Wapsi Square Forum

Everyone keeps referencing M as being in control/keeper of the Chimera/GGG. Firstly, I'd imagine they aren't the Chimera anymore (since they were broken into their individual parts prior to meeting M). They're just Golems. Secondly, didn't Monica kind of relinquish control of them ages ago? I may have asked this before (goodness knows I have trouble remembering how to sign ym name some days, so remembering this is tricky stuff), but I had been under the assumption that M gave them their free will back ages ago...which took away her "control" over them. I mean, I guess free will can exist for a being that is controlled (or at least capable of being controlled), but that seems a little counter-intuitive to me.

From my perspective, it seems like it would be more accurate to say that she is a Glyph Reader (which was an aspect of her control over the GGG back in the day) and that she is close friends with several Golems, who might be inclined to destroy continents if harm came to her (though now that she's got the phoenix blood in her system, the only harm they probably need to worry about is emotional harm...and the GGG probably wouldn't be so massively destructive since M would still live and need a place to live...they'd likely focus that strength to destroy the source of pain instead).

Everyone feel free to go back to the archives to show me just how wrong I am.

Julie wrote:Everyone keeps referencing M as being in control/keeper of the Chimera/GGG. Firstly, I'd imagine they aren't the Chimera anymore (since they were broken into their individual parts prior to meeting M). They're just Golems. Secondly, didn't Monica kind of relinquish control of them ages ago? I may have asked this before (goodness knows I have trouble remembering how to sign ym name some days, so remembering this is tricky stuff), but I had been under the assumption that M gave them their free will back ages ago...which took away her "control" over them. I mean, I guess free will can exist for a being that is controlled (or at least capable of being controlled), but that seems a little counter-intuitive to me.

From my perspective, it seems like it would be more accurate to say that she is a Glyph Reader (which was an aspect of her control over the GGG back in the day) and that she is close friends with several Golems, who might be inclined to destroy continents if harm came to her (though now that she's got the phoenix blood in her system, the only harm they probably need to worry about is emotional harm...and the GGG probably wouldn't be so massively destructive since M would still live and need a place to live...they'd likely focus that strength to destroy the source of pain instead).

Everyone feel free to go back to the archives to show me just how wrong I am.

It is my understanding they have free will only because Monica chooses not to exercise her control. If she should so choose they would snap to on her command, as Bud did when she was ordered to tell the girl's story of capture and torture while in Monica's basement. It's not something she is likely to do, but she has changed a lot since becoming the JG so who knows. It seems nothing is off the table where Paul is concerned. As you suggest, however, it would be more likely she would persuade them to do something than command them, or they would simply do the right thing without orders.

Julie wrote:Everyone keeps referencing M as being in control/keeper of the Chimera/GGG. Firstly, I'd imagine they aren't the Chimera anymore (since they were broken into their individual parts prior to meeting M). They're just Golems. Secondly, didn't Monica kind of relinquish control of them ages ago? I may have asked this before (goodness knows I have trouble remembering how to sign ym name some days, so remembering this is tricky stuff), but I had been under the assumption that M gave them their free will back ages ago...which took away her "control" over them. I mean, I guess free will can exist for a being that is controlled (or at least capable of being controlled), but that seems a little counter-intuitive to me.

From my perspective, it seems like it would be more accurate to say that she is a Glyph Reader (which was an aspect of her control over the GGG back in the day) and that she is close friends with several Golems, who might be inclined to destroy continents if harm came to her (though now that she's got the phoenix blood in her system, the only harm they probably need to worry about is emotional harm...and the GGG probably wouldn't be so massively destructive since M would still live and need a place to live...they'd likely focus that strength to destroy the source of pain instead).

Everyone feel free to go back to the archives to show me just how wrong I am.

I think it's mainly been Shelly pointing out she has control of the golems, which I take to mean Monica can override their wills through her paranormal power of Glyph Reading (as opposed to just normal-normally reading the language).

She has only used this power once. That was sufficient for her to learn it is not a casual thing to do.

It has always lurked as a possible threat, though. Always found this page to be one of the more frightening of Wapsi Square.* Acacia has been yanked off to some desert, and is being told what to do to keep her "host" happy. Bud can blow out the solar system like a candle, but she nervously mutters an agreement to play along. And the scene continues on, and M chills out, and the lesson to not treat weapons as toys is made... But on that one page, does Bud really have a choice? Would she have been allowed to leave?

Would Monica have let Bud change her mind and say No?

The fact that that question can be asked is why evil is a human power.


