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tophoo
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Post by tophoo »

And don't you jerky jerk-faces post spoilers in the comments! :roll:

Before anybody gets hyper-defensive: I'm not talking shit. I'm asking questions and pointing out problems that nag at me. Honest, thoughtful critique is something authors can use to improve their craft.
Before anyone tells me to search the forums for these answers: I tried. The search functions on this crap forum are about as useful as a chocolate helmet. It's built on BBS logic, for gods' sake. Instead, I read through the comic from beginning to end a few times.

Simple stuff first:

1) What's up w' Lily's face- really sharp cheekbones and really hollow cheeks? I get that she doesn't seem to feed enough, but.. damn. Were the Anasazi known for that kind of thing?
The tribes I grew up around certainly aren't.

2) Why do some of the ladies have racoon masks? Adult Bia is the prime example http://wapsisquare.com/comic/consequenc ... nipotence/of this, but Monica has appeared thus as well.

3) What do y'all reckon is represented by Jet's "dog" demon http://wapsisquare.com/comic/side-effect/?

4) There are several references to "cat-" or "cat-like markings" on sphinxes & Monica- other than spraying the tires on my car, WTF is a cat-marking? I assume that's what those odd splotches along the nose are supposed to be? I don't think I've ever seen a cat that looked like it had been wearing really heavy spectacles before..

5) Earlier on, M's described several times a 'A' jag girl, not 'THE', but when she first pops (@ Phix) Tsillah says something about first sub-titan born in a million years- sooo, other sub-titans are millions of years old? Bia was a child during the chimera incident 10k-ish years ago- how bloody long had she been a child? What about Prometheus or Amnesia Cop- are they sub-titans, demigods or just divinely handsome? Others? Were folks titan-ing the shit out of Homo Eerectus?

6)What's with all the extra floppy, flappy bits on mermaid arms and fin hands & stuff? They've got tails- why wouldn't they porpoise aroun?- What would they need paddle-hands for? They don't need to use their arms like a human. Hell, this lady http://wapsisquare.com/comic/this-is-better/ looks like she'd break her own neck if she dove wrong.

7) So the Berenstain Twins are NA- I get it. Why all the dream catchers and crap? Why do they apparently live in a log cabin? I'm no social-justice warrior, but that seems a bit tacky.

8) It appears that the only instance of Atsalsi's wings significantly damaging her top is the missile incident at the conclusion of Mapimi 2. Looks like every other shift has left her top largely intact. Even when Dette popped them in Mapimi- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/trust-us/ while the talisman was on.

Speaking of Sali- my big one.

Why/how did Sali become autistically oblivious?
Even leaving aside the Anasazi adventure- who knows- maybe half-sirens go brain-dead after they.. explode into puberty.. she seems to have devolved, at least socially.
Back here- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/the-sound-of-my-voice/, she used a sexually-charged (if not quite sexual) intimate encounter to demonstrate her worries to Berdine. Sali inquired about Berdine's sexuality, and then showed that she could overcome even that with her power, and displayed wisdom in using said power. The many incidents of Dette's physical affection, even kisses never phased her. Sali was shown to be oblivious to Dette's feelings after Mapimi 2, but by that time, she would have been more likely lobotomized than simply "oblivious".
But when Dette comes out and says, "hey, I'm gay", we've got the biggest breach of trust ever. I get the seemingly retconned reason for Sali's intimacy issues, but...
I can't help but feel like needless pathos is being written for Sali on the mistaken premise that damage equals character development.

First, everybody (I know- only two out of twenty or so characters) turns out to have been raped, now, a- what? A spurned lover? An unrequited love?- does the hemp fandango over Sali's bed?
A person need not be incredibly damaged to be whole or interesting, is my point.

Sooo, yeah- that's all that comes to mind right now.
Y'know, I've got a nice, concise, little avatar pic that I've been using for ten damned years, and this is the first place I've ever tried to use it that said it was too big.
Screw it- I'm stayin' generic.
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jwhouk
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Re: Data required.

