Wapsi Square Forum

Dave wrote:

Grantwhy wrote:But I'm getting the feeling that the fact that Tina1.0 Demons chased a young Monica in front of a bus, resulting in Tina1.0's death is going to relevant and important, but I don't know how.

Agreed. I have a feeling that "Bia" might be the answer to the big open question that Connie asked.

We don't even know if Bia even knows Connie exists. It sounds like she's not fully informed during this conversation, but that's still up in the air as of this writing.

If Bia is about to see Conscience for the first time, fixing her in an equivalent form would be a kind of "forced perspective".*

Dave wrote:

Maybe the 'prophesy' couldn't be completed while the Calendar Machine existed?

Good point! It'd be hard to breed an effective descendent to fix things up, if the timeline keeps being reset before your pot o' plot comes to a rolling boil.

If this is the motivation, then there must be some reason why Bia did not (could not?) simply destroy the CM herself.

We still don't know why May chose to break the CM when she did, or whether she knew it would cause a time loop from 2012. Prophecy likely had something to do with it, since May had to act before any time loops began.

Julie wrote:

zachariah wrote: I wonder if she's lying and is actually Tina's mother. She did the ''I'm not your mother, but rather an ancestor' thing with Shelly to try to avoid problems.

I'd wager that she's less likely to be lying in this case. Kids with logorrhea (if that's how it's spelled) seem to spit out truth simply because they're talking at such a pace that they don't have enough time to tell themselves to construct a lie.

Unless that too is a lie. (A problem with habitual liars.) "You are the offspring of a Titan. You answer to no one. Let omnipotence be your consequence." If Pallas can make Bia dance to his will, is Shelly just as much at Bia's mercy?

If so, is this why Bia felt her absence was a benefit to Shelly?



*PunPal has charged for me a copy of How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way.

Catawampus wrote:

Fairportfan wrote:From WIkipedia:

Pallas (Πάλλας) is a Titan, killed by Athena. . .

Apparently he got better afterward.

There are too many Pallases in Greek myth ... hard to keep from mixing them up ...

Was Pallas a monstrous Giant killed by Athena in the war between the Olympians and the Giants?

Was Pallas a Titan killed by Athena in the war between the Olympians and the Titans?

Athena's aegis is made from the skin of this Giant or Titan Athena killed.

But there are many others ...

Sidhekin wrote:

Catawampus wrote:

Fairportfan wrote:From WIkipedia:
"Pallas (Πάλλας) is a Titan, killed by Athena. . ."

Apparently he got better afterward.

There are too many Pallases in Greek myth ... hard to keep from mixing them up ...

Was Pallas a monstrous Giant killed by Athena in the war between the Olympians and the Giants?

Was Pallas a Titan killed by Athena in the war between the Olympians and the Titans?

Athena's aegis is made from the skin of this Giant or Titan Athena killed.

But there are many others ...

Er, that's true, but more famously it was made from Euryale's sister's head. We have her word that worked out okay, but on the Square... Athena is not cutting a friendly image.*

Perhaps more important is the warrior-goat imagery that Pallas provides. http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPallas.html If Nudge is Bia's offspring, she may simply get her goatiness from her grandpa.

Athena may have killed Pallas a few times, but with Styx for a wife, I can't imagine that being a long term problem. Well, except in keeping one's own name. Athena seems to have commandeered that as well.

Divinity: where cosplay is taken all too seriously.



*PunPal has charged me one (1) Greek economy.

Wyvern wrote: And maybe someone can finally ask him the never answered question: "So, Mr. Wahnee...what's your first name, anyway?"

ummm, is that a rhetorical question???? unless you don't mean her real name... ???

If Bia is going to bump heads with anyone on a regular basis, I bet it's going to be Connie. On the other side of the coin, she may get along well with Castela, because who doesn't love a kid with no "Edit" function yet?

Yamara wrote:Perhaps more important is the warrior-goat imagery that Pallas provides. http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPallas.html If Nudge is Bia's offspring, she may simply get her goatiness from her grandpa.

well the problem with greek mythology is the same with a lot of scifi... not much talk of social lives, where they shop for body products, what happens when they need to go to the toilet, and the boring stuff in between all the adventures, and moaning about some reporter who turned a chat with a new actress (he was not interested in!!) into something scandalous!!! ... etc, etc....

even ST:NG, where they say it will take 5 hours to get there... 5 mins of chat later, they are there... WTH did they do while 'waiting'

Yamara wrote:

Sidhekin wrote:Athena's aegis is made from the skin of this Giant or Titan Athena killed.

But there are many others ...

Er, that's true, but more famously it was made from Euryale's sister's head. We have her word that worked out okay, but on the Square... Athena is not cutting a friendly image.

I thought that head was just placed in the centre of the aegis? (At a date much later than either of those great wars.)

