Wapsi Square Forum

Alkarii wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:35 pm The bag itself has a season rating of 2 (so cooler nights in summer and spring), but it can also be good enough at temps as low as 5⁰ to 10⁰ C. I'm not sure what that is in Fahrenheit, though I'm sure Arkansas doesn't get that cold very often, except during the worst part of winter. However, if I combine that with one or both of my poncho liners, I might be okay. Keep in mind, I wouldn't sleep in an exposed position without any shelter if I had any option.

That would be in 40-45F range. Possibly not warm enough for frost or snow weather, without additional insulation.

You might want to consider carrying along a Thermarest or similar pad... that, plus a lean-to cover of branches, might be enough to the bag's usable range enough.

Yeah, as I said, if I add a poncho liner, which is something really good at trapping heat (probably a little more than the sleeping bag, if used correctly), I should be fine for an Arkansas winter, if I have some kind of shelter. I'm also going to try to find a bivi bag to use outside of the sleeping bag, to keep water out. Hopefully I can find one that's Gore-Tex. One trick my dad told me about was when he used a space blanket with his poncho liner, and he was sleeping in shorts and a t-shirt while the other guys were freezing.

Seriously, if you haven't used a poncho liner before, I recommend either visiting your local military surplus store, or looking online. Zerofoxtrot.com will sell some in certain patterns that they only run for a little while, but you can also check out military1st.com for some if the same patterns that might get restocked at some point. Mil-Tec makes them. You might even be able to find a zippered poncho liner in OCP (Operational Camouflage Pattern) that the US military uses now. I've been using mine as a sleeping bag on my bed with the ceiling fan going all night during winter, and I still got a bit too close to sweating.

Alkarii wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:30 pm Which reminds me, I saw a video once that was showing off a spool of paracord that looked like a tape measure, and it had a blade on it to cut it as needed, so that could be a decent addition.

Then you have the extra weight of the dispenser to carry around, which might not be much by itself but every little bit of extra weight adds up. And it will always take up the maximum amount of space in your pack, even if it only has three feet of cord left in it.

Personally, I've found that the best way to transport cord such as that is to just coil it up and then stuff it into a sock. That keeps it contained and easy to get to, it's soft and flexible so you can cram it in to wherever you have space in your pack or pockets, and you have a spare sock when you need it as well.

Alkarii wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:35 pmHowever, I managed to find a nice, multifunctional tarp that seems like it will work if I use some cordage and ingenuity, and I can make tent poles from scavenged materials if I don't want to tie a rope between a coupe of trees.

A basic tent is just a tarp, with means to hold it up off of you and keep it from blowing away on the wind. You don't even need tent poles, if you can put your packs under it so that they'll hold it up off of you when you crawl under to sleep. Then all you need is a means to hold the tarp down.

Dave wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:11 am You might want to consider carrying along a Thermarest or similar pad... that, plus a lean-to cover of branches, might be enough to the bag's usable range enough.

Yeah, putting something under the sleeping bag to keep it off the ground will greatly improve its ability to keep you warm. There are plenty of light-weight pads made just for that sort of thing, some made of foam and some inflatable. Those are useful for if you don't know whether you'll be able to throw something together for the purpose out of grass or branches or bear carcasses or whatever (or if you just don't feel like putting in the effort to make something on-site).

I actually have that covered: I acquired a surplus military issue self inflating bedroll for, like... $16? You unscrew the valve at one of the corners, and the foam inside expands, letting air into it. Then you close the valve again, and you're good to go! (Make sure to open the valve when you roll it up so you can squeeze the air out, then close it again when you're done.) However, I also know how to make what's called a brush mat, and if I happen to use pine branches for that, I think I might try putting some leaves on top to keep the sap off of everything.

I do like the idea of using a sock to hold the cordage, though. There's actually several different uses for socks in survival gear, my favorite being to put an unlubricated condom inside (unrolled) so you can fill it with extra water.

