Wapsi Square Forum

Warthog to the rescue!

Cue 'Men in Black'

'Hogs aren't particularly noted for air-to-air, are they?

I've mainly heard of them in an air-to-ground role.

I remember on "Wings of War" series for the Learning Channel where they were doing something on the first Gulf War. They spoke with a proud Warthog pilot who got a helicopter kill. The Iranian helicopter was hovering low, hiding behind a large sand dune and he was flying high when he noticed it. He rolled into an attack vector and put 'nine or ten' rounds into it.
I think it may have been the warthogs first air to air victory ever...

Fairportfan wrote:'Hogs aren't particularly noted for air-to-air, are they?

I've mainly heard of them in an air-to-ground role.

True, but I seem to recall them mounting sidewinders from time to time.

Oh, they can do air-to-air if pressed - they're highly maneuverable, just not all that fast in comparison; they're able to carry Stingers and Sidewinders, mainly for self-defense against actual interceptors and other things too fast to lead effectively.

against things like helicopters, though, all they really need is the GAU-8 - a chopper ain't nothin' against a gun that can turn tank armor into modern art...

I just wonder who's fielding it - the A-10 is a fairly specialized lump, AFAIK only the USAF has them.

Fairportfan wrote:'Hogs aren't particularly noted for air-to-air, are they?

I've mainly heard of them in an air-to-ground role.

They are, but one A10 got an air to air kill on a Hind during Desert Storm. That 30mm anti armor cannon will take out a helicopter just fine. As far as the players, the helo is a OH58 Kiowa variant, which is widely available as the Bell Jet Ranger and is wide use with multiple millitaries around the middle east. The A10 (the plane) is used exclusively by the US Air Force. The likely suspect for the OH58 is Israel, though. We sell them a lot of millitary aircraft, and while they are US allies, we have had strained relations from time to time. (See the assault on the USS Liberty.)If this happened during Desert Storm, it would explain some friendly fire confusion. Kath and her group may have been mistaken for a millitary unit and attacked, with the Warthog knocking down an enemy combatant as part of fighting a war.

Yeaaa Warthog.

Now is there any ground support in the area. If not the Kathy has a long walk to safety. Or will she be taken captive by the attackers?

Jabberwonky wrote:I remember on "Wings of War" series for the Learning Channel where they were doing something on the first Gulf War. They spoke with a proud Warthog pilot who got a helicopter kill. The Iranian helicopter was hovering low, hiding behind a large sand dune and he was flying high when he noticed it. He rolled into an attack vector and put 'nine or ten' rounds into it.
I think it may have been the warthogs first air to air victory ever...

A-1 Skyraiders took down two MiGs in Viet Nam - i believe in one case what happened was that the A_1 got bounced, pulled into a dive and outdived the MiG; when he pulled up he was able to rake the belly of the MiG as it passed over.

As the A-1H Skyraider carried four 20mm cannon ...

Ah, found this. I was wrong about the number of rounds, though.
From the article:
"On the final pass, I shot about 300 bullets at him. That's a pretty good burst. On the first pass, maybe 75 rounds. The second pass, I put enough bullets down, it looked like I hit with a bomb.

"We tried to ID the helicopter after we were done and it was just in a bunch of little pieces, so we can't tell what type it was."

Now we know why her team was killed; They just found themselves in the middle of someone else's war. It is horrifying how many have faced that fate in real life.

Looks like the good guys have shown up. Well, if not the good guys, at least the other side. I have the feeling there is more hell for our Kath yet though. Not that this wasn't enough, but it would seem like it would take more to really turn her into a hermit for so long. If there are more coming, seems like the plane could take care of them too. I would also think they would figure more from the other side is on the way as well and would get the hell out of Dodge while the gettin's good. Jackals like these murderers aren't usually known for their bravery.

KnightDelight wrote:Looks like the good guys have shown up. Well, if not the good guys, at least the other side. I have the feeling there is more hell for our Kath yet though. Not that this wasn't enough, but it would seem like it would take more to really turn her into a hermit for so long. If there are more coming, seems like the plane could take care of them too. I would also think they would figure more from the other side is on the way as well and would get the hell out of Dodge while the gettin's good. Jackals like these murders aren't usually known for their bravery.