Post by jwhouk »

tophoo wrote:And don't you jerky jerk-faces post spoilers in the comments! :roll:

Before anybody gets hyper-defensive: I'm not talking shit. I'm asking questions and pointing out problems that nag at me. Honest, thoughtful critique is something authors can use to improve their craft.
Before anyone tells me to search the forums for these answers: I tried. The search functions on this crap forum are about as useful as a chocolate helmet. It's built on BBS logic, for gods' sake. Instead, I read through the comic from beginning to end a few times.
A noble endeavor. Yeah, there's a LOT of stuff that you had to pick up as you went along. Something like a Comprehensive Strip-by-Strip Guide (see signature line) might help in the future. ;)
Simple stuff first:

1) What's up w' Lily's face- really sharp cheekbones and really hollow cheeks? I get that she doesn't seem to feed enough, but.. damn. Were the Anasazi known for that kind of thing?
The tribes I grew up around certainly aren't.
Lily is a vampire, and several thousands of years old. That and the whole "dying alone in the desert" thing probably eliminated any definition in her cheeks and chin. I think most observers IRL would think she was an emaciated supermodel.
2) Why do some of the ladies have racoon masks? Adult Bia is the prime example http://wapsisquare.com/comic/consequenc ... nipotence/of this, but Monica has appeared thus as well.
Ah, yes. That's actually a trick of shading that Paul's not 100% on. It's an indication of someone whose eyes are sunken deep into their sockets - basically someone who hasn't had a whole lot of sleep, or is perhaps projecting themselves to be much older than they actually are.
3) What do y'all reckon is represented by Jet's "dog" demon http://wapsisquare.com/comic/side-effect/?
I think I called this one "Mischief." Its origins are probably centered in her relationship with her street-fighting grandfather.
4) There are several references to "cat-" or "cat-like markings" on sphinxes & Monica- other than spraying the tires on my car, WTF is a cat-marking? I assume that's what those odd splotches along the nose are supposed to be? I don't think I've ever seen a cat that looked like it had been wearing really heavy spectacles before..
Back to that earlier picture of Bia with her daughter (Shelly): the little ovals next to Shelly's nose, looking like the nose pads for an unseen pair of glasses. If you've ever seen a cat, there is a small indention similar to the one on the side of Shel's nose, where the cat's eyes meet the "flat" of their nose. It makes their eyes "look" bigger - and it's how Paul indicates a "cat-like" marking on a para like Shel or Monica.
5) Earlier on, M's described several times a 'A' jag girl, not 'THE', but when she first pops (@ Phix) Tsillah says something about first sub-titan born in a million years- sooo, other sub-titans are millions of years old? Bia was a child during the chimera incident 10k-ish years ago- how bloody long had she been a child? What about Prometheus or Amnesia Cop- are they sub-titans, demigods or just divinely handsome? Others? Were folks titan-ing the shit out of Homo Eerectus?
Oooh, good question. The actual Greco-Roman Pantheon was rather... procreative... when it came to relationships and breeding. That comment was made a while back about Devyn, since Poseidon had a TON of paramours.

One thing that needs to be remembered: the calendar machine happened just before the Chimera blew everything to pieces. That was 10,500 years BCE. Add 2012, multiply that by 57, and add three... well, you get the picture. Not quite a million years, but long enough that crap's gone down for a while.

Justin appears to be similar to Monica - an "enhanced mortal". He may be in the same boat as Tina 1.0 - born with a god-like gift to self-repair. Heck, it would not surprise me at all if Justin and Tina were distant relatives.
6)What's with all the extra floppy, flappy bits on mermaid arms and fin hands & stuff? They've got tails- why wouldn't they porpoise around?- What would they need paddle-hands for? They don't need to use their arms like a human. Hell, this lady http://wapsisquare.com/comic/this-is-better/ looks like she'd break her own neck if she dove wrong.
They're called "gills". Fish tend to use them for breathing. And those tentacles look a lot like a catfish's.

As for that mermaid, I'd have to go with Bellisario's Maxim: Don't observer this too closely. Paul was trying to show that there were other odd-shaped paras at the mall, without thinking about fleshing any of them out until later.
7) So the Berenstain Twins are NA- I get it. Why all the dream catchers and crap? Why do they apparently live in a log cabin? I'm no social-justice warrior, but that seems a bit tacky.
They are Cherokee in background, and therefore have a big connection to native American culture. And a log cabin home in Minnesota is not what you think. Take a look here if you don't believe me. I suspect that Berdine and Nadette's parents might be rather well off - maybe they got involved with Microsoft, then took a job with a tech company in the Twin Cities area.
8) It appears that the only instance of Atsalsi's wings significantly damaging her top is the missile incident at the conclusion of Mapimi 2. Looks like every other shift has left her top largely intact. Even when Dette popped them in Mapimi- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/trust-us/ while the talisman was on.
If you look back, her shirt (as she was waiting for the Library to Vorp her back to the orphanage) had two holes in the back. Sometimes, it's just Pablo forgetting to draw the damage.
Speaking of Sali- my big one.