However, I also grabbed some small, lightweight cable cuffs (two of the largest, for holding my heavy rope, and two that were pretty small, so I could clip them around smaller types of cordage, like the paracord.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, once I get enough of the right gear for a proper AWOL bag, my brother and I were thinking about getting some recording equipment and making videos teaching folks how to use all that stuff, along with some other neat things, like rappelling, or how to make some kind of system that doesn't use electricity but can still help you get water that can be made potable. We were thinking of making a series that is kind of like Patrolling with Sean Kennedy, but maybe go more into how to use tactical gear, land navigation... pretty much basic soldier stuff, except for combat.

However you decide to camp, be sure you have a water resistant ground cloth under you. More than once I've been on the beach (for example) and suddenly found my rump was cold from the seawater migrating up through the sand and into the towel. Similar situation in the woods/field/where ever. It's not necessarily quick, but it can happen, and then you're stuck with a soggy/clammy bedroll or such.

I am confident that Alkarii is using a ground cloth.

Very much enjoying this thread. Way too long since I've done any camping.

One thing I've found useful is to just have a couple of the thin bags used for vegetables (not the perforated ones, obviously) in any pack I take on a hike. Have used them to douse streamside fires, prevent wet butt sitting on damp ground, and gather wild watercress.

Actually, depending on how I set up my tarp shelter, I could use part of it as a ground cloth. Also, one of the things I was planning to put in the videos I mentioned was to show how to spot signs that a potential campsite might be subject to flooding, and also how to make a proper trench around the site to divert the water.

I was also going to look for a bivy bag, which is a waterproof bag into which you put your sleeping system. In basic, one of the drill sergeants told us to also try to get our bedroll inside it, so we don't end up moving off of it while sleeping. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find one in Flecktarn...

Oh, wait, hold on a minute... I just found a 3-layer bivy in Flecktarn that is actually in stock! Cha-ching!

Not sure if I mentioned it before, but the reason I like the Flecktarn pattern so much largely has to do with the fact that it's the most effective pattern where I live.

EDIT: I've been using military1st.com to locate stuff I can't find in any of the stores around here. I found a 4 Season sleeping bag in Flecktarn (it can apparently go to -10⁰ C, and that might be a bit colder than it gets in Arkansas) that I added to my wish list, and I can technically afford it at the moment, but I want to at least get the stuff I've already ordered and then properly organize my ruck.

When you mentioned Flecktarn cammo, I flashed on the WWI German hexagonal aircraft cammo. You don't need subdued colors to be effective when breaking up outlines!

Atomic wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:50 pm When you mentioned Flecktarn cammo, I flashed on the WWI German hexagonal aircraft cammo. You don't need subdued colors to be effective when breaking up outlines!

I didn't know that they played Avalon Hill games in WW1

Carbohydrates must necessarily be in the diet

Primarily because, short of being an exclusive carnivore (even cats aren't quite), they are almost impossible to avoid. You can't even season your meat without getting carbohydrates. (Salt is OK.)

The US's FDA states a minimum needed amount of carbohydrates, but admits that getting less than the minimum - all the way to zero - causes no symptoms as long as the person is getting enough of everything else including calories.

Atomic wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:50 pm When you mentioned Flecktarn cammo, I flashed on the WWI German hexagonal aircraft cammo. You don't need subdued colors to be effective when breaking up outlines!

If you've got a bright, vivid environment, then you use bright, vivid camouflage. I've seen vehicles painted bright pink, because they were used in bright pink deserts.

Warrl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:01 am

Carbohydrates must necessarily be in the diet

Primarily because, short of being an exclusive carnivore (even cats aren't quite), they are almost impossible to avoid. You can't even season your meat without getting carbohydrates. (Salt is OK.)

The US's FDA states a minimum needed amount of carbohydrates, but admits that getting less than the minimum - all the way to zero - causes no symptoms as long as the person is getting enough of everything else including calories.

