Red Rover Comments Section:

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Just Old Al
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by Just Old Al »

Dave wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:31 am
Thank you ever so much for the imagery. :o :roll: :lol:
You are, as always, welcome...

I suggest a 2-week course of brain bleach,
"The Empire was founded on cups of tea, mate, and if you think I am going to war without one you are sadly mistaken."
FreeFlier
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by FreeFlier »

When the smoke started I thought they'd forgotten a rag . . .

Someone I knew forgot to remove a rag from the intake manifold and ran it through the engine! Rag threads everywhere!

--FreeFlier
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Just Old Al
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

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FreeFlier wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:37 pm When the smoke started I thought they'd forgotten a rag . . .
Heeheehee...who could possibly forget to take a rag out of an intake - and now uses tagged plastic plugs for that exact reason? [innocent]?

More seriously, this is a VERY common happening in the cold states where chassis oiling is done. The individuals involved (often not the sharpest spoons in the drawer) spray EVERYTHING - and smoke and stink for an hour or so is a common occurrence.
Someone I knew forgot to remove a rag from the intake manifold and ran it through the engine! Rag threads everywhere!

--FreeFlier
As regards the above, the more common happening is that the engine under repair is started and either runs extremely poorly or not at all. Hours of frantic diagnostic work takes place untiul the aforementioned rag is found and removed.

Why no, I've never done that.....[chagrin].
"The Empire was founded on cups of tea, mate, and if you think I am going to war without one you are sadly mistaken."
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Dave
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by Dave »

Just Old Al wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:23 am As regards the above, the more common happening is that the engine under repair is started and either runs extremely poorly or not at all. Hours of frantic diagnostic work takes place until the aforementioned rag is found and removed.

Why no, I've never done that.....[chagrin].
Seems as if an engine refit could benefit from operating-room protocols. One needs a medical assistant (akin to a circulating nurse) to keep track of the location and use of every single surgical sponge rag and clamp.
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jwhouk
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by jwhouk »

We had a bus fire here in AZ a few years back. One of the drivers used rags to check the fluids on his pusher diesel. Completely forgot he left the rag sitting on the engine. It worked its way down over the course of the morning and ignited as he was picking up students. He apparently wasn't a very clean individual, and the bus in question was an older model that had a few leaks...

Yeah, it caught fire.

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Just Old Al
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

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Dave wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:17 am Seems as if an engine refit could benefit from operating-room protocols. One needs a medical assistant (akin to a circulating nurse) to keep track of the location and use of every single surgical sponge rag and clamp.
Actually, it's usually not an issue if one has any discipline at all. As I have said before it's when one gets into a hurry that problems happen. Al's protocols and mine are identical because of that - I've been burned (figuratively and a time or two literally) by hurry and lack of coherent planning - hence why it's never become a major issue.

What I was taught long ago if one was using a cloth to cover an orifice was to ensure that it was visible and oversized for the task. This way, if you attempted to fit a cover with it in place it would interfere and you'd automatically remove it. Where you get buggered is when you stuff a rag in the intake and jam it RIGHT in there, so there's no external bit to warn you. Then, if you don't see it you're right and truly stuffed (as the actress said to the bishop).
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Just Old Al
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by Just Old Al »

jwhouk wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:00 am
Yeah, it caught fire.
Thankfully it was a Diesel and not a petrol engine...much less likely to go BANG.
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by lake_wrangler »

Just Old Al wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:10 pmAl's protocols and mine are identical because of that
Imagine that... It's as if one read the other's mind... :mrgreen:

(The real question is, who set their protocol in place first... :P )
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by FreeFlier »

Just Old Al wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:23 am
FreeFlier wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:37 pmWhen the smoke started I thought they'd forgotten a rag . . .
Heeheehee...who could possibly forget to take a rag out of an intake - and now uses tagged plastic plugs for that exact reason? [innocent]?
I think these guys drilled a board to bolt on.

Just Old Al wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:23 am
FreeFlier wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:37 pmSomeone I knew forgot to remove a rag from the intake manifold and ran it through the engine! Rag threads everywhere!
As regards the above, the more common happening is that the engine under repair is started and either runs extremely poorly or not at all. Hours of frantic diagnostic work takes place until the aforementioned rag is found and removed.

Why no, I've never done that.....[chagrin].
As I understood it, their response to poor idle was to "blip" the throttle . . .

I believe the engine in question was a big block Chevy . . . likely an overbored 454. It chewed up the pink/red shop rag and spit it out.

I'm not sure, but that might have been the Ozone Kid . . . he couldn't figure out where he was screwing up his prep work, but he was only getting 4-5 passes out of a 454 . . . They finally checked his driving procedure, and it turned out he was making the pass at 9000 rpm! They told him to drop it to 8000, and that resolved the "problem".

