Car Necromancy

[GlytchMeister]

If I gotta rebuild the engine, I'm calling in favors from several of my reddest-necked friends. I don't mind owing them favors either.
If it's already FUBAR'd, well... I guess I'll have to get creative with my financial situation.

[GlytchMeister]

Ok!

Dad and I went and looked at it. There's a little itty-bitty bit of evil mayo under the oil cap. We also found a torn vacuum hose that was causing the rough engine. We patched that with gorilla tape, and now the engine is back to running like a dream.
HOWEVER...
When we got home, the coolant was boiling and leaking profusely, and it was also going into the overflow tank. But the engine wasn't overheated.
I'm going to wait for the engine to cool off, then completely change the oil and the coolant fluid so both are nice and clean, then I'm going to run the engine to
A) see if the fans are working
And B) find that bigass leak.

Then we'll see about tearing the engine apart.

Beyond that: WTF is happening that is causing the coolant to boil but the engine to not overheat according to the temperature gauge on the dash?

[scantrontb]

Beyond that: WTF is happening that is causing the coolant to boil but the engine to not overheat according to the temperature gauge on the dash?

you probably ARE overheating the engine, you just can't READ IT on the gauge!

you probably have a bad gauge.. OR the peanut butter goop from the oil/coolant emulsion has covered the part of the gauge that is stuck into the fluid that it's measuring the temperature of, therefore it isn't reading the accurate temp due to the thermal insulating properties of the goop.

Also, you should remove and thoroughly clean out the engine coolant thermostatic valve as well, it's probably clogged with that goop as well. if that is so clogged as to be unusable you'll need to replace it as well, those are usually pretty cheap (compared to a new engine, that is). what might have happened is that the goop sealed it shut so that whatever coolant is in the system can't go to the radiator and cool off properly, thus it heats up till it boils off.

once you get that taken care of, and you can run it for a while, I'd bring it to a place like Jiffy-Lube, and tell them the particulars of your case and get the radiator and oil systems flushed out and new oil/coolant put in, you'd be amazed at how that goop gets around in the tubing before it finally coats EVERYTHING inside...I'd even compare it to Cholesterol in your veins and arteries... in the parts where there is a really fast flow of fluid and smooth walls, it doesn't stick much, but in any place that there is a restriction or blemish in the wall, like corners and anywhere there are tool marks from when they drilled out the holes and such in the block, that's where it starts to collect...

[Dave]

And, the fact that you had oil/coolant cross contamination in the first place, suggests to me that you do have a breach in your head gasket somewhere.

Even if the engine seems to be running fine now, you really really really should NOT ignore the issue of a bad head gasket. It will cause further contamination and damage to the engine. It's sorta like ignoring blood in your poop... it might be something harmless, or it might be something which would kill you if you wait a few months to have it looked at.

I agree, you need to have the engine quite thoroughly flushed out (oil and coolant both). But, I think you should plan to pull the head immediately thereafter, to inspect and to carefully clean off the old head gasket and install a fresh new OEM gasket, per the manufacturer's latest set of instructions. This sort of preventive maintenance is very cheap at the price... it's a fraction of the cost of a new engine, and that's where I'm afraid you'll end up if you drive the car much further before finding the root-cause of the problem.

(And, if you're going to have the head off anyhow, ask a good mechanic about whether the motor has a timing belt, and if so whether it's due for replacement. Again, this is cost-effective insurance... a busted timing belt will immediately cause many modern engines to instantly self-destruct.)

[Just Old Al]

Couple of things to try before you start ripping into this engine.

There are cooling system pressure testers out there thatr can be used to check the integrity of the cooling system itself vis-a-vis the bad head gasket situation. This may be borrowable/rentable for cheap and would be well worth the issue.

When you change the oil examine the drained oil carefully - water will be obvious when you drain it. THe blowing oil could have been down to a plugged crankcase breather or one screwed up by the blown vacuum line that you had.

I am not 100% convinced that yer head gasket is gone - the wee bit of emulsified oil could be down to a plugged/poor PCV valve (see above) - I've seen that before. I had a Volvo 6-cylinder that used to goop up like that - miserable crankcase ventilation design.

As far as the boiling goes - I'm inclied to think you had an airlock in the system and things were not flowing as they should have. FIll it, burp it, fill it, burp it...ad anuseum till you are double-dog sure that there's no air in that system.

Alan

[GlytchMeister]

Thanks. I'll see what I can do.

Oh. And by the way: never try to improvise a way to elevate the car enough to fit underneath. It's jack stands or nothing. I lost a shirt and maybe a pair of jeans to an oil spill, and had to spend a loooong time cleaning up the driveway and the road so I wouldn't have some environmental fine.
Ugh.
But it's taken care of.

Speaking of which: I flushed the coolant system through both the engine and the radiator, first with water and then with antifreeze mix. I also filled/burped/repeated until it behaved.
Oil and filter is changed, and I know exactly where the oil level was. Gonna check every day before driving to see if the level changes. If it goes up, that means coolant is mixing in.
If it goes down, I have a new problem.

The boiling was caused by my dad not tightening the overflow tank cap. So that's stopped.

All this has made the car run fine and it isn't leaking anything anymore.

