Wapsi Square Forum

What a revelation this who sequence was. It answered a whole lot of questions while raising many more, as usual. So by the action line:
1. Bia wanted a titan who could change shape for some reason of her own. Only way was to cross breed with a chape changing species. Any other mate and Bia only gets very strong, normal length life human-titian child.
2. For some reason Phix gets busy and produces a male child, Shellies father. That is a story in itself as to who the other side of the story belongs to.
3. Bia convices Phix the her child should not be raised the library but on earth. Phix goes to the effort of changing shape to become his best friend as the boy grew up. One way for a mom to keep an eye on her son, talk about a dedicated mom. I do wonder how Phix got around the requirement of being confined to the library during this period though. There must be some loop hole available.
4. Now Bia re-enters the picture and marries Phix's son. Eventually Shelly is born. If I was Bia I would be worried about having Phix as a mother-in-law but obviously she isn't.
5. All of this is kept hidden from Shelly.
6. While in Sphinx training Bia shows up and drops the verbal atomic bomb. Now we wait for the fall out.

Points to consider.
1. How is Bia connected to the whole calendar mess? She is because it was she who gave the crystal figurines to Shelly and told her to keep them safe. So in some way she must have been monitoring the entire mess and trying to help fix it. So there has to be some sort of connection to Barndi, Jin, or Bud.
2. By the manipulation she has done it is clear that she sees the whole world as her property. She will do anything she decides she has to do for her own purpose. She also does not consider the cost to others with her acts either. A lot of people are going to be paying for this action of hers for a long time. Shelly may never forgive Phix. When she finds out Bia IS mommy I would not want to be in the same time-space matrix at all. Please not Dad is in the dark about most of this as well. I hope Paul does do strips about Shelly asking her dad about this.
3. Did nudge have anything to do with this? I suspect she did. How else could she know the details she does?
4. What reason does Bia have that requires a titian with shape changing abilities? An immortal one at that! Does she need a super spy? The pefect assain? A replacement so she can retire and go off on a loooong vacation?

I'm sure there are others as well. I posted this as during that week the comments section of the strip were turned off prior to this forum going active. So let's give everyone a chance to chime in and speculate about the new information we have found out about.

Phix hasn't always been unable to leave the library. That was only recently (in cosmic terms), because of Tina's death in this timeline - approximately 10-15 years ago.

zachariah wrote: 3. Bia convices Phix the her child should not be raised the library but on earth. Phix goes to the effort of changing shape to become his best friend as the boy grew up. One way for a mom to keep an eye on her son, talk about a dedicated mom. I do wonder how Phix got around the requirement of being confined to the library during this period though. There must be some loop hole available.

Mmmm.. Disagree. From the For Petesake strip, I took it that Bia talked Phix into putting Phix's son on earth to grow up, then Bia transformed to become a childhood friend, later to marry said son. This leaves Phix still trapped in the library, so no loophole Thus Bia became Shelly's physical Mother, and Phix's is Shelly's fraternal grandmother.

Later, while Shelly was a child, Bia (as mom) forced a heart attack to inspire Shelly's vision quest, etc.

So - Who is Shelly's fraternal grandfather? There's a whole 'nother plot line right there, folks!

In the meantime, I think Shelly is in the process of forgiving Nudge and Phix. They've both been played, right along with her. Bia, on the other hand, is in for a rough time from Shelly.

jwhouk wrote:Phix hasn't always been unable to leave the library. That was only recently (in cosmic terms), because of Tina's death in this timeline - approximately 10-15 years ago.

Wait...How was Tina's death the reason that Phix couldn't leave the Library? I thought that she'd insinuated that her "imprisonment" there was because of the book destroying incident.

zachariah wrote:Points to consider...
2. By the manipulation she has done it is clear that she sees the whole world as her property. She will do anything she decides she has to do for her own purpose. She also does not consider the cost to others with her acts either. A lot of people are going to be paying for this action of hers for a long time. Shelly may never forgive Phix. When she finds out Bia IS mommy I would not want to be in the same time-space matrix at all. Please not Dad is in the dark about most of this as well. I hope Paul does do strips about Shelly asking her dad about this.
3. Did nudge have anything to do with this? I suspect she did. How else could she know the details she does?

On point 2: I would imagine that Shelly's dad is in the dark about this. After all, he only would have spent his very early years in The Library, and chances are very good that he doesn't remember the experience. If aging wasn't enough to help him forget, I'm sure he could have convinced himself that he dreamed the whole thing. And there's NO way that he knows about Bia. She faked her own death and left him and their daughter behind! If he knows anything about that, then he's a crappy parent for not saying something to his daughter about it.

