Wapsi Square Forum

Further thoughts on this arc...

Adventure is highly over-rated.

Adventure has no certain outcome. You may live to tell about it, or you may die ignominiously and alone, with no one to record your last word. One thing, and only one thing, is certain. You will be changed.

Guilt will be felt by those who survive an adventure that has killed one or more of their companions.

This is not telegraphing. Good for you, Paul.

Avanti!

txmystic wrote:I think it is odd coincidence that Astali was the one in the library available and willing to escort Katherine to the Mesa Verde exit...why was she in such a hurry to shuttle K out of the library before she asked anyone else for help? I think maybe Astali did not have permission to do this, and this whole incident might merely be someone (or something) coming to return Astali to the library...

I just figured it was that she was a kid in the Adult stacks where she wasn't supposed to be, afraid of meeting the Librarian and getting banned completely for a few years.

And as to the Minotaur - Minotaurs are generally considered Not Nice To Know ... particularly (in some versions of the myth) for females.

I note that the outer edge of the alcove is clear of rubble.
Kathrine may be buried, but not deeply so, and adobe is not nearly as dense as rock.
She may simply be in need of determent.
Of course that may be true of both adventurers at this point.

Yamara wrote:But yeah, