Wapsi Square Forum

On the main Wapsi page, Paul introduced two new characters, both vampires. This should be interesting. As I recall, Phix has a very low opinion of werewolves and vampires. What did she call them, the annoying mosquitoes of the supernatural world? It will be interesting to see if Paul presents them in some sort of "misunderstood" light like Phix or Euryale. That is, they seem like bad people, but they're really not. Maybe these girls are vegetarians and only drink chlorophyll. Or only take a small amount from each victim or only drink animal blood. Or maybe they're cold blooded killers who will have to be dealt with. Personally, I hope they're not characters who say "it's ok, we only kill bad guys/girls." That's no excuse or justification for murder, to me anyway. I'm still not too pleased with Phix's recent bloody actions, but that's just me. We'll see.

There are 'vampires' in our society that trade blood for sex.

Different strokes I guess...

Bathorys Daughter wrote:On the main Wapsi page, Paul introduced two new characters, both vampires. This should be interesting. As I recall, Phix has a very low opinion of werewolves and vampires. What did she call them, the annoying mosquitoes of the supernatural world? It will be interesting to see if Paul presents them in some sort of "misunderstood" light like Phix or Euryale. That is, they seem like bad people, but they're really not. Maybe these girls are vegetarians and only drink chlorophyll. Or only take a small amount from each victim or only drink animal blood. Or maybe they're cold blooded killers who will have to be dealt with. Personally, I hope they're not characters who say "it's ok, we only kill bad guys/girls." That's no excuse or justification for murder, to me anyway. I'm still not too pleased with Phix's recent bloody actions, but that's just me. We'll see.

I fully understand your feelings on killing other sentient beings, but in this case we have to remember that these are not humans that we are applying human rules to. but you have to remember that Phix has spent over a thousand years atoning for her past. She even said that she is not happy with the monster she once was. I think that a part of Nudge's "piss her off and run" is getting her to come back to her senses and be the Phix we know and love.

Mark N wrote:I fully understand your feelings on killing other sentient beings, but in this case we have to remember that these are not humans that we are applying human rules to. but you have to remember that Phix has spent over a thousand years atoning for her past. She even said that she is not happy with the monster she once was. I think that a part of Nudge's "piss her off and run" is getting her to come back to her senses and be the Phix we know and love.

Yes, you're right, of course, sphinxes are not human and have their own standards. I think it would not bother me nearly as much if Phix and the Apo had been in the midst of a knock-down-drag-out fight to the death at the time. Phix would, then, have only been defending herself. But it was a sucker punch. Maybe she didn't figure it would kill her opponent. Just drastically under estimated the power her anger and frustration had given her. She may have done it before (and had it done to her) with more ordinary results. I can rationalize it to myself that way I suppose. Too bad there is no evidence to support that theory.

I don't think I would have such a negative view if we had not just been introduced to such a merciless blood bath. Kind of sets the stage for more if the same to come. There have been bloody and gory scenes before in the series (a la Jin and the priestly intestines), but the cannibalism is breaking new ground for depravity (in human terms anyway). And what other terms do we, as humans, have? Vampires deal in a bloody business so I have to wonder.

The Vampires, however, were human so they can't get quite so easy get a pass. But then, I'm really jumping the gun here with my wild (and unfounded) suppositions. I think I tend to go overboard on these things and I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone, including Paul.

Every supernatural we've come across seems to have its own standards and... ethics. We as humans (well... most of us) are fine with slaughtering animals and eating their burnt flesh. We're okay with a lion taking down a Gazelle. Vampires probably look at humans in the same light; we're gazelles, we're their meat.

I'm very interested to see how this goes, especially as they were described as Trailer Park supernatural.

chibichibi01 wrote:Every supernatural we've come across seems to have its own standards and... ethics. We as humans (well... most of us) are fine with slaughtering animals and eating their burnt flesh. We're okay with a lion taking down a Gazelle. Vampires probably look at humans in the same light; we're gazelles, we're their meat.

I'm very interested to see how this goes, especially as they were described as Trailer Park supernatural.

Heh, in the (very funny and full of action) "Monster Hunter" books, elves are classic Southern trailer trash.

Orcs are (more or less) Good Guys.

And Gnomes, well ...

Um, I'm guessing we won't be seeing them on the island very much.

davids4250 wrote:Um, I'm guessing we won't be seeing them on the island very much.

Well, even if Monica and company like them, since the island is all about fun in the sun...

They just need to use a LOT of sun block.

Quite frankly, I hope they aren't 'merely misunderstood'. I simply cannot abide having a decent monster neutered because they are 'simply misunderstood'. Then again, I also have a fairly low opinion of the current rendition of the goth culture as a whole, particularly that subset of the goth culture.

Likewise with Werewolves. I see them as generally quasi-feral. Part beast. Able to control it, yes, but it is always lurking under the skin. Rather like Phix. And, like Phix, they can be okay characters. But I hope they are more than simply 'skin changing normals'.

I can see why a Sphinx would see a Werewolf as 'trailer trash'... a Sphinx can do pretty much everything a Werewolf can... shapechanging into a nearly unstoppable beast of inappropriate size... and then some. Besides, I've rather gotten the impression that there's something of an ego problem among Sphinx's in general. Granted, there's good reason to... I mean, there's no much that can take down one, apex predators have a tendency to have that kind of ego.

But I swear, if I see a vamp 'sparkle in sunlight', as anything other than a parody or prelude to 'Fwoosh!', I'm probably going to delete the Wapsi bookmarks.

ShneekeyTheLost wrote:Quite frankly, I hope they aren't 'merely misunderstood'. I simply cannot abide having a decent monster neutered because they are 'simply misunderstood'. Then again, I also have a fairly low opinion of the current rendition of the goth culture as a whole, particularly that subset of the goth culture.

Likewise with Werewolves. I see them as generally quasi-feral. Part beast. Able to control it, yes, but it is always lurking under the skin. Rather like Phix. And, like Phix, they can be okay characters. But I hope they are more than simply 'skin changing normals'. . . .

I recall a certain RPG that allowed alien species, and suggested that, if a Game Manager-developed species was too close to "normal" humankind, the species description might as well include a zipper on the costume. . .

yeah I would like to see some vampires, lycantropes (jaguar girl????), undead and such creatures running around on the Wapsiverse too

MrFireDragon wrote:yeah I would like to see some vampires, lycantropes (jaguar girl????), undead and such creatures running around on the Wapsiverse too

I agree, but I think that Monica being a Jaguar Girl is a nod to the Temple of the Jaguar where the living spoke to the dead, so that would be a reference to her being a portal (and Medium) to the Demon Realm.

Mark N wrote:

MrFireDragon wrote:yeah I would like to see some vampires, lycantropes (jaguar girl????), undead and such creatures running around on the Wapsiverse too

I agree, but I think that Monica being a Jaguar Girl is a nod to the Temple of the Jaguar where the living spoke to the dead, so that would be a reference to her being a portal (and Medium) to the Demon Realm.

Knowing Paul, do you really think it is just a reference for being a portal? rilly? I for one, don't think so....... I think we'll see some fangs and claws on our favorite busty heroine sometime soon....... but hey, could be wrong..... still, a lycantrope here and there would be cool.

MrFireDragon wrote:yeah I would like to see some vampires, lycantropes (jaguar girl????), undead and such creatures running around on the Wapsiverse too

Unfortunately, I do not share in the enthusiasm regarding the vampires, lycantropes or jaguar girl prospects. Here is why:

1) Vampires... really? OK, I know this is a strip where the supernatural is commonplace and yet shown under a different light. But vampires have so much of a "history" as it were and there have been so many "types" that it would not be an addition for plot but rather one for effect. Vampires run the range from nearly mindless killing creatures that lurk in the dark all the way to the pleasant and approachable who just happen to drink blood from time to time. If it ends up being a character study on just another "flavor of vampire" then it need not be a vampire - or at least we should not call them a vampire.
2) Lycantropes (generically a werewolf), are just a variation on the vampire template. They are the "beast within" that comes out against the will of the "victim" inflicted or in more modern takes the "beast within" that the person revels in as an expression of their suppressed self. Either way it is set on the foundation of the relinquishing of the rational self either by choice or by some manner of affliction or curse.

In both cases there is the history that these both were humans who have been changed by external events who now must respond to a basic physical and primal need that they can not control. That is a prerequisite for being a vampire or werewolf. If they lack that basic ability to control themselves then they should not be labeled a vampire or werewolf. I feel that having characters that can not control their actions regardless of how hard they or others try gives them a "get out of jail free" card as it were. They are no longer fully accountable for the damage, killing or horrible suffering they cause or have caused since they were created because ultimately this was done to them... humm sound familiar... it should.

That is what the GGs have been these last several years and I have never liked the implication that there should be sympathy for a character who must atone or has anguish for actions committed when the victim of some effect that inexorably moved them to commit the very actions they now lament. That is circular emotional gymnastics that for me generates frustration, not appeal.

So that may be why I am not looking forward to the inclusion of vampires and werewolves and that ilk. By their very definition they must lack self control and become beasts from time to time - yes, BY DEFINITION. If they do not then they are not vampires or werewolves but some watered down variation on a popular theme that lack the depth of character to include them in the first place. My prediction is that it will be this basic lack of self control that will eventually sour them and as I have said, if they do have control then they are not what they are labeled. Oh, and if it becomes one of those "we are just misunderstood" things then I really am going to go on a soapbox.