On point 3: Nudge doesn't have to be involved in the mess to be aware of it. I know all of the details of many movies I've watched or books I've read, but I'm neither a character in those stories nor was I involved in the creation of the stories. Witnesses can see many things. People living in libraries can learn many things. *shrugs* I'd give her the benefit of the doubt on this one until she gives us reason to believe otherwise...especially given how she reacted to Shelly's pain.

Atomic wrote:

zachariah wrote: So - Who is Shelly's fraternal grandfather? There's a whole 'nother plot line right there, folks!

Could be. Where You Come From says Shelly's father was the 'half human child of a sphinx', so he's human. If he's still around he'd be really old though.

Maybe sphinxes go the black widow route and Phix ate him. (kidding )

zachariah wrote:What a revelation this who sequence was. It answered a whole lot of questions while raising many more, as usual. So by the action line:
1. Bia wanted a titian who could change shape for some reason of her own.

Hunch - it has to do with Sibyl (the Oracle's) prophesy that Bia would have a descendent who would "put the powers right".

2. For some reason Phix gets busy and produces a male child, Shellies father. That is a story in itself as to who the other side of the story belongs to.

My hunch here - Phix may have had an affair with a human male (Shelly's grandfather) while on "shore leave" from her enforced duty in the Library. Tina's comments some time back suggest that female sphinxes have a reputation for having affairs with humans, but that they "get bored" fairly quickly (and we've seen Phix is currently involved with Monica's boss, which could lead to him becoming Shelly's step-grandfather )

3. Bia convices Phix the her child should not be raised the library but on earth. Phix goes to the effort of changing shape to become his best friend as the boy grew up. One way for a mom to keep an eye on her son, talk about a dedicated mom. I do wonder how Phix got around the requirement of being confined to the library during this period though. There must be some loop hole available.

I think you're misinterpreting what Nudge said. It was Bia who changed form, "became" the boy's childhood friend, "grew up" with him, and eventually married him and bore Shelly.

I don't think Phix knew this, until Nudge "admiringly" let the cat out of the bag and Bia didn't deny it. That's why Phix was went from sorrowful tears, to enough rage to punch a Titan right out through the wall of the library. Phix gave up her son, having been convinced (presumably by Bia and/or the other Powers) that it was in the boy's best interest to have no contact with the paranormal world... and then Bia snuck in covertly and enmeshed herself in his life, presumably with the explicit goal of bearing his son.

No wonder Phix was mad.

4. Now Bia re-enters the picture and marries Phix's son. Eventually Shelly is born. If I was Bia I would be worried about having Phix as a mother-in-law but obviously she isn't.

From what Phix said ("I'm no Titan, but you're on my turf"), outside of the special Library environment (which we've been told is protecting Phix from harm) it's entirely possible that Bia, as a Titan, is powerful enough to clobber Phix.

5. All of this is kept hidden from Shelly.
6. While in Sphinx training Bia shows up and drops the verbal atomic bomb. Now we wait for the fall out.

I think it's significant that Shelly did not immediately drop back into rage and anger when this multiplex bombshell landed on her shoulders. Either she's learning to control her temper, or she realizes that the huge mindf**k she's just been handed, is orders of magnitude more profound than simply having somebody "set up" a potential boyfriend for her... or both. This is really earth-shattering information she's been given (and it isn't even all the truth - Bia lied to her outright about not being her mother, it seems).

Points to consider.
1. How is Bia connected to the whole calendar mess? She is because it was she who gave the crystal figurines to Shelly and told her to keep them safe. So in some way she must have been monitoring the entire mess and trying to help fix it. So there has to be some sort of connection to Barndi, Jin, or Bud.

Very good point.

In particular, I'm wondering about the role (and identity) of the Shelly women (or their close analogs) in the earlier CM loops. Were they, also, children of Bia and grandchildren of Phix? We don't know whether Bia was trapped in the CM loops like most characters, trapped but with memory like Jin, or outside the loop like Phix was. We do know that Phix was not trapped in the time loops - so it's entirely possible that she did not have affairs with human males in the earlier loops, and that the "Shelly" characters in those loops were fundamentally different (not quarter-sphinx).

In the Time Forest, Shelly-sphinx (57) told Shelly-1 that both of them were sphinxes, born as human. This would imply that all of the Shellys had a sphinx heritage. However, this may not be true... at that time, Shelly(57) believed that her sphinx ancestry was very distant, and that her change was the result of recessive genes coming together. Based on recent revelations, it looks as if she was wrong... she's a much more direct descendent of a full-blood sphinx!

So, it's possible that she's the only Shelly to have strong sphinx ancestry (and possibly even the only one to be Bia's daughter... the other Shellys and analogs might have been the daughters of a real Comanche woman rather than a Titan masquerading as one?)