I saw an interesting study mentioned recently on the subject of "salmon starvation". It turns out that (contrary to previous thought) pre-historic Native American tribes in the northwestern US didn't actually live just on salmon for months at a time. Although dried salmon is an excellent source of protein, it has relatively little fat in it, and without added fat or carbohydrates in the diet humans can't get enough energy from salmon alone without suffering from protein poisoning (nasty and potentially fatal).

With new information (based on isotope analysis) it turns out that the tribes involved were supplementing their diets with other sources of energy. Those which could, gathered and treated and cooked acorns (lots of complex carbs). Others traded salmon to other tribes, in return for different types of (high-fat) fish or meat.

There's a related line of thought, suggesting that humans may have started the process of domesticating dogs, by feeding their scrap meat surplus to wolves. Humans living in the tundra areas would have had to live mostly on meat and fat, and many of the animals they killed would have had more meat (relative to their fat content) than humans could consume. Meat is left over, wolves scavenge it and become used to being around humans, those which are less afraid of (and less aggressive towards) humans get more access to the meat, and selection begins to favor wolves which get along with humans.

Something similar happened with smaller cats. Shortly after people started storing grain, they eventually noticed that cats were eating the rodents that spoiled the grain, and therefore they would provide water and possibly more food. Though, really, this is more of a case of cats domeaticating themselves.

Catawampus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:04 pm

Atomic wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:50 pm When you mentioned Flecktarn cammo, I flashed on the WWI German hexagonal aircraft cammo. You don't need subdued colors to be effective when breaking up outlines!

If you've got a bright, vivid environment, then you use bright, vivid camouflage. I've seen vehicles painted bright pink, because they were used in bright pink deserts.

WWII RAF Recon Spitfires were a pastel pink because their missions were just at sunset, and they blended well into the twilight glow and side lit clouds.

And now I've got Henry Mancini playing in my head, for some reason.

Atomic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:00 pm

Catawampus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:04 pm

Atomic wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:50 pm When you mentioned Flecktarn cammo, I flashed on the WWI German hexagonal aircraft cammo. You don't need subdued colors to be effective when breaking up outlines!

If you've got a bright, vivid environment, then you use bright, vivid camouflage. I've seen vehicles painted bright pink, because they were used in bright pink deserts.

WWII RAF Recon Spitfires were a pastel pink because their missions were just at sunset, and they blended well into the twilight glow and side lit clouds.

And i notice the roundels were not standard colours.

Atomic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:00 pm WWII RAF Recon Spitfires were a pastel pink because their missions were just at sunset, and they blended well into the twilight glow and side lit clouds.

That's what the historians would have you believe.

I prefer to believe that the RAF was simply responding to wartime shortages, and decided not to issue an adequate amount of sunblock to those Spitfires. The chance that a Spitfire would survive long enough in combat to develop skin cancer was negligible.

Dave wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:21 pm I prefer to believe that the RAF was simply responding to wartime shortages, and decided not to issue an adequate amount of sunblock to those Spitfires. The chance that a Spitfire would survive long enough in combat to develop skin cancer was negligible.

The (un)official rumor was that they were all pink at the beginning, and exposure to sun made them a blotchy green and brown. It seems that happens often with military aircraft.

Woo! My vest arrived, and as I suspected, the pouches are removable. I'll enlist my brother's help later to get a proper fit. It has attachment points along the bottom so I can attach a pistol belt or patrol belt of some sort, which is a nice feature. It'd be nice if I could find a decent hydrator pack that can be mounted directly to the back of the vest, since it has the webbing on the back as well. However, my rucksack has a pocket inside the main bag specifically for a hydration bladder, with a hole for the drinking tube. I actually have a used Hydramax that I think is exactly like one I was issued in basic, and while it does have shoulder straps, it also has these little plastic C clips that I could probably use to quickly attach to the back of the vest. I'm not actually sure what the real purpose of the clips is, unless to quickly attach it to the webbing of a rucksack or assault pack.

I'm also thinking about inquiring with a local rock climbing club, since I think that there are some practical applications for knowing how to do that sort of thing.

Typeminer wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:21 am And now I've got Henry Mancini playing in my head, for some reason.

I can't imagine why!