As they've been described so far, these creatures love the gore and pain they can inflict and revel in it. See Justin's previous girlfriend.

I doubt it's a case of misunderstood and more like "No, you understood us perfectly."

In fact, I'm almost betting that's how Pablo's gonna introduce them.

"Oh, great. My ex and her loopy friend are here."

Nimrod wrote:In both cases there is the history that these both were humans who have been changed by external events who now must respond to a basic physical and primal need that they can not control. That is a prerequisite for being a vampire or werewolf. If they lack that basic ability to control themselves then they should not be labeled a vampire or werewolf

So, you're saying that when it comes to dealing with their beastlike nature, they can run but they can't Hyde?

(donates a vial of a strange effervescent potion to the Pun Jar, hoping that the Jar has better sense than to drink it)

Given the wonderful rework of the Medusa/Perseus story (via Euryale), I'm looking forward to the Wapsiverse Vampire collection!

The "monsters" of myth and legend have always been accents or focused projections of human weaknesses, and heroes/dieties are the personification of human ideals. The Wapsiverse is chock full of these beings, as is the regular world -- it's just that we don't see the extreme aspects of regular humans as often. Consider they mythic world of good and bad, then consider Stalin/Hitler/Pol Pot vs Alexander Flemming/Jonas Salk/Ronald Regan. Then there's the more obviously conflicted types - Thomas Edison/Francis Crick (DNA)/John D. Rockefeller. It's easy to get into the peanut gallery and cheer or boo these people for what they've done, or haven't done, but you cannot ignore the consequences of their actions.

So then the to Wapsiverse -- which stereotypes will be broken? The eternal, blood sucking vampire, leaving a trail of carnage for the sake of hedonism? Or a gifted, long-lived polymath, seeking to improve the world around them with as gentle a touch as possible? Irresponsible woman-child party girl and never mind the consequences - she's rich, just send her the bill? Or fun loving adventurer with a heart of gold, and the good sense to know when not to meddle?

Oh, folks, this is going to get interesting.

Nimrod wrote:

MrFireDragon wrote:yeah I would like to see some vampires, lycantropes (jaguar girl????), undead and such creatures running around on the Wapsiverse too

Unfortunately, I do not share in the enthusiasm regarding the vampires, lycantropes or jaguar girl prospects. Here is why:

1) Vampires... really? OK, I know this is a strip where the supernatural is commonplace and yet shown under a different light. But vampires have so much of a "history" as it were and there have been so many "types" that it would not be an addition for plot but rather one for effect. Vampires run the range from nearly mindless killing creatures that lurk in the dark all the way to the pleasant and approachable who just happen to drink blood from time to time. If it ends up being a character study on just another "flavor of vampire" then it need not be a vampire - or at least we should not call them a vampire.
2) Lycantropes (generically a werewolf), are just a variation on the vampire template. They are the "beast within" that comes out against the will of the "victim" inflicted or in more modern takes the "beast within" that the person revels in as an expression of their suppressed self. Either way it is set on the foundation of the relinquishing of the rational self either by choice or by some manner of affliction or curse.

In both cases there is the history that these both were humans who have been changed by external events who now must respond to a basic physical and primal need that they can not control. That is a prerequisite for being a vampire or werewolf. If they lack that basic ability to control themselves then they should not be labeled a vampire or werewolf. I feel that having characters that can not control their actions regardless of how hard they or others try gives them a "get out of jail free" card as it were. They are no longer fully accountable for the damage, killing or horrible suffering they cause or have caused since they were created because ultimately this was done to them... humm sound familiar... it should.

That is what the GGs have been these last several years and I have never liked the implication that there should be sympathy for a character who must atone or has anguish for actions committed when the victim of some effect that inexorably moved them to commit the very actions they now lament. That is circular emotional gymnastics that for me generates frustration, not appeal.

So that may be why I am not looking forward to the inclusion of vampires and werewolves and that ilk. By their very definition they must lack self control and become beasts from time to time - yes, BY DEFINITION. If they do not then they are not vampires or werewolves but some watered down variation on a popular theme that lack the depth of character to include them in the first place. My prediction is that it will be this basic lack of self control that will eventually sour them and as I have said, if they do have control then they are not what they are labeled. Oh, and if it becomes one of those "we are just misunderstood" things then I really am going to go on a soapbox.

well I give you the thing about vampires, but lycantropes not all are victims, what if they are born that way? Like in Gold Digger by Fred Perry, there are plenty of lycantrope races (cheetah, wolves, rats, etc....) so I am all hands down for lycantropes..... and I agree with Paul, vampires are the mosquitoes of the supernatural world.