This might explain why Shelly-57 was the only Shelly to actually transform and survive in the Time Forest... in addition to having Connie as a protector, she might have been the only Shelly with a strong enough sphinx ancestry for this to even be a possibility.

2. By the manipulation she has done it is clear that she sees the whole world as her property. She will do anything she decides she has to do for her own purpose. She also does not consider the cost to others with her acts either. A lot of people are going to be paying for this action of hers for a long time.

Fairly typical for how Titans and Greek gods have been portrayed.

I'm reminded of the way G'kar described the First Ones: "They walk among the stars, vast and timeless... and we have as much chance of communicating with them, as an ant has with us. We know... we've tried... and we've learned that we can either stay out of the way, or be stepped upon."

3. Did nudge have anything to do with this? I suspect she did. How else could she know the details she does?

She was clearly "in the know" somehow, and I'd guess had been under some kind of orders or influence to not tell Shelly the truth about her heritage. It was a nice trick she pulled off, revealing the truth to Phix and Monica and Euryale by "complementing" Bia on her subtle actions. Memo - never try to scam the friend of a trickster!

4. What reason does Bia have that requires a titian with shape changing abilities? An immortal one at that! Does she need a super spy? The pefect assain? A replacement so she can retire and go off on a loooong vacation?

My guess, per above - it has something to do with the prophesy that a descendent of Bia will "put the powers right", bringing back some sort of balance which went awry when the Lanthians created the Chimera and slagged their whole civilization down into glass. Bia sees it as being a very difficult and hazardous path - Shelly will "live through times which would make one beg for death" but that Shelly has been made strong enough to take it (at the cost of her humanity, which seems to be the aspect that freaks Shelly out the most).

Aleister Crow wrote:Could be. Where You Come From says Shelly's father was the 'half human child of a sphinx', so he's human. If he's still around he'd be really old though)

Thank you ever so much for "really old"

If I understand the timeline correctly, Shelly's in her early-to-mid 20's. Her father could be anywhere from mid-40s up to about 60, I suppose... my vague memory from seeing him portrayed, is that he's no more than 50-ish... born 1960-1965, perhaps? Hence, her grandfather might be anywhere from somewhere in his 60s, to maybe 80... 70 years of age is probably around the center of the bell-curve.

It has occurred to me that Bia may have wanted to have a child with a Demi-Sphinx because she did not want to watch her child grow old and die like other Demi-Titan children. I wonder how many times she has had children in the past with mortals and if any of them made an impact in the world (For all we know Monica, Katherine or even Luci might be related to Shelly).

Jin was one of the if not the central player in the calender machine loop conspiracy. Don't be surprised if she was the one who directed Bia on when to do what for her endgame plan.

jwhouk wrote:Phix hasn't always been unable to leave the library. That was only recently (in cosmic terms), because of Tina's death in this timeline - approximately 10-15 years ago.

Nope. Phix has been stuck in the Library ever since Nudge escaped by tricking her into destroying a book while she was doing the riddle thing with Oedipus.

Aleister Crow wrote:

Atomic wrote:

zachariah wrote: So - Who is Shelly's fraternal grandfather? There's a whole 'nother plot line right there, folks!

Could be. Where You Come From says Shelly's father was the 'half human child of a sphinx', so he's human. If he's still around he'd be really old though.

Maybe sphinxes go the black widow route and Phix ate him. (kidding )

I still think Shelly and Monica are cousins but don't know it.

Ol' Aaron got around.

Mark N wrote:For all we know Monica, Katherine or even Luci might be related to Shelly.

G'pa Sullivan!

But it would be funny if Luci finds out about the whole Other World aspect of Shelly's life and that they are cousins...

shadowinthelight wrote:Jin was one of the if not the central player in the calender machine loop conspiracy. Don't be surprised if she was the one who directed Bia on when to do what for her endgame plan.

...and introduced Phix to Monica's G'pa...

On point 2: I would imagine that Shelly's dad is in the dark about this.

Could be, could be not, at least on some parts of it. Remember the incident where Shelly (played? Sang? produced a note) in the vicinity of the diamond statuettes - and lost part of a day. Dad was concerned, but not freaked. Why not?

Fairportfan wrote:But it would be funny if Luci finds out about the whole Other World aspect of Shelly's life and that they are cousins...

Luci and this new guy both are freckled, and some seem to opine that they might both be redheads. Any chance that they are related?

Re: Bia, Phix, Shelly - A Family Affair 23-27 July

by Fairportfan » Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:47 pm
jwhouk wrote:
Phix hasn't always been unable to leave the library. That was only recently (in cosmic terms), because of Tina's death in this timeline - approximately 10-15 years ago.

