stops?
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lake_wrangler
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by lake_wrangler »

Dave wrote:What's the failure syndrome? How far does it get when booting, and what does it say when it stops?
I get to the Grub menu, and select Ubuntu Studio. I did see some of the usual messages pass by on the screen. Then something else about missing inodes. (I forget if those came before or after the usual messages.) Eventually, all I get is a black screen, though with no prompt. But there is still power going to the screen (I can tell by the way the power button is lit).
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Dave
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by Dave »

lake_wrangler wrote:
Dave wrote:What's the failure syndrome? How far does it get when booting, and what does it say when it stops?
I get to the Grub menu, and select Ubuntu Studio. I did see some of the usual messages pass by on the screen. Then something else about missing inodes. (I forget if those came before or after the usual messages.) Eventually, all I get is a black screen, though with no prompt. But there is still power going to the screen (I can tell by the way the power button is lit).
The missing-inodes message suggests that the initial filesystem check found that one of the filesystems wasn't properly shut down - I suspect that if you went through this process more than once, and hit the "reset" or "power off" switches, then there wasn't a clean shutdown. Probably not the root cause of the problem.

The black screen suggests that you've got a video-driver problem. In modern Linux distributions, the X Window system depends on kernel-mode driver support ("KMS", or "kernel mode setting") to put the video card into the correct graphics mode and to otherwise manage the video hardware; the user-mode portion of the X server runs without any particular privilege.

There have been problems with some of the kernel-side drivers, from time to time. Sometimes, the driver (whether vendor-provided or open-source) is updated to support new chipsets, and loses support for older chipsets. Sometimes there are problems with the video interface e.g. the driver can't read the video-screen resolution over DVI/HDMI, and ends up switching the card to a video mode that the screen can't support.

For video cards with Nvidia chipsets, there are two completely different sets of kernel and user-mode video drivers: the closed-source binary-distribution drivers from Nvidia, and the open-source "nouveau" driver. My impression is that the Nvidia drivers have a poorer track record for long-term stability; updates to support new chipsets have a greater chance of dropping or breaking support for older chipsets.

You might be able to use Grub to boot the system in a 'safe' mode, with either text-only screen support, or a very limited "framebuffer" X configuration... look under "advanced options" in the boot menu. I'd suggest booting in text-only mode, then looking at /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old - these will show you what happened when your system tried to start up X previously. There may be error messages there which will help clarify the problem.
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TazManiac
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by TazManiac »

Dave wrote:
lake_wrangler wrote:
Dave wrote:What's the failure syndrome? How far does it get when booting, and what does it say when it stops?
I get to the Grub menu, and select Ubuntu Studio. I did see some of the usual messages pass by on the screen. Then something else about missing inodes. (I forget if those came before or after the usual messages.) Eventually, all I get is a black screen, though with no prompt. But there is still power going to the screen (I can tell by the way the power button is lit).
< good info snipped >

You might be able to use Grub to boot the system in a 'safe' mode, with either text-only screen support, or a very limited "framebuffer" X configuration... look under "advanced options" in the boot menu. I'd suggest booting in text-only mode, then looking at /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old - these will show you what happened when your system tried to start up X previously. There may be error messages there which will help clarify the problem.

Dave to the rescue. (Sorry, I haven't been on-line much at all this week...)

LW- (sorry if you already mentioned back, upstream, but...) Could you note your existing system's model and manufacture's info?

Vendor -
Model Number -

It would help to pin down start up video problems. It's good news btw that you can see the GRUB boot menu.

I should be back later this afternoon or Tomorrow, Sat, with a better reply...
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lake_wrangler
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by lake_wrangler »

This is a home-built computer.
Asus motherboard
AMD-FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor 3.6 GHz

Nvidia GeForce GT 610 video cards (two of them)
I was using the Nvidia-Current driver in my Ubuntu Studio 14.04, and I'm pretty sure I saw that being named in the stuff that was updated/upgraded/installed.

Several hard drives, one for Windows, one for Linux, partitioned with separate boot, root and home partitions, as well as a partition for data.