Why/how did Sali become autistically oblivious?

Even leaving aside the Anasazi adventure- who knows- maybe half-sirens go brain-dead after they.. explode into puberty.. she seems to have devolved, at least socially.

Back here- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/the-sound-of-my-voice/, she used a sexually-charged (if not quite sexual) intimate encounter to demonstrate her worries to Berdine. Sali inquired about Berdine's sexuality, and then showed that she could overcome even that with her power, and displayed wisdom in using said power. The many incidents of Dette's physical affection, even kisses never phased her. Sali was shown to be oblivious to Dette's feelings after Mapimi 2, but by that time, she would have been more likely lobotomized than simply "oblivious".
Atsali was trying to make a point there - and getting that close scared her. But when Nadette made that offhand comment, she immediately thought of Castela, not 'Dette - because her brain didn't make the connection.
But when Dette comes out and says, "hey, I'm gay", we've got the biggest breach of trust ever. I get the seemingly retconned reason for Sali's intimacy issues, but... I can't help but feel like needless pathos is being written for Sali on the mistaken premise that damage equals character development.
She apparently had this problem back when she was at the orphanage. It resulted in a traumatic event - finding that girl hanging herself. Mentally, she may be "shutting down" when it comes to interpersonal relationships.

Atsali has not been the brightest when it comes to interpersonal relationships (see today's strip for proof). Whether this is because of the Horned Demon Girl or because of the whole of Etheitian culture stampeding through her brain, who knows.
First, everybody (I know- only two out of twenty or so characters) turns out to have been raped, now, a- what? A spurned lover? An unrequited love?- does the hemp fandango over Sali's bed?

A person need not be incredibly damaged to be whole or interesting, is my point.
Ah, but we have already discovered that Atsali is damaged. When we found out she was from an orphanage, that changed her from being this "I'm an ADVENTURER!" persona to the bird-girl with wings and a ditzy outlook.

We all have things that have happened to us that affect who we are. Losing a parent, getting married, being forced to move because of a job... it all affects us.

The rape thing explains Monica's past very well. Something latent emerged from it, though - her eidetic memory, which led her to a job at a museum before she was 20-something.
Sooo, yeah- that's all that comes to mind right now.
Might want to look here for future questions... ;)
Last edited by jwhouk on Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"Character is what you are in the dark." - D.L. Moody
"You should never run from the voices in your head. That's how you give them power." - Jin
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Dave
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Re: Data required.

Post by Dave »

tophoo wrote:Simple stuff first:

1) What's up w' Lily's face- really sharp cheekbones and really hollow cheeks? I get that she doesn't seem to feed enough, but.. damn. Were the Anasazi known for that kind of thing?
The tribes I grew up around certainly aren't.
The Wapsiverse "Anasazi" may not have the same Native American heritage as our-universe Anasazi. In the Wapsiverse, the "Anasazi" (Ethetians) were the descendants of refugees from the Lanthian empire... which seems to have been largely north African.

And, to whatever extent the Ethetians had picked up some Native American heritage as well... Native American tribes are (consensus says) descended from north Asian (Siberian) ancestors, and there are plenty of strong cheek-bones in that heritage. Even among Native Americans today, there are many with such cheekbones - Geronimo comes to mind for one, and I know a doctoring woman among the Karuk who also has prominent cheekbones.

Besides... if I recall properly, she smokes. Immortal vampire or not, smoking tobacco regularly for centuries might tend to give you hollow cheeks. She's probably ingested enough nicotine over the years to kill a bull elephant.
tophoo wrote:2) Why do some of the ladies have racoon masks? Adult Bia is the prime example http://wapsisquare.com/comic/consequenc ... nipotence/of this, but Monica has appeared thus as well.
Periorbital dark circles can be an inherited thing (light, transparent skin, and blood vessels close to the skin). They're quite common among certain ethnic groups (I'm thinking of some in India). We have no idea what sort of heritages the Titans and Gods pass around...

