Wapsi Square Forum

oldmanmickey -- I second your thoughts.

"Oh Noes! A new plot line! What will I do with my preconceptions!"

And soon we shall see.

It seems odd to me that a character Monica's age and as solidly established as heterosexual as Monica is, might be turning out to be bisexual in response to such a weak stimulus.

Odd and slightly disrespectful toward heterosexuals.

If it were happening to a character rather less established in their sexuality, such as junior-high and high-school students (El Goonish Shive, Rain, Gunnerkrigg Court), or in response to a rather more significant stimulus (double instance in Too Much Information), that would be fine.

(Note: links in previous paragraph do not lead to the specific relevant pages of the comics. Sorry.)

But Monica went through college, worked her way up to a pretty respectable position, and took an early semi-retirement; she's well past high-school age. With no known evidence of a sexual attraction toward other females. She's also a very strong-willed character.

And then Jet walks, er, staggers, up to her and basically says "You don't love him, you want me. Dump him and we'll go to bed." And Monica apparently replies "Okay."

Warrl wrote: Monica went through college, worked her way up to a pretty respectable position, and took an early semi-retirement; she's well past high-school age. With no known evidence of a sexual attraction toward other females. She's also a very strong-willed character.

And then Jet walks, er, staggers, up to her and basically says "You don't love him, you want me. Dump him and we'll go to bed." And Monica apparently replies "Okay."

Not quite.

The thing here is, if what Tina says here means what it appears to mean, Monica and Jet's souls are destined to be together, no matter what envelope they're contained in. (And there's no indication that their previous incarnations were both the same gender, or that their next ones would be.)

And remember, the torrid, passionate kiss between Monica and Jet that begins here ans lasts to here ... was entirely in Monica's mind, with no participation by Jet.

illiad wrote:gawd sake peeps... If this were a RL friend, would you be so damning???

Yes, yes I would. I would walk right up to the offending party and say, "Kevin, that thing on your face is a crime against nature. Either shave it off or go down in history as Humanity's Greatest Monster."

Warrl wrote:It seems odd to me that a character Monica's age and as solidly established as heterosexual as Monica is, might be turning out to be bisexual in response to such a weak stimulus.

With respect... I think that perhaps you (and many others) may be conflating "sexually involved" with "emotionally involved".

There's no question that Monica is emotionally involved with Georgette, and has been since the Tar incident. On Monica's side, that has seemed to have been driven by their shared experiences and by caring... not by sexual desire.

Clearly, Georgette wants it to be a sexual relationship as well. I don't think it has been established that this has happened, or will happen.

It might, of course... only Paul knows for sure where he's taking these characters.

And I wouldn't call what Monica has gone through a "weak stimulus" by any means. What Georgette said about Monica's relationship with Kevin wouldn't have hit Monica anywhere near this hard, if it didn't ring very true in her own heart.

Dave wrote:

Warrl wrote:It seems odd to me that a character Monica's age and as solidly established as heterosexual as Monica is, might be turning out to be bisexual in response to such a weak stimulus.

With respect... I think that perhaps you (and many others) may be conflating "sexually involved" with "emotionally involved".

There's no question that Monica is emotionally involved with Georgette, and has been since the Tar incident. On Monica's side, that has seemed to have been driven by their shared experiences and by caring... not by sexual desire.

Clearly, Georgette wants it to be a sexual relationship as well. I don't think it has been established that this has happened, or will happen.

It might, of course... only Paul knows for sure where he's taking these characters.

And I wouldn't call what Monica has gone through a "weak stimulus" by any means. What Georgette said about Monica's relationship with Kevin wouldn't have hit Monica anywhere near this hard, if it didn't ring very true in her own heart.

See my just-a-little-bit-upthread post

(cracks knuckles)

In doing an archive dive (okay, actually the WS Story Arc Summary list, but still), I think I may have discovered a primary reason why this is really bothering me - and, presumably, many of us who have been around Wapsi for a while.

Kevin is a FYC - First Year Character.

Turn your wayback machine to July of 2002 - when the strip was only 10 months old. Monica's boss informed her that she would be working with a "local photographer" for a museum exhibit.

Her first description of him? "Egotistical jackass."

His first description of her? "Egotistical bitch."

Oh yeah, this was going to be a love affair for the ages.

At the ensuing show, he asked her out to dinner... and she didn't even set up a date for it.

Guess what? We don't run into Kevin again until two years later. If she wouldn't have been walking Dietzel in the park the same day Alan and Kevin were walking along outside of work... well.