I'm hoping this was the relevant part. Kath and the other students got caught in the middle of a war. Everyone died but her. Unless there's some other revalation, I think we've seen what we needed to see. Barring her being captured by someone and held, we know she survives. The dig team likely had vehicles, and if the dig was registered, someone offical knows they're out there. Getting out won't be that hard. Dealing with what happened? That will be hell for her.

Edit; On a technical note, the OH58 can carry an array of armament. The starbord pylon has a universal hard point that can accept a five shot 70mm rocket pod, a Hellfire antitank missile or a 7.62mm M134 six barreled minigun. The port side normally mounts a an M2HB .50 caliber machine gun on the fusalage allong with a second universal pylon. This one was at an airshow. It had a Hellfire missle on the starbord side and the rocket pod on the port. You can just make out the M2 barrel in front of the pod. The big rectagular thing on the airframe is the ammo can for the MaDuce.

Fairportfan wrote:'Hogs aren't particularly noted for air-to-air, are they? I've mainly heard of them in an air-to-ground role.

The A-10 was designed for air-to-ground. But they could mount air-to-air missiles, and often did. Also, in dogfighting it turns out that the cannon designed to take out tanks works really well on lightweight unarmored aluminum aircraft.

The presense of the A-10 makes this hard to justify if they are on a dig at the Dead Sea.

Now if they were on a dig at Babylon in the period after Desert Storm this would make a lot of sense.

Crazy implausible speculation: This also explains her nudism, disrobing to deal with the desert heat of that day permanently etched into her subconscious by such a horrific ordeal.

shadowinthelight wrote:Crazy implausible speculation: This also explains her nudism, disrobing to deal with the desert heat of that day permanently etched into her subconscious by such a horrific ordeal.

Without sun block the resulting sunburn could be life threatening. Not to mention the scrapes and chaffing from the sand getting places you don't want to talk about.

OK, the big question: Is it going to capture-escape-trek back to civilization, just the trek, or rescue? My vote is for the 1st if we are going to get to the new Kathryn.

Here's the thing...given that Katherine seems to be the lone survivor of a heinous helicopter ambush, how was it that she was able to keep it together (by comparison) when a helicopter showed up @ Mesa Verde? Maybe this did not traumatize her as much as one would think.

And why is the helicopter still aiming at the site, instead of going after Katherine?

I'll be in the corner...with kettle corn...

My2Cents wrote:

shadowinthelight wrote:Crazy implausible speculation: This also explains her nudism, disrobing to deal with the desert heat of that day permanently etched into her subconscious by such a horrific ordeal.

Without sun block the resulting sunburn could be life threatening. Not to mention the scrapes and chaffing from the sand getting places you don't want to talk about.

OK, the big question: Is it going to capture-escape-trek back to civilization, just the trek, or rescue? My vote is for the 1st if we are going to get to the new Kathryn.

OK I see my wording was a little vague. I meant how she disrobes now because of the heat burned into her subconscious then.

shadowinthelight wrote:

My2Cents wrote:

shadowinthelight wrote:Crazy implausible speculation: This also explains her nudism, disrobing to deal with the desert heat of that day permanently etched into her subconscious by such a horrific ordeal.

Without sun block the resulting sunburn could be life threatening. Not to mention the scrapes and chaffing from the sand getting places you don't want to talk about.

OK, the big question: Is it going to capture-escape-trek back to civilization, just the trek, or rescue? My vote is for the 1st if we are going to get to the new Kathryn.

OK I see my wording was a little vague. I meant how she disrobes now because of the heat burned into her subconscious then.

I remember stories of Chosin Resivior veterans who couldn't sleep if the temperature was above 60 degrees. Fighting in the freezing cold burned it into thier pysche, and made them intolerant of warmer temperatures.

Boxilar wrote: I'm hoping this was the relevant part. Kath and the other students got caught in the middle of a war. Everyone died but her. Unless there's some other revelation, I think we've seen what we needed to see.

I sure hope so. I can't get the images of the previous two days out of my head and I really don't need bloody in-your-face carnage popping into my thoughts all day long. We get enough carnage in real life.

I read these comics to escape from the RL agravations by getting engrossed in a good story. The images of the bloodshed at the dig defeats that objective. Paul is a fabulous storyteller and he has made his point. In spades! He has given us over eleven years of great stories without such personal violence. I hope we can have eleven more.