As to Monica... the times I can recall her showing this, it was in times when she was angry, or otherwise taking on at least a bit of her Glyph Reader or Golem Controller or Jaguar Girl aspects.
tophoo wrote:3) What do y'all reckon is represented by Jet's "dog" demon http://wapsisquare.com/comic/side-effect/?
No particular idea, other than the possibility that demons may have a whimsical sense of humor.
tophoo wrote:4) There are several references to "cat-" or "cat-like markings" on sphinxes & Monica- other than spraying the tires on my car, WTF is a cat-marking? I assume that's what those odd splotches along the nose are supposed to be? I don't think I've ever seen a cat that looked like it had been wearing really heavy spectacles before..
Many of the big cats (especially those which hunt during the day) have dark "tear marks" or "tear lines" near the eye. The common explanation is that the darker fur in this area reduces the amount of sun-glare reflected into the eye.

http://bigcatrescue.org/cheetah-facts/
tophoo wrote:5) Earlier on, M's described several times a 'A' jag girl, not 'THE', but when she first pops (@ Phix) Tsillah says something about first sub-titan born in a million years- sooo, other sub-titans are millions of years old? Bia was a child during the chimera incident 10k-ish years ago- how bloody long had she been a child? What about Prometheus or Amnesia Cop- are they sub-titans, demigods or just divinely handsome? Others? Were folks titan-ing the shit out of Homo Eerectus?
The exact relationships and delineations between Wapsiverse gods, demigods, titans, and sub-titans hasn't been made entirely clear. It's apparent that many of them are effectively immortal by human standards (although perhaps not immune to death - Bud referred to kachinas as non-aging-but-could-die), and that quite a number of them are at least potentially inter-fertile with humans. Sphinxes in human form can interbreed with humans, and a lot of the Greek gods were notorious for impregnating human women.
tophoo wrote:6)What's with all the extra floppy, flappy bits on mermaid arms and fin hands & stuff? They've got tails- why wouldn't they porpoise aroun?- What would they need paddle-hands for? They don't need to use their arms like a human. Hell, this lady http://wapsisquare.com/comic/this-is-better/ looks like she'd break her own neck if she dove wrong.
One hypothesis: whenever you see quite-visible, but apparently-nonfunctional body parts, think "sexual display". Why does the male peacock have such an outrageous fan-tail?
tophoo wrote:7) So the Berenstain Twins are NA- I get it. Why all the dream catchers and crap? Why do they apparently live in a log cabin? I'm no social-justice warrior, but that seems a bit tacky.
At a guess (and it's just a guess), their ancestors have resided in North America for a very long time (possibly back to Lanthian times or before). They may have lived alongside human Native Americans for many centuries (or longer) and adopted much of their culture as "protective coloration"... pretty much in the same way that paras living in Europe might have adopted Greek culture.
tophoo wrote:8) It appears that the only instance of Atsalsi's wings significantly damaging her top is the missile incident at the conclusion of Mapimi 2. Looks like every other shift has left her top largely intact. Even when Dette popped them in Mapimi- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/trust-us/ while the talisman was on.
You may have to write this one off as "rule of funny" and author's practicality... the same reasons that Bruce Banner's shorts are the only thing which don't shred when he hulks out.
tophoo wrote:Speaking of Sali- my big one.

Why/how did Sali become autistically oblivious?
Even leaving aside the Anasazi adventure- who knows- maybe half-sirens go brain-dead after they.. explode into puberty.. she seems to have devolved, at least socially.
Back here- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/the-sound-of-my-voice/, she used a sexually-charged (if not quite sexual) intimate encounter to demonstrate her worries to Berdine. Sali inquired about Berdine's sexuality, and then showed that she could overcome even that with her power, and displayed wisdom in using said power. The many incidents of Dette's physical affection, even kisses never phased her. Sali was shown to be oblivious to Dette's feelings after Mapimi 2, but by that time, she would have been more likely lobotomized than simply "oblivious".
But when Dette comes out and says, "hey, I'm gay", we've got the biggest breach of trust ever. I get the seemingly retconned reason for Sali's intimacy issues, but...
I can't help but feel like needless pathos is being written for Sali on the mistaken premise that damage equals character development.
That's an issue which has yet to be explained. The whole time we've known her, she's been an interesting mix of "book-smart", "bird-brained", and "not terribly swift at catching social and emotional clues."

