Re: Vote.
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:00 pm
Good thing the military surplus store my brother and I just checked out carries body armor. We'd still meed the ceramic plates, of course...
3rd court throws out Trump campaign appeal in fraud caseJudge Stephanos Bibas (Trump Judicial Appointee) wrote:“Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.”
Pollster wrote:9. "We are told that Biden won more votes nationally than any presidential candidate in history. But he won a record low of 17 percent of counties; he only won 524 counties, as opposed to the 873 counties Obama won in 2008. Yet, Biden somehow outdid Obama in total votes."
Yup... that, and the fact that counties vary widely in their size and population. Losing a few percent of voters in a few small counties would have much less impact on the total vote, than an equivalent-percent increase in one or two much larger counties.
Not under US law and the Constitution. There is no provision for discarding the results of the vote, and re-voting. The next "do-over" will be the 2024 election.lake_wrangler wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:39 pm At this point, with all the evidence showing up, I'd say it's no longer just a question of how much of a margin may have been obtained in one direction or the other, as much as the fact that the election has been so tainted, that we can't really tell how bad it really was and this election cannot really be trusted.
Is there any way to get a do-over?
Well, he's definitely gonna collect contributions like he's gokng to run - in the month since Election Day the Trump campaign has raised more money than it did the whole previous quarter.Challenger007 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:13 amThis is a joke? Or is he really going to run again? I will not say that he was the worst president. But he is very scandalous and very harsh in his statements, which repels many people from him.
In the Presidential election, no way for a do-over. The closest that can happen is that vote counts be thrown out as corrupted beyond resolution, and the job of choosing electors in the affected states reverts to the state legislatures. The throwing-out can be done by either courts or the affected state legislatures.lake_wrangler wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:39 pm At this point, with all the evidence showing up, I'd say it's no longer just a question of how much of a margin may have been obtained in one direction or the other, as much as the fact that the election has been so tainted, that we can't really tell how bad it really was and this election cannot really be trusted.
Is there any way to get a do-over?
Yup. Changing the rules "after the fact" (or trying to) is something that the courts don't look on at all kindly.
From what I hear, he didn't say there was no evidence of fraud, just not any evidence of massive enough fraud to ultimately affect the outcome.
Irregularities have occurred in every big election ever held, anywhere. No human process is perfect. There will always be some votes which are miscounted by error, rejected improperly, or accepted improperly. There will always be some votes by people who (for one reason or another) weren't eligible to vote. There will always be some legitimate votors whose attempt to vote will be blocked or suppressed unfairly (poll taxes, polling places moved or shut down, new Votor ID requirements that are impossible for some people to meet, etc.)lake_wrangler wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:10 pm All those affidavits from all those people, claiming irregularities are still there, those irregularities still did occur.
Thanks in part to the fact that Trump et al had been ranting about "rigged elections" for years (since well before his 2016 victory) this election process seems to have received more careful preparation and scrutiny than prior elections did.My personal thought is that while irregularities (and possible fraud) did occur, they occurred in such a way that it would be very difficult to prove how it would have affected the result. Short of a more closely watched do-over, which, as has been pointed out already, is apparently not really an option, there isn't be much that can be done. But I can see that if, indeed, the point of an "undecided election" could be reached, I can't blame President Trump for trying to reach that point.
Thanks for the laugh. I had not heard of that concept. Reading about it made me actually laugh out loud (as opposed to people who claim "LOL", but don't actually laugh...)Dave wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:06 pmA bunch of the more far-out claims made by Trump and some of his supporters are versions of what I call the Great Conspiratorial Thesis. It amounts to something along the lines of "There was a massive conspiracy. It's obvious it happened. But, it was done, and covered up with such skill and subtlety that there's no actual evidence of it. The very lack of evidence proves that a conspiracy existed. Anyone who argues that there wasn't a conspiracy is a tool of the conspiracy."
You can "prove" any sort of wild claims with this kind of argument. You can use this argument to try to excuse any defeat.
Yes. And I fear that may be difficult, if not impossible, to get. It's disappointing, but they may never be able to prove it without a shadow of a doubt...
Well, Hillary Clinton did tell Joe Biden never to concede... What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?Dave wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:06 pmThe political system in the US has long favored an approach in which the losing candidates concede gracefully, even if the margin is small. The loser supports the democratic system, for the good of the country. Trump is not doing that. He has said that he will never concede.
It was very popular with Bill Clinton's detractors...lake_wrangler wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:10 pmThanks for the laugh. I had not heard of that concept. Reading about it made me actually laugh out loud (as opposed to people who claim "LOL", but don't actually laugh...)Dave wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:06 pmA bunch of the more far-out claims made by Trump and some of his supporters are versions of what I call the Great Conspiratorial Thesis. It amounts to something along the lines of "There was a massive conspiracy. It's obvious it happened. But, it was done, and covered up with such skill and subtlety that there's no actual evidence of it. The very lack of evidence proves that a conspiracy existed. Anyone who argues that there wasn't a conspiracy is a tool of the conspiracy."
You can "prove" any sort of wild claims with this kind of argument. You can use this argument to try to excuse any defeat.