--FreeFlier
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Just Old Al
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by Just Old Al »

lake_wrangler wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:42 pm (The real question is, who set their protocol in place first... :P )
If you gotta ask...there ain't no use explainin'. :)

More seriously, it's something I've made a point of in every organization I've run, either business or personal.
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by FreeFlier »

Just Old Al wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:48 pm
lake_wrangler wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:42 pm(The real question is, who set their protocol in place first... :P )
If you gotta ask...there ain't no use explainin'. :)

More seriously, it's something I've made a point of in every organization I've run, either business or personal.
As long as you don't try to make a perfect protocol that prescribes the precise course of action for every single possibility . . .

That makes a protocol so cumbersome that nobody can or will use it.

This is, of course, what management at my last employer kept trying to do.

--FreeFlier
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Just Old Al
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by Just Old Al »

FreeFlier wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:14 am As long as you don't try to make a perfect protocol that prescribes the precise course of action for every single possibility . . .
That makes a protocol so cumbersome that nobody can or will use it.
--FreeFlier
Having spent a decade with IBM...yeah, I know better. :)
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by FreeFlier »

Just Old Al wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:54 am
FreeFlier wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:14 amAs long as you don't try to make a perfect protocol that prescribes the precise course of action for every single possibility . . .

That makes a protocol so cumbersome that nobody can or will use it.
Having spent a decade with IBM...yeah, I know better. :)
We were infested with MBAs . . . and we weren't allowed to fumigate.

The old manuals did cover all eventualities . . . by stating that the manual prescribed the standard course of action, and if the standard course wouldn't work, then the manual was to serve as a guide to work out something that did work.

In other words: if all else fails, improvise.

--FreeFlier
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lake_wrangler
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by lake_wrangler »

Just Old Al wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:48 pm
lake_wrangler wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:42 pm (The real question is, who set their protocol in place first... :P )
If you gotta ask...there ain't no use explainin'. :)
Methinks you've been hanging around women too long...

You're starting to sound like the stereotypical wife:
Husband: Is something wrong, honey?
Wife: Well, if you can't figure it out, I'm not telling you!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Warrl
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by Warrl »

It occurred to me late last night, while I was in the middle of something only partially related, that Al (the character) was wrong about one thing.

He not only should have insisted his interns spend some time driving the vehicle on the track, he should have informed them that this would happen before they started working on it. Also, he should have made a point of riding with them.

"Eat your own dog food."

THEY were fixing a car that other people's lives will depend on.

HE has been building a couple of auto mechanics / engineers that other people's lives will depend on.

(Heh, I'm reminded of a scene from another story. Emergency-services aircraft division. One of the bosses had maneuvered their head mechanic and that person's immediate supervisor out the door, so his nephew - underqualified and underexperienced and knew it - could be made the head mechanic. Between the new kid's obvious lack of confidence in his own work, and the failure of a 'copter he'd worked on to demonstrate even basic operability (AFTER his uncle had signed off on his work), the pilots similarly lost confidence in their mechanics and started refusing to fly. The boss in question called everyone into a meeting and informed the pilots that they could fly or be fired, no third choice - and they all stood up and walked out - and half a minute after they had cleared the door, all the paramedics stood up and walked out.)
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Just Old Al
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Re: Red Rover Comments Section:

Post by Just Old Al »

Warrl wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:09 pm It occurred to me late last night, while I was in the middle of something only partially related, that Al (the character) was wrong about one thing.
Only one thing? Old git's doing well.
He not only should have insisted his interns spend some time driving the vehicle on the track, he should have informed them that this would happen before they started working on it. Also, he should have made a point of riding with them.

"Eat your own dog food."

THEY were fixing a car that other people's lives will depend on.

HE has been building a couple of auto mechanics / engineers that other people's lives will depend on.
To be honest, that was his intention all along - that they as you say dine on their own dog food.

I He prefers a bit of a drop-bear approach on the whole thing - springing it on them. This way it's "oh, expletive, you mean I need to do this?" This was the source of "No, you're not driving!" to Beth - though he screwed up there and should have not said it as directly. If he had, there would have been less heat and light from a certain apprentice.

If either of the interns had strongly objected to driving at speed he would have excused them - and he'd have found some less-enjoyable way for them to get their dog-food serving.

He would never have let them go onto the track without him - while nominal adults they are in his employ, so guidance is mandatory.

This was a fairly low-risk way for Al to instill (as you phrase it) the proper taste for dog food. They get to test drive their work, he gets to test drive their attitudes, and everyone has a grand day out.

Even if worse had come to worst that RRS would have kept them alive - RRs are extraordinarily tough vehicles in crash situations. The stories of collisions in the tale are not fictional.

SO, I think we agree, Warrl, except on the when...
"The Empire was founded on cups of tea, mate, and if you think I am going to war without one you are sadly mistaken."
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