It's certainly possible that the surging, tumultuous emotions which come along with hitting puberty have made matters worse for her in this regard. She's got so much more of her own feelings to deal with, that she may be temporarily blinded to those of others.

As to just what sorts of pathos, characterization and character development, personal growth, blindness and perceptiveness, powers and vulnerabilities, etc. that Paul may decide to write for Atsali... that's his prerogative as author and creator.

My usual comment in cases like this is "Give it time." Wapsi is an evolving strip, and Paul has shown a strong tendency to spend significant effort building up plotlines and characterizations that don't fully mature for years thereafter.
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Re: Data required.

Post by shadowinthelight »

Not a great picture, but an example of cat markings.
Image
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Re: Data required.

Post by Catawampus »

tophoo wrote:And don't you jerky jerk-faces post spoilers in the comments! :roll:
It was really a fermented banana!
1) What's up w' Lily's face- really sharp cheekbones and really hollow cheeks? I get that she doesn't seem to feed enough, but.. damn. Were the Anasazi known for that kind of thing?
Considering that Suzie has called her out on her looks as well, I'm guessing that this is just a Lily thing, not an Anasazi thing. Not too many Anasazi selfies have been saved, though, so it's hard to say.
3) What do y'all reckon is represented by Jet's "dog" demon?
Doggedness?
4) There are several references to "cat-" or "cat-like markings" on sphinxes & Monica- other than spraying the tires on my car, WTF is a cat-marking? I assume that's what those odd splotches along the nose are supposed to be? I don't think I've ever seen a cat that looked like it had been wearing really heavy spectacles before..
Image

I'm guessing something like this kitty's. (I didn't have the best camera at the time and had to take the picture rather quickly, so it's not the best quality).
5) Earlier on, M's described several times a 'A' jag girl, not 'THE', but when she first pops (@ Phix) Tsillah says something about first sub-titan born in a million years- sooo, other sub-titans are millions of years old? Bia was a child during the chimera incident 10k-ish years ago- how bloody long had she been a child? What about Prometheus or Amnesia Cop- are they sub-titans, demigods or just divinely handsome? Others? Were folks titan-ing the shit out of Homo Eerectus?
Apparently Tsillah was just making up numbers when she said that, from what I've seen written. I've never actually seen the confirmation of that, though.
6)What's with all the extra floppy, flappy bits on mermaid arms and fin hands & stuff? They've got tails- why wouldn't they porpoise aroun?- What would they need paddle-hands for? They don't need to use their arms like a human. Hell, this lady http://wapsisquare.com/comic/this-is-better/ looks like she'd break her own neck if she dove wrong.
They might be useful for when they're just wanting to float in one place with only a little adjustment in position every now and then. Or they might just be ornamental.
7) So the Berenstain Twins are NA- I get it. Why all the dream catchers and crap? Why do they apparently live in a log cabin? I'm no social-justice warrior, but that seems a bit tacky.
I've known plenty of people from India who have kitschy Indian stuff all over their homes, people from China with stereotypical Chinese stuff all over their homes, people from Germany with extravagantly German stuff all over their homes, and so on. I don't see why Native Americans would necessarily be any different.

Though are log cabins really a stereotype for them? I'd think that would be more tipis or igloos or longhouses. I've always seen log cabins associated more with the white settler types, who are more often than not portrayed as the antithesis of the natives.
8) It appears that the only instance of Atsalsi's wings significantly damaging her top is the missile incident at the conclusion of Mapimi 2. Looks like every other shift has left her top largely intact. Even when Dette popped them in Mapimi- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/trust-us/ while the talisman was on.
After falling off of the missile was not just wings, but also stretching her whole body out to the seven-foot-tall or whatever proportions. She'd only done that combination suddenly one other time, when she and Katherine were falling into the rubble pit when they first met. And that time, her proportions were a tad less extreme even when she supersized herself.
Why/how did Sali become autistically oblivious?
Even leaving aside the Anasazi adventure- who knows- maybe half-sirens go brain-dead after they.. explode into puberty.. she seems to have devolved, at least socially.
Read back over when she and Katherine went on their initial adventure, and she wasn't exactly the most perceptive egg in the basket even then. From what Katherine has said, at least part of that is a species trait. Combine that with worrying about social awkwardness and overcompensating by looking too hard and missing what's right in front of her, and she could get into a bit of difficulty.
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