While we do see the first and second date, we have a rather long time between appearances for him. In fact, after Shel "interrupted" the two of them, we don't actually see Kevin again until he does the accidental damage in her basement in October/November of 2005. This was the first time M tried to hide the supernatural (namely the GG's) from him - which led to her first attempt at distracting him with sex (If you need to remember which strip THAT was, you need your WapsiCred card revoked).

From there on, Kevin's relationship with Monica was pretty - um, one sided? Kevin even mentions it to Alan in 2007. She continually chickens out in wanting to show him how she can "poit" - instead, giving him the long tongue.

Kevin does make appearances after that - and, of course, he's the one who makes the suggestion "Is there any reason that you have to wait until 2012 to fix it?"

Side note: I'm betting that in the previous 56 time loops, Kevin decided at this point that he had one loopy girlfriend, and booked on her. This was the first one where he made the suggestion.

Anyways - we know about the whole dancing thing with Bud, and his half-kidding comment about "this snowman will take at least half-an-hour to build...", and of course the "WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN MY BED?" routine.

The most telling thing? Doubt - before being distracted by Pizza - hit a nerve: "You feel validated. You 'need' him, don't you? ...Of course you must know your worth. That's why you don't want him to leave."

Kids: this relationship was never on equal footing to start, and had portents of doom from day one. Yes, day one was 12 years ago, but that doesn't mean it was perfection.

Just my $0.02.

A very powerful visual depiction. Wordless; it knocks you in the guts.
I really can't offer advice or comment on this particular storyline for Bud or Kevin.
I'll be drinking coffee and eating a biscotti at the Confusion Corner, perhaps I'll see you there.
Oh, before I forget and log out, I'll say it here. Love the arts in the Fan Art section. If you haven't you should look.

I don't think that Bud is trying to pick up Kevin, at least not deliberately. It is more of a case of checking up on a friend to make sure he doesn't catch pneumonia.

Besides, if he did Monica would blame herself resulting in a whole new scene and batch of anxieties. So Bud is also playing to her guardian role.

Well, Monica did say she "chronically screws up relationships and their possibility"... Ironically, it turns out their relationship both started, and ended, with "It's not you, it's me..."

'Some old fool' wrote:And behold, Kevin, while certainly hurt, was so taken up with Monica, that he stayed single for quite some time. Eventually, Monica healed sufficiently to come to realize how good Kevin had been to her and for her. She sought him out, and he welcomed her with open arms, without the slightest hint of reluctance.

They married, had children and grand-children, and lived a long, happy life together. Kevin died at a ripe old age, peacefully, in his sleep. Not very long after that, Monica "died" of a broken heart. She went on living, of course, "aged" 29 again. She went on many other adventures after that, but always remembered Kevin fondly.

An even more foolish old fool wrote:They took Kevin and cremated him, mixing his ashes with clay...

And they "lived" happily ever after...

illiad wrote:pinglederry: and you are doing exactly was most do, "don't talk about that, I am ignoring it" and so the cycle of ignorance continues, refusing to realise what the problem is!! >:(

Lol wut dude what does that have to do with what I said, or even with the webcomic for that matter? This is not a forum for your weird ambiguous conspiracy theories. If wildly insisting that gender is a polar binary and not a spectrum is what floats your boat (if that's actually what you're doing; it's hard to tell), then whatever, but there are better forums for that particular ancient and tired debate. Paul has gone to great lengths in this comic to build interesting, complex, and three-dimensional characters instead of taking the easy route and falling back on trite shallow stereotypes, and I respect him for it; it's a big reason I keep coming back even when I sometimes wish I could take my editor's pencil to the plot outlines. The other reasons have more to do with getting to watch powerful ladies kick ass and take names, and also mess up and learn from their mistakes and try to be better people. And Castela; I'm really just here for Castela. She reminds me so much of my girlfriend's kid.

Wait.

Is Monica really just talking about Tepoz in the last panel?

Okay, no.

pinglederry:
you mean the "weird ambiguous conspiracy theories" that everyone is inventing for this strip???

What I am reffering to, is that some people do not want to even think about things that make them sad...

Yamara wrote:Okay, no.

erm that reference is 2 days in the (RL) future... :/

I wish I could do that in RL would save a lot of arguments!

By the way: I do think we have the title for the current volume of Wapsi - should it ever get anthologized at some future point.

Hold Up A Mirror.

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/chickenout/

Jet didn't talk Monica into telling Kevin - Monica finally had the courage to do it.