Currently running on 8 GB of ram, was running on 24, but I am suspecting a problem with the two 8 GB sticks. Will have to test them later.




Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go take a short nap before going back to work...
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TazManiac
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by TazManiac »

Good Info; and I think I've asked before, and was too lazy/rushed to look back 'up thread' to confirm.

Still, I think you can expect a better reply from me tomorrow or Sunday when I have more 'Internet time' to work with.

Dave is on the right track in terms of NVidia drivers (bother Open Source & Proprietary'...)

Last question for now to help clarify my mental musings: You had an existing dual-boot Win 7 & Ubuntu 14.xx, and it was working, _then_ you Upgraded In place to Ubuntu 16.04.
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by TazManiac »

PS- just now, while mentioning I was replying to 'My Canadian Bus Driver Friend" (not to be confused w/ my Canadian School Teacher Friend from another forum), who is also a Bike Rider, like I am, but is even more hard core ["I even saw pictures of him riding his bike in the SNOW!"], he, my local buddy, who btw grew up in Ohio, quipped back real quick like that "Well, yeah, thats what you gotta do up there in the Summer...".

(y/k: ride yer bike in tha snow)


B])
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Dave
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by Dave »

This might be useful:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/760374/ ... ank-screen

In this case, it looks as if there can be any of several problems:

- Having the open-source kernel driver installed, but X tries to run the Nvidia user-level server.
- Vice versa - having the Nvidia kernel module installed, but trying to use Nouveau at user level.
- Outdated Nvidia driver (need a fresh install from Nvidia's web site) or a too-recent version (may need to manually install a backdated one).
- Secure Boot turned on in the BIOS.

http://www.upubuntu.com/2016/11/how-to- ... after.html
https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topi ... 04-64bit-/
https://blog.countableset.com/2016/08/2 ... a-drivers/
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lake_wrangler
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by lake_wrangler »

TazManiac wrote:PS- just now, while mentioning I was replying to 'My Canadian Bus Driver Friend" (not to be confused w/ my Canadian School Teacher Friend from another forum), who is also a Bike Rider, like I am, but is even more hard core ["I even saw pictures of him riding his bike in the SNOW!"], he, my local buddy, who btw grew up in Ohio, quipped back real quick like that "Well, yeah, thats what you gotta do up there in the Summer...".

(y/k: ride yer bike in tha snow)


B])
Yeah... You know, I once heard about the two seasons we have, in Québec: winter, and July... :P :lol:
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lake_wrangler
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by lake_wrangler »

TazManiac wrote:Dave is on the right track in terms of NVidia drivers (bother Open Source & Proprietary'...)
Most likely, yes. I just haven't had time to follow that trail, yet...
TazManiac wrote:Last question for now to help clarify my mental musings: You had an existing dual-boot Win 7 & Ubuntu 14.xx, and it was working, _then_ you Upgraded In place to Ubuntu 16.04.
Yes, that's absolutely correct.


(And saying that just sent my mind back to my summer camp days, where there was a skit called "Yes, that's absolutely correct"... the setting was a talk show, where the host interviews a missionary returning from Africa where, according to the host's notes, said missionary contracted a strange disease that only allowed him to say four words? "Yes, that's absolutely correct," comes the answer... With sadistic glee, the host puts down his notepad and starts asking a bunch of embarrassing questions which, as expected, the returning missionary answers with the same words every time... then, at one point, the host looks at his notepad, and comments, hesitantly, that, um, that disease is highly contagious? Both answer, in unison, "Yes, that's absolutely correct..." At this point, the missionary starts asking embarrassing questions to the host, who, naturally, is "forced" to answer "yes, that's absolutely correct"... Until the missionary asks a question so embarrassing, that rather than answer it, the host runs off with an anguished cry...
The funny part was that the embarrassing questions were not rehearsed, or even discussed ahead of time, to add to the uneasiness of the questionee who is forced to answer in the affirmative...)
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lake_wrangler
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by lake_wrangler »

Dave wrote:
lake_wrangler wrote:
Dave wrote:What's the failure syndrome? How far does it get when booting, and what does it say when it stops?
I get to the Grub menu, and select Ubuntu Studio. I did see some of the usual messages pass by on the screen. Then something else about missing inodes. (I forget if those came before or after the usual messages.) Eventually, all I get is a black screen, though with no prompt. But there is still power going to the screen (I can tell by the way the power button is lit).
The missing-inodes message suggests that the initial filesystem check found that one of the filesystems wasn't properly shut down - I suspect that if you went through this process more than once, and hit the "reset" or "power off" switches, then there wasn't a clean shutdown. Probably not the root cause of the problem.
I didn't think so either. That didn't seem to be the kind of message that would suddenly turn off the screen...
Dave wrote:The black screen suggests that you've got a video-driver problem. In modern Linux distributions, the X Window system depends on kernel-mode driver support ("KMS", or "kernel mode setting") to put the video card into the correct graphics mode and to otherwise manage the video hardware; the user-mode portion of the X server runs without any particular privilege.

There have been problems with some of the kernel-side drivers, from time to time. Sometimes, the driver (whether vendor-provided or open-source) is updated to support new chipsets, and loses support for older chipsets. Sometimes there are problems with the video interface e.g. the driver can't read the video-screen resolution over DVI/HDMI, and ends up switching the card to a video mode that the screen can't support.
We'll see... I do know that my cards are not the most up-to-date ones around... even when I bought them, the model was already pretty old... it was the only way I could afford cards with a decent amount of video memory (I think it's 4 GB each)
Dave wrote:For video cards with Nvidia chipsets, there are two completely different sets of kernel and user-mode video drivers: the closed-source binary-distribution drivers from Nvidia, and the open-source "nouveau" driver. My impression is that the Nvidia drivers have a poorer track record for long-term stability; updates to support new chipsets have a greater chance of dropping or breaking support for older chipsets.
I ran with the Nouveau drivers, when I first installed Ubuntu Studio 14.04. But after a while, I started noticing that the mouse seemed to skip, somehow. I would move the mouse quickly, it would remain where it is for a moment, then quickly appear farther down the screen, as per the initial movement intended. This made it hard to try clicking on stuff... When I moved to Nvidia drivers, it seemed to fix that problem.
Dave wrote:You might be able to use Grub to boot the system in a 'safe' mode, with either text-only screen support, or a very limited "framebuffer" X configuration... look under "advanced options" in the boot menu. I'd suggest booting in text-only mode, then looking at /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old - these will show you what happened when your system tried to start up X previously. There may be error messages there which will help clarify the problem.
I was indeed counting on some form of of text-only mode, to fix stuff. I just haven't had time to work in that, yet. In fact, I just got home from working overtime all night, so I'm going to bed for a while, before I attempt anything on the computer...
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TazManiac
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by TazManiac »

lake_wrangler wrote:
Dave wrote:You might be able to use Grub to boot the system in a 'safe' mode, with either text-only screen support, or a very limited "framebuffer" X configuration... look under "advanced options" in the boot menu. I'd suggest booting in text-only mode, then looking at /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old - these will show you what happened when your system tried to start up X previously. There may be error messages there which will help clarify the problem.
I was indeed counting on some form of of text-only mode, to fix stuff. I just haven't had time to work in that, yet. In fact, I just got home from working overtime all night, so I'm going to bed for a while, before I attempt anything on the computer...
Dave has come through with some very informative links, of which I've taken the briefest of looks at, but it seems like a good path towards resolving the trouble.

I am still limited, today, in terms of Internet Access (both quota & time) but I wanted to quickly add that the following:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/901326/ ... eb-browser
Q) How do I boot into a Recovery mode, fail-safeX, graphics session
for troubleshooting graphics drivers with a desktop & mouse ?

That way I can use a web browser & nice GUI tools to fix regular video drivers. (Nvidia, AMD,...
The thread is an older one but it's pretty simple for all that, and lets you get into the GUI part of the OS, a good diagnostic step & if it works well enough, a way to avoid the command line/terminal window as the only option to resolving problems.
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by lake_wrangler »

Well, it's working, yet not quite...

I tried typing "e" on the Ubuntu Studio selection from the grub menu, and ended up with a file I could edit (yet hardly see what was on it, because of the background image I had set, some time back, for the grub menu), but could not find the "quiet splash" line to add the "nomodeset" to.

I then tried to have it go fully into the blank screen, and try CTRL-ALT-F1, to go to terminal mode, but it wouldn't work (something that's been bugging me for a while... some keyboard shortcuts don't do what they're supposed to do...)
TazManiac wrote:https://askubuntu.com/questions/901326/ ... eb-browser
[lake_wrangler's note: I don't know why Tazmaniac's link never showed up as a link... I had to include it into a URL tag, using itself as the URL link...]
Q) How do I boot into a Recovery mode, fail-safeX, graphics session
for troubleshooting graphics drivers with a desktop & mouse ?

That way I can use a web browser & nice GUI tools to fix regular video drivers. (Nvidia, AMD,...
The thread is an older one but it's pretty simple for all that, and lets you get into the GUI part of the OS, a good diagnostic step & if it works well enough, a way to avoid the command line/terminal window as the only option to resolving problems.
The instructions here failed me some, in that my computer did not boot into a graphics failsafe mode. But I did use it to try to enable network on terminal mode and then go back to other instructions for the rest. It didn't quite work... more below.
While in terminal mode, I did manage to completely remove the Nvidia drivers, but not quite how they did it (I forget why, now). I ended up doing:

Code: Select all

apt-get remove --purge nvidia.*
But when I tried following the other instructions, it could not find the repositories (i.e. no network, even though I had tried to enable network in the advanced options). Still, I figured, why not, let's try booting up.

Lo and behold, I have a functioning screen again! But...
While using the Nouveau drivers (which I guess it defaulted to, in the absence of Nvidia drivers), I could not get the proper monitor configuration working: while it did see that I had two graphics adapters and three monitors, it would only allow me to enable the second monitor, not the third. I tried both under the Display menu, and ARandR (which gave me an error each time I tried.) That's somewhat perplexing, since I first installed Ubuntu Studio 14.04 because it was the first distro I tried whose LiveCD would allow me the use of the three monitors (even with the Nouveau drivers...) I had tried two other distros first, and neither would allow me to enable the second graphics adapter to use the third monitor. I suppose I could have fully installed them, then looked for a solution (which would, most likely, have involved installing the Nvidia drivers), but I wanted something to work out of the box, and at the time, Ubuntu Studio 14.04 seemed to do so (it was only later on, that the skipping mouse was bugging me enough to go and install the Nvidia drivers)

A funny annecdote: I had a strange situation, at one point... It was weird: I had the left and right monitors working, but not the center one. And whatever monitor the mouse happened to be on, it would not move to the other monitor! It's like it was trapped to whatever monitor it was on, because of the non-functioning center monitor... It's a good thing I had my previous setup with panels on the bottom of all my monitors, with a button to access the menu, otherwise, I might not have been able to go back to the Display Settings to try to fix things.

Using the Nouveau drivers once more, I could see the mouse skipping again, if I tried to move it too quickly... It was time for the next step.

So while in full Linux mode, I went and opened a terminal window and reinstalled the Nvidia drivers:

Code: Select all

apt-get install nvidia-current
I then rebooted. It worked: smooth mouse sailing, the Nvidia Settings program again, etc. Yay!

Now, since the regular Display settings still won't let me enable three screens, nor will ARandR, I go into the Nvidia Settings program, and am able to enable all three, after a while... But...

I still can't manage to get them to show up in the right order, or to have the proper monitor be the primary display... It is keeping the right monitor as the primary, and if I move the mouse from one screen to the next, it goes from right to left to center. I don't want to try switching video cables between monitors, because I am not sure the HDMI cable I am using for the center monitor will reach all the way to the right monitor. Yes, I suppose I could buy a longer one, but I don't want to. I could also play around with the three cables at the computer end, switching them around until I find a configuration that works (though that would most likely mess up my Windows display configuration, and I'd have to work on that again...), but I shouldn't have to. I should be able to fix this via software. It was working in 14.04, there's no reason it shouldn't work in 16.04. Yet currently, I can't seem to even find an option in the Nvidia Settings program to select any other monitor as the default one. I even tried to go into the Display Settings from Ubuntu, and it won't even load up! I have to use the Nvidia one.