Nope. Phix has been stuck in the Library ever since Nudge escaped by tricking her into destroying a book while she was doing the riddle thing with Oedipus.

This is a reply to Fairportfan. No, Phix was not completely confined to The Library. She was given leave at times to hunt for a certain Trickster. I assume that another sphinx took over for her as per treaty with The Library. So Phix could've had time to "get busy" once in a while; apparently, she neglected or didn't care to use protection and as sometimes happens 'oops.' Or maybe she felt like having a child, but if she did, I can't imagine her being talked into giving him up.

Dave wrote:

zachariah wrote: Points to consider.
1. How is Bia connected to the whole calendar mess? She is because it was she who gave the crystal figurines to Shelly and told her to keep them safe. So in some way she must have been monitoring the entire mess and trying to help fix it. So there has to be some sort of connection to Barndi, Jin, or Bud.

Very good point.

In particular, I'm wondering about the role (and identity) of the Shelly women (or their close analogs) in the earlier CM loops. Were they, also, children of Bia and grandchildren of Phix? We don't know whether Bia was trapped in the CM loops like most characters, trapped but with memory like Jin, or outside the loop like Phix was. We do know that Phix was not trapped in the time loops - so it's entirely possible that she did not have affairs with human males in the earlier loops, and that the "Shelly" characters in those loops were fundamentally different (not quarter-sphinx).

Yes, but it's also entirely possible that they are all descendants of Bia. They were enough alike for Shelly (and the audience) to mistake them for Shelly 57. So either Bia is able to mimic genetics perfectly or she had 57 Shellys (or both). Remember, the other 56 Shellys had to have been born to some woman. If not Bia, then who did Bia kick out of the way to take the place of? Did Phix have to try 56 times, too?

Since Nudge and the apos also seem immune to forgetting the time loops, it's safe to assume a Titan would be as well.

Shelly's bio page says she has seven older brothers. This means Bia may have had 456 children over the period of the loops, 448 of which were crushed out of existence by the Calendar resets.

And those are just the Wahnees. A lot of people get born in 80,000 years, and Bia sounded like she was talking about quite a bit of trial and error before... making Shelly 57.

There's been growing attention on huge families, thanks to reality shows and other news about them. The parental attention paid each child dwindles with the increased number the parents have, just like classroom size. Younger children are effectively raised by their siblings, who in turn have less time for themselves.

Considering the mythic levels of producing life that the Titans were known for, it's amazing Bia paid Shelly any attention at all.

---

As for Bia's personality, it's natural to hate a cold, distant and cruel mother. Nudge chose the perfect moment to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted, and allowed Phix a long-needed moment of vengeance.

But Bia doesn't strike me as emotionless, or even lacking self reflection. ("I'm the dysfunctional one!") She even is aware that Shelly is "doing good", and seems to approve of this. There's a reason Sibyl predicted it would be a descendant of hers to restore the balance, and I suspect it is that Bia has capacities that make her more empathetic than other Titans... not that that may be saying much from our perspective, but it may prove to be enough to right some of the indifference in the world.

I resubmit the following. What did Tepoz know, and how did he know it?

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/didyouhearme/

Fairportfan wrote:

shadowinthelight wrote:Jin was one of the if not the central player in the calender machine loop conspiracy. Don't be surprised if she was the one who directed Bia on when to do what for her endgame plan.

...and introduced Phix to Monica's G'pa...

Well we never did hear anything about G'ma Sullivan

Nice discussion everyone. I think we are getting somewhere just not sure where. lol.

Points
1. Bia set this up for the prophecy. Reference strip Where You Came From. Other reasons too but that seems to be the main one.
2. Phix was locked in the library. Ref: A Place to Grow.
3. It was Bia who took the child shape and grow up with Shelly's dad. Ref: For Petesake. Sorry but I misread the comment and drew the wrong inference.
4. Monica's G'pa is not Shelly's grandfather. Shelly is native americian. Phix is Shpi9nx, Bia is Titian. Where else could the native americian come from but the grandfather? Monica's G'Pa was not native americian.
5. Shelly's dad is totally in the dark about this and I now wonder of Shelly will talk to him about it.
6. Monica heard all that nudge said so she knows the family secret about Bia being Mommy. Will she tell Shelly? I think she will but it will take her time to work up the courage. Monica knows how much the loss of the mom hurt Shelly. To know it was deliberate on Bia's part will really hurt Shelly. But once over the hurt that will make Shelly very distrustful of anything Bia tries to get her to do.
7. Phix needs a hug. Somebody call Brandi.

- It is fun toe speculate but never let speculation overcome reality.