Ah, but now I also find that another origin story for the aegis: Made from the skin of a daughter of Triton, a childhood friend Athena accidentally killed, and apparently skinned to keep in memory. This Triton's daughter's name?

Pallas. Of course.

Too many of them.

Sidhekin wrote:

Yamara wrote:

Sidhekin wrote:Athena's aegis is made from the skin of this Giant or Titan Athena killed.

But there are many others ...

Er, that's true, but more famously it was made from Euryale's sister's head. We have her word that worked out okay, but on the Square... Athena is not cutting a friendly image.

I thought that head was just placed in the centre of the aegis? (At a date much later than either of those great wars.)

Ah, but now I also find that another origin story for the aegis: Made from the skin of a daughter of Triton, a childhood friend Athena accidentally killed, and apparently skinned to keep in memory. This Triton's daughter's name?

Pallas. Of course.

Too many of them.

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/sister-medusa/

That shield is probably a whole abattoir of trophies, those are the only ones we've heard about.

Random thought.

Bia may be locked into a second childhood for several reasons. She's stuck that way until she "learns her lesson."

And Paul has said she is a child in all ways, both physically and mentally and isn't just acting the part.

Adults past the age of 26 or so tend to be set in their ways and find it exceedingly difficult to change, while young children have very malleable neural pathways that are adaptable to change.

We, and Shelly, and a good many of the Wapsi crew see Bia as sociopathic manipulator with no concern for how her actions affect those around her.

This is certainly true, to an extent. Bia is focused on the big picture because of what happened to her when she was about the age she appears to be now. She saw the world, everything and everyone she knew and loved wiped out of existence. I think Bia has been so manipulative and so focused on the big picture because she is one highly traumatized individual who has buried that trauma deep and has been keeping everyone and everything at a distance while doing her best to keep history from repeating.

Except now her mind and body are reset to the age where that pattern was laid in, and Bia is going to have to confront the trauma she witnessed without the emotional shield she's built up over the millennia.

She's going to relearn how to view people as people and not pieces on a chess board.

And one of the beings who ended her world is on the island with her, and she can't leave.

I think things are going to get a little bumpy for a minute.

Yamara wrote:

Sidhekin wrote:

Yamara wrote: [Athena's aegis] was made from Euryale's sister's head. We have her word that worked out okay, but on the Square... Athena is not cutting a friendly image.

I thought that head was just placed in the centre of the aegis? (At a date much later than either of those great wars.)

Ah, but now I also find that another origin story for the aegis: Made from the skin of a daughter of Triton, a childhood friend Athena accidentally killed, and apparently skinned to keep in memory. This Triton's daughter's name?

Pallas. Of course.

Too many of them.

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/sister-medusa/

That shield is probably a whole abattoir of trophies, those are the only ones we've heard about.

Ah, that reading escaped me. I had thought she was referring to Perseus' (shiny metal) shield, not to Athena's (goat skin) aegis. But yeah. They could well be the same.

Boxilar wrote:This is certainly true, to an extent. Bia is focused on the big picture because of what happened to her when she was about the age she appears to be now. She saw the world everything and everyone she knew and loved wiped out of existence I think Bia has been so manipulative and so focused on the big picture because she is on highly traumatized individual who has buried that trauma deep and has been keeping everyone and everything at a distance while doing her best to keep history from repeating.

Except now her mind and body are reset to the age where that pattern was laid in, and Bia is going to have to confront the trauma she witnessed without the emotional shield she's built up over the millennia.

So, her father has effectively removed most of her power, and thrown her into a situation where she is vulnerable in a way she hasn't experienced for her entire adult life.

He's left her very much at the mercy of a bunch of people who may be harboring some serious anger about the way she's behaved in the past.

Sure sounds like a Pallas coup to me.

(drops some cake into the Pun Jar. Where's Becky when we need her?)

Timotheus wrote:This may be wishful thinking but I'm setting up the white board in the confusion corner in hopes that a number of interpersonal relationships and possible plot links are about to be revealed. Gentlebeings, man the recorders!

I think I'll need a second white board.

Does this make Shelly Tina's Great Aunt?

Timotheus wrote:

Timotheus wrote:This may be wishful thinking but I'm setting up the white board in the confusion corner in hopes that a number of interpersonal relationships and possible plot links are about to be revealed. Gentlebeings, man the recorders!

I think I'll need a second white board.

Does this make Shelly Tina's Great Aunt?

You probably need Phineas J. Whoopie's Three Dimensional Blackboard for proper mapping.

