On The Path 2015-1-5

oldmanmickey · Post by **oldmanmickey** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:17 am

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/on-the-path/
is it just me or do those eyes seem to be laser locked on the eight ball in the last panel?

lake_wrangler · Post by **lake_wrangler** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:27 am

Just like Atsali doesn't really want the "Queen Bee" status, I get the feeling that Nadette is not too keen on being a seer, at this point in time... Finding the balance between telling your friends what they want/need to hear at this time, and telling them more, which they may not be ready to hear, would be quite the task indeed...

Not only that, but you have to be careful not to set up a paradox, wherein what you say will affect what they will do (as they try to either conform to or avoid doing what you say will/would happen), thereby changing the outcome (or making it happen, whereas it might not have happened, had you not said anything...)

Then again, we still don't know if she sees what will be, or what could be... (Although I think it's fairly well established that she is definitely able to see clearly what is, even if it's hidden from view...)

AnotherFairportfan · Post by **AnotherFairportfan** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:28 am

If Atsal didn't have that amulet, her wingspan right now would make a California Condor jealous...

Opus the Poet · Post by **Opus the Poet** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:32 am

That their meeting will make them both happy in the future even though it's not with each other is good enough for me. Eternal happiness is impossible, but a guaranteed future happiness with temporary happiness for a while right now seems like a great deal. But then I have seen over a half-century of wandering around this lump of water with a few rocks poking out of it.

DilyV · Post by **DilyV** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:34 am

It would appear that Nadette isn't to proud of herself at the moment... I don't know what bothers her more... Seeing Atsali getting with someone else, or knowing that them meeting was destined to happen, but not last. Chin up Nadette... at least you'll be there to help pick up the pieces...

Sgt. Howard · Post by **Sgt. Howard** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:39 am

In learning how to walk, you fall down a lot... but you walk. In learning how to date, you make a lot of bad choices... but you date. And yes, Nadette IS eyeballing the eight-ball...

Thor · Post by **Thor** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:56 am

I'd personally like to thank Nadette for revealing Chekov's Torpedo as the Good Doomed Ship S.S. Jacsali slips out of dry dock into stormy waters.

I'm quite pleased.

EDIT: This also helps explain how Nadette could act so carefree and nonchalant about setting up her crush with Goatsy the Barista.

jwhouk · Post by **jwhouk** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:05 am

Well, isn't that a lovely way to start the year...

Post by **Dave** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:05 am

Is it possible for one of the bear-folk, to look a bit sheep-ish? 'cause that's how Nadette looks to me in the first frame.

Agreed, lake_wrangler, Nadette doesn't seem too very happy about her role here. I have a hunch that part of it is the fact that although she's set Jacob and Atsali on a path to eventual happiness, she probably knows that they're both in for some turmoil and pain on the way there... and all three of them will probably end up paying a price for that pain.

For Nadette, it may very well come down to trust. How can she expect Atsali to trust her, in the future, once Atsali knows that Nadette was seeing a complex future, and being dishonest with her about it? No, Nadette isn't lying - she's not saying an untrue thing - but she isn't telling the whole truth, either. This may seriously color Atsali's feelings towards her once the full truth does come out... and if Nadette does harbor a hope that Atsali's affections will turn towards her at some point, things could become really complicated.

The ethics and responsibilities of being a Seer... if Nadette is as young as she appears, then this would be a heavy burden even when her own personal feelings aren't directly involved.

Yamara · Post by **Yamara** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:10 am

Opus the Poet wrote:Eternal happiness is impossible, but a guaranteed future happiness with temporary happiness for a while right now seems like a great deal. But then I have seen over a half-century of wandering around this lump of water with a few rocks poking out of it.

Well put.

Of course, those with fewer decades under their belt often wonder (and get angry) over why power doesn't provide instant results. Now if the power is foresightfulness, I can only imagine the frustration being that much greater in the young recipient.

Nadette's issue with lying may be a profound one. A seer that's believed has influence, but one that is distrusted has freedom, at least from other people's pestering.

Perhaps what happened to Cassandra was she tried to lie her way out of being believed, so as to lower others' interest in her, but this backfired when she was enslaved and no one listened to her warnings; a curse via crying wolf.

Nadette is not behaving as if fate is immutable, so I'd have to assume her attitude isn't just one of wanting to help, but of choosing among least terrible outcomes. Time travellers can be the worst liars, but perhaps prophets do not dare.

Thor · Post by **Thor** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:14 am

jwhouk wrote:Well, isn't that a lovely way to start the year...

Yep!

zachariah · Post by **zachariah** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:17 am

lake_wrangler wrote: Not only that, but you have to be careful not to set up a paradox, wherein what you say will affect what they will do (as they try to either conform to or avoid doing what you say will/would happen), thereby changing the outcome (or making it happen, whereas it might not have happened, had you not said anything...)

This is an old discussion between fate and free will. If you're told and it can't be changed then everything is fated. If you can change it there is no paradox and free will means what the seer saw was only a possibility, not fate. Can be argued either way, but it would not be a paradox. A paradox is because something you knew happened suddenly didn't. If it didn't happen how could events be as they are? They can't but they are, that is the paradox.

I suspect she is more worried because she set them on the path to happiness without telling them a full disclosure. Yes you will find happiness but I do not know when, with who, or how. Just that this way leads to it. The way she set it up for them actually misled them by telling only part of the truth. It was also quiet a bit manipulative as well. That is why she feels bad as she doesn't like doing this to friends. While it may be good for them in the long run they actually deserve to be treated better. Doing something for their own good without telling them can carry a very heavy price. But seers know this and have to be willing to pay the price. They just don't have to be happy about it.

kingklash · Post by **kingklash** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:28 am

Nadette once again (as I think she's run up against it before) has encountered the Oracular Stumbling Block. To tread the fine line between hopeful guidance towards the right path, and just dragging them over with a "Get on with it!" That's why a lot of Divine prophecies are deliberately vague. Or just oddball enough to not make sense until one is nose-to-nose with it, providing the subject can interpret it properly.

Take Kung Fu Panda 2, f'instance. The "Warrior Of Black And White" actually didn't mean a Panda specifically, until Lord Shen made it so. When did Po finally defeat Shen? When he achieved Inner Peace, symbolized then by the sign of Yin and Yang, traditionally a balance of Black and White.

Lord Shen was free to interpret his prophecy as he saw fit. And Randi is free to do the same.

Atomic · Post by **Atomic** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:41 am

Calm seas never made a good sailor. Success is great, but learning from and overcoming failure is even better. Atsali/Jacob may be doomed to fail, but they both can grow from it, and they need to.

Thor · Post by **Thor** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:58 am

Dave wrote:For Nadette, it may very well come down to trust. How can she expect Atsali to trust her, in the future, once Atsali knows that Nadette was seeing a complex future, and being dishonest with her about it? No, Nadette isn't lying - she's not saying an untrue thing - but she isn't telling the whole truth, either. This may seriously color Atsali's feelings towards her once the full truth does come out... and if Nadette does harbor a hope that Atsali's affections will turn towards her at some point, things could become really complicated.

Faugh. You're all making the assumption that Nadette is engaging in some sort of shenanigans here. It is not her fault at all that any of those involved are not actually listening to the words she is saying. They are happily jumping to conclusions without any prodding from Nadette. And considering that these are all mythological creatures, they should be more educated and aware of the nature of prophesy than your average mundane. The oracle is always elliptical with her phrasing. And if it is possible to interpret the words in a different way, you are foolish if you dismiss that other way just because you like your interpretation better.

Time for a little quote on the subject from a classic movie:

ARTHUR: Who will I marry then? You can tell me that at least. What do you see?
MERLIN: Oh, Guenevere...and a beloved friend who will betray you.
ARTHUR: Guenevere...
MERLIN: You're not listening! Well, your heart is not. Love is deaf as well as blind. That's it.

One more, same movie:

MERLIN: Looking at the cake is like looking at the future, until you've tasted it what do you really know? And then, of course, it's too late.
[Arthur takes a bite]
MERLIN: (sighs) . . . too late.

And it should be said that Nadette is not even being remotely dishonest with Atsali, just a little proactive about getting events moving . . . events that Atsali believes she wants. Atsali pines for Jacob for months and does nothing but sigh. Nadette comes in and says if she really wants to try to hook up with Jacob, she should do this, this, and this. No one was twisting anyone's arm here. And also Nadette's foresight is not absolute, considering how often she gets startled and blindsided by the things that Atsali does.

jayessell · Post by **jayessell** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:13 am

Nadette is a seer, yet it's Atsali who's shaking the Magic 8 Ball.

AmriloJim · Post by **AmriloJim** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:35 am

Nadette may be seeing the overall picture... happiness for Atsali and Jacob mat not be with each other, but without this first step, the final result is not possible, and Nadette knows that reveal at this point would also negate the final result.

TazManiac · Post by **TazManiac** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:26 am

I see... I see..., hmm, the mists are parting and I can see the Future, a possible future...

I, can see, well it looks like a Mermaid and a Goat-boy...

After all, this is the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius

(edit) - Nadette didn't say they wouldn't stay together, or eventually end up together, just that Happiness wasn't dependent on it... frak'n cryptical...

jeffepp · Post by **jeffepp** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:35 am

There are two ways an oracle can effect the future. First, by giving the thing that will (or could) happen to a person, who will act in such a way as to make it happen. Second, by being the one to set things in motion themselves. Either way, an oracle is someone that can see the one pebble that can cause the mountain slide, just not how it will slide.

Catawampus · Post by **Catawampus** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:21 am

"Heh, yes! Just like I said, 'by meeting my friend, your brother will find happiness.' He has met Atsali, he is destined for. . ."

For. . .Berdine? Cricket? Castela? Bia? Katherine (awkward!)? Nudge? Place your bets now!

Dave wrote:For Nadette, it may very well come down to trust. How can she expect Atsali to trust her, in the future, once Atsali knows that Nadette was seeing a complex future, and being dishonest with her about it? No, Nadette isn't lying - she's not saying an untrue thing - but she isn't telling the whole truth, either. This may seriously color Atsali's feelings towards her once the full truth does come out... and if Nadette does harbor a hope that Atsali's affections will turn towards her at some point, things could become really complicated.

The ethics and responsibilities of being a Seer... if Nadette is as young as she appears, then this would be a heavy burden even when her own personal feelings aren't directly involved.

This isn't the first time that a character has had to worry about this sort of problem, either.

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