Questions: The oil I drained didn't seem to have water... It didn't even seem thinned out at all. But, it somehow managed to get so over full that the dipstick was oily several inches above the maximum line. So I don't know wth is going on there.
I know I had more, but I suddenly forgot the rest. Dammit.

[DinkyInky]

That FrankenStratus has been blessed by a cleric at some point before the necros got to it. Wow, are you lucky. Take it into a pro(or your friends in the know) and have it inspected. Everything.

[GlytchMeister]

Once my dad approves it for long distance, I'm gonna take it to my redneck buddies and let them sink their teeth into it.
...
Or, I'll save enough money to take it to my favorite local mechanic.

Whichever comes first.

[TazManiac]

Glytch,

Have both a Wet and Dry Compression Test performed. A Leak Down test would also be a good idea.

Competent Mech will know and be able to 'splain these to you.

[GlytchMeister]

Yup. My dad refuses to let me try and pull the head or otherwise take the engine apart. So it's at the local favorite mechanic, and they're working on it.
It means I have to get a new, better paying job to pay for college too, but I'll get through.

(I still think I coulda done it...)

[Sgt. Howard]

A wet/dry compression test is a simple two man operation-
1) Obtain a compression meter- they are cheap and simple to operate. Get the kind with the rubber cone.
2) pull your spark plugs- note the condition and check against a diagnostic spark plug chart (since you are there)
3) test each cylinder for compression, write down results cylinder by cylinder
4) repeat #3 except squirt 30-40 cc of motor oil into the hole just prior to testing- again, note the results- if there is a dramatic differance between dry and wet, your rings are toast. If one cylinder is dramatically lower than the rest, you have a problem. If your getting at least 125 psi dry and at least 130 psi wet, you're good to go.

[GlytchMeister]

I've bookmarked this topic for later reference. Once I get the FrankenStratus back, I'll see about getting a compression meter and doing the test, if things feel they need it.

The car is already at the shop, and Dad had taken charge, so whatever I do will happen once I get back into command.

[scantrontb]

The car is already at the shop, and Dad had taken charge, so whatever I do will happen once I get back into command.

at the very least, give them a call, or visit, and just ASK what they ARE doing to it. they may be doing that test as part of what they are already doing to the car, so why redo work? and if they weren't planning on doing it, let them know that you would like to do it, the least that could happen is that they charge a bit more for it, the best is that they say that it's included in test XYZ already...

[GlytchMeister]

Well, they ran it for a few seconds and suddenly became nervous about doing any work on it, due to the potential for the problem to be too expensive to be worth it.
Dad told them to at least find out what the problem is. It's not like we can make any decisions until they figure they part out.

Due to them being busy, my dad being busy, and my dad insisting that I take care of it without letting me actually take care of it and not giving me the info I needed (like how much money is he willing to dump), I'm probably gonna be waiting a while.

[scantrontb]

Well, they ran it for a few seconds and suddenly became nervous about doing any work on it, due to the potential for the problem to be too expensive to be worth it.
Dad told them to at least find out what the problem is. It's not like we can make any decisions until they figure they part out.

Due to them being busy, my dad being busy, and my dad insisting that I take care of it without letting me actually take care of it and not giving me the info I needed (like how much money is he willing to dump), I'm probably gonna be waiting a while.

nah, they were more worried that IF the problem was what they thought it is, they may have trashed the engine while "finding out" what the problem is, and that if it was a major thing that WOULDN'T have happened IF they DIDN'T run it, then THEY would get stuck with the bill... because THEY Broke it...

on one of my past cars (a 99? ford escort) i had the timing belt strip all the teeth off while i was on the freeway, and of course my engine became non-operational... when i tried to re-start it i COULD have snapped almost every single valve rod and/or cracked the pistons themselves because there were two styles of engine for that car, the one that i had, was ok and i didn't do that, but the other style was one where the face of the pistons when fully extended (max compression) crossed the lines that the face of the intake and exhaust valves made when THEY were Fully extended, ie, when they were either allowing fuel in, or the exhaust out and because the timing belt was gone, they never moved in sync with the pistons, and would have hit the piston itself as it moved... mine was what they called a "non-interference engine" and the other one wasn't (i forget what it was called now, but i don't think it was an "interference" engine)... anyways, if i had just called the tow truck without attempting to start it, and they brought it into the shop and just "started it up" without knowing that it was a NON-interference engine, they could have done more damage to the car than just a stripped out timing belt... damage that THEY would have had to pay for because THEY did it, not me... THAT is why i think they got nervous all of a sudden, something that they heard, or DIDN'T hear caused them to really hope that they didn't break it MORE than what the original problem already broke.

[TazManiac]

Scan,

What you are describing is often known as a High Compression Motor; or yes- an Interference Engine.

[scantrontb]

Scan,

What you are describing is often known as a High Compression Motor; or yes- an Interference Engine.

cool!, ya' learn something new every day... either way, I'm damn glad i DIDN'T have that type, all i needed was a new timing belt, some labor time to clean up the debris and then the guys redoing the timing procedure... as well as a few other normal maintenance items such as oil/filters, etc... rather than having to buy practically a brand new engine...