Free will unlocked by sacrifice has been the story of the Chimera. No time right now to look up the links, but I'm pretty certain these concepts were all voiced onstage:

+ The Lanthian priests lost control of the Chimera due to Jin's sacrifice.
+ After separation, Tepoz takes the time to rebuild their personalities, giving them the independence necessary to exercise free will
+ Monica's bus accident counted as a sacrifice, allowing the GGs free choice; they chose to serve Monica
+ Monica decided to give the GGs their free will, and then Jin emphasizes that only raw emotions were a part of their golemization, not free will

Conversely, innocence butchered leads to loss of free will, i.e. the Nu Gui overriding Brandi and imprisoning the Etheitians; and now The Tar.


Yet the question of free will in a golem is kind of an old one: The legendary rabbinical "monster" was only able to be created because man is made in God's image, so therefore man can make a creature in man's image. The rabbi losing control of the golem is therefore congruent to Yahweh losing control of Eve.



*Of course, I think the funniest line in Monty Python and the Holy Grail is, "Mind your own business."

Something I'm thinking we've missed from that first panel of this strip:

The bright blue circle on M's face? Looks vaguely familiar...

I noticed that, but i figured others would too.

jwhouk wrote:Something I'm thinking we've missed from that first panel of this strip:

The bright blue circle on M's face? Looks vaguely familiar...

Yes, I was assuming that it's a form of her face-light glyph. Not all of Monica's varied powers came from the stabby Phoenix-blood blade... and the interaction between her Glyph-reader abilities and her blade-imbued Sub-Titan nature should be interesting to observe and figure out.

Paul showed Monica with her face-glyph alight when she poited Nudge into the volcano. I gleefully stole that idea (and quite a bit more) in the fan-art tribute image of Dark Phoenix Monica I did shortly thereafter.

This Thursday, the annual Comanche Nation Fair starts with a expansion to the Tribal Museum's Comanche Code Talkers exhibit. Go to http://comanchemuseum.com/code_talkers for some info about them, and see among those listed Pfc Ralph Wahnee, one of my relatives, and of course Shelly's as well. He's third from the left of those standing in the picture on that page.

Another interesting observation from that storyline involving the Poiting of Nudge:

When Euryale stopped her, Monica's first statement was "It felt like I was dreaming!"

BECKY (as she comes in through the back door of the shop): "Uh, Tina? Why are those two girls laying on the floor by the entrance? And why are they both snoring?"

jwhouk wrote:Another interesting observation from that storyline involving the Poiting of Nudge:

When Euryale stopped her, Monica's first statement was "It felt like I was dreaming!"

BECKY (as she comes in through the back door of the shop): "Uh, Tina? Why are those two girls laying on the floor by the entrance? And why are they both snoring?"

At least Becky remembering anything is questionable since Tina is a living neuralyzer.

BECKY (as she comes in through the back door of the shop): "Uh, Tina? Why are those two girls laying on the floor by the entrance? And why are they both snoring?
TIna: Just forget about this.
Becky: Forget what???????

Dr. Otter wrote:AIEEE! A Balrog is upon us!

It could be worse:

As they entered, the rumblings grew louder: Dribble. Dribble. Fake. Dribble. Fake. Shoot.

. . .

As Goodgulf stepped onto the bridge the passage echoed with an ominous dribble, dribble, and a great crowd of narcs burst forth. In their midst was a towering dark shadow too terrible to describe. In its hand it held a huge black globe and on its chest was written in cruel runes, "Villanova."

"Aiyee," shouted Legolam. "A ballhog!"

Goodgulf turned to face the dread shadow, and as he did, it slowly circled toward the bridge, bouncing the grim sphere as it came. The Wizard reeled back and, clutching at the ropes, raised his wand. "Back, vile hoopster," he cried.

I've got another theory what the tar could be (assuming the information given to M is truthful and accurate):

It could be survivor's guilt. After all, trauma, if you can't handle it, takes over a person's life.

{edIt}After all Tina instinctively knew that the plane crash was important. However, given Tina's seeming pleasure at Jet's regression, I'm wondering if it was the Tar that was transmitting things to people.

{edit 2}After thinking about it, the tar could be a representation of the trauma of the crash.

HiFranc wrote:I've got another theory what the tar could be (assuming the information given to M is truthful and accurate):

It could be survivor's guilt. After all, trauma, if you can't handle it, takes over a person's life.

{edIt}After all Tina instinctively knew that the plane crash was important. However, given Tina's seeming pleasure at Jet's regression, I'm wondering if it was the Tar that was transmitting things to people.

{edit 2}After thinking about it, the tar could be a representation of the trauma of the crash.

Could be, but I think that the one working the info out of Jet was more BlackWing than the rest of the Tina collective. Whoever BlackWing is, she has her own voice and keeps it separate from the rest of the rats.