I have no more time for this for now, will look into it tonight, most likely. But at least, it's progress. The OS is clearly Ubuntu Studio 16.04 (now suggesting I upgrade to 18.04...) and I have most of my settings still in place, such as all the panels I had on the various screens. It will take a while, to see if all is as I had left it before, but I'm happy with the forward motion...



All this to say that yes, upgrading Ubuntu Studio rather than doing a full install from scratch does work, but if you have been using proprietary video drivers, you may have some fiddling to do before you get them working again.



I did save my previous configuration in a file, back when I first set up my monitors with the Nvidia drivers in Ubuntu 14.04. I will try to see if I can find where the current config file is, and try replacing it with the old one, to see if that helps. If not, I'll keep looking around for the option to switch primary display and the proper order of the monitors, in the software. Failing that, I may just have to bite the bullet, and play around with the cable connections at the computer end, until I find a configuration that works properly, then redo the configuration in Windows.


Another thing that will benefit me, having done all this, is that while I was in the Grub menu, I did notice the options for testing memory... I will be able to try that, later on, to check what's happening with my memory sticks (some of which I suspect may be causing problems, but that's something for another thread...)



As a side note, I have looked at many YouTube videos on the topic of Linux, in the past, including some conferences and such, some of which featured Linux Torvald, the creator of Linux. In one such video, he said that Nvidia was the hardest video adapter company to work with for Linux drivers, and ended by saying "F*ck you, Nvidia!" :lol:
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lake_wrangler
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by lake_wrangler »

I finaly figured out the way to set my monitors in the right order, after spending much time either looking for the config file, or trying different things in the Nvidia Settings program.

In the end, I had to disable one monitor (the right one, originally set as X-screen 0), and set up the left as X-screen 0 instead, leaving the middle one placed to the right of that to become X-screen 1. Enabling the third monitor again, I set it as X-screen 2. Now all the monitors are in the right order, and the mouse travels freely from one end of the desktop to the other, without having to switch direction upon switching screen (via enabling Xinerama, which sets the whole thing as one desktop - the only way to set up multiple monitors as a single "screen" if they come from a different graphics adaptor. )

Yay!

Now, I need to make sure everything else works properly (my wallpaper changer does not seem to, for one thing...)
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TazManiac
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 16.04

Post by TazManiac »

OK, first of all- Congratulations for your Perseverance!

Secondly, in the Win XP & 7 worlds I've had to do some of those very same steps to get the multiple adapters/screens situation set up.

Thoid; you might investigate what might happen if you choose the 'Addition Drivers' option* and see what it offers. It kind of overlaps the functions provided by the command line code:

sudo apt update && sudo apt dist-upgrade

or equivalents provided by Synaptic, etc. (Heh, had to add 'sudo' to the web browser's built in spell-check dictionary...)

* 'Additional Drivers' is part of the 'Software & Updates' panel, you can easily find it by clicking the main pull-down menu, clicking the 'All Settings' icon in the lower right corner of that pull-down & choosing 'Additional Drivers'.
Ooorrrr you can choose the 'System' choice from that same Main Menu and then select 'Software Updater', further clicking the 'Additional Drivers' tab after that, either way...


Lastly, (there is no '4'...)

Have you investigated the "What to do after Installing Ubuntu Studio 16.04" tips out there on the Interwebz?

You'll need to either spec 'Studio' and/or spec the X in 'Xubuntu' to get the variations or instruction related to the XFCE front end, vs Unity, etc found in the plain vanilla Ubuntu.

Off the top of my head without refreshing my spotty memories;
adding the 'Canonical Partners' Repositories, installing the Xubuntu-Extras, and installing useful apps like VLC media player, K3B disk burning util, and Stellarium (Astronomical program) for example.
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