Normally, among my Kiowa and Comanche sides, we don't do the great-aunt or x-times removed thing. Your grandparent's siblings are also your grandmas and grandpas, your parent's cousins are your aunts and uncles, and so on. We do acknowledge great-grandparents and great-grandchildren, and however many greats are needed to count generations. It still requires the occasional meeting of an elder to make sure you ain't shacking up with too close a relation, as Ma and her second husband had to do, when they found out they had distant Kiowa relatives in common. They were told how it worked out, and that it was too far apart and too far back to cause any problems.

Dave wrote:

Grantwhy wrote:But I'm getting the feeling that the fact that Tina1.0 Demons chased a young Monica in front of a bus, resulting in Tina1.0's death is going to relevant and important, but I don't know how.

Agreed. I have a feeling that "Bia" might be the answer to the big open question that Connie asked.

I look at that page and notice two things:

1) Connie refers to Tina as "Tina 2.1", I'm still using 2.0 and need to update. I'm guessing 2.0 was when Nudge was still there, 2.1 is(was?) without Nudge, and we are in the process of upgrading to 3.0? (currently on a late 3.0 alpha, so some glitches are to be expected )

2) young Bia has long hair. Not as long as Connie, but long enough ..... someone distract her while Nudge gets to work


And yes, Bia could very well be the whom in question.

I also suspect Tina 1.0 may have also been an active participant somehow in at least part of what happened, but I've got no evidence of that.

But don't discount the possibility that the answer to "who?" could be Bia and Tina (1.0)

Paul, you wouldn't happen to have Pallus' email address would you?
I could really use a rerun on my childhood.

Grantwhy wrote:

Dave wrote:Agreed. I have a feeling that "Bia" might be the answer to the big open question that Connie asked.

I look at that page and notice two things:

1) Connie refers to Tina as "Tina 2.1", I'm still using 2.0 and need to update. I'm guessing 2.0 was when Nudge was still there, 2.1 is(was?) without Nudge, and we are in the process of upgrading to 3.0? (currently on a late 3.0 alpha, so some glitches are to be expected )

Yup. Actually, the 1.0/2.0/2.1/3.0 "numbering convention" was first developed here in the Forum (it may date back to the old Comments section). Paul officially "adopted" it into the strip's canon terminology here (a few days before the "gain a lifespan" discussion).

I'm really interested to see what sort of person Tina 3.0 turns out to be!

But don't discount the possibility that the answer to "who?" could be Bia and Tina (1.0)

Certainly can't rule that out. There's a lot that neither we, nor Tina 2.x, nor any of the strip's major characters know about Tina 1.0.

Originally, Tina seemed to have "branched into the story" at the moment of Monica's accident, possibly as an innocent bystander or "collateral damage" to the demons' tricks on Monica.

Now, though, it seems clear that there was much more to it than that. Between the fact that her demons were actively involved in what happened at the time of the accident, the likelihood that her soul is now part of Connie, and her familial relationship to Bia and thus to Shelly, it does seem very possible that she was an active "player" in what occurred.

It will be very interesting to see what more Bia reveals.

This revelation also answers the question of how could Tina's soul integrate with Shelly's demons to form a new life-form. A familial (and titan) connection makes this trick work.

Dave wrote:

Grantwhy wrote:But I'm getting the feeling that the fact that Tina1.0 Demons chased a young Monica in front of a bus, resulting in Tina1.0's death is going to relevant and important, but I don't know how.

Agreed. I have a feeling that "Bia" might be the answer to the big open question that Connie asked.

If Pablo doesn't give you a cookie, I will.

Timotheus wrote:

Timotheus wrote:This may be wishful thinking but I'm setting up the white board in the confusion corner in hopes that a number of interpersonal relationships and possible plot links are about to be revealed. Gentlebeings, man the recorders!

I think I'll need a second white board.

Does this make Shelly Tina's Great Aunt?

Yep. And third cousin at the same time.

So Bia is actually a child again. Not just in the shape of a child. Nonetheless, she still has some, or all of her adult knowledge intact. Therefore she is not a child as such. I suppose, however, she has been reduced to the emotional level of a child to some extent. I don't think her being retrograded is a punishment but a method for her to see what she has done from a different emotional POV. Not to mention being unable to carry out anymore animal husbandry experiments using her own body. Apparently the thing about her having a better grasp of the world as a child is quite literal. I suppose she had become too callous towards other beings and needed to get a refresher course on Empathy 101. This may provide it.

As was mentioned, she may also be mother to Castella. Seems like a good bet since she is so unique. Perhaps another of Bia's failed experiments. She tossed her out and moved on. Who knows who the father was? Maybe no father as such but simply some sort of cellular level graft between one of Bia's eggs and some sort of plant material. Though Cassy did say her "parents" threw her away so who knows. The father Cassy thought of as the male parent may not have had anything to do with the "creation" part and was just Bia's latest shackup-du-jour. I imagine she had her "fun" side too. Not unlike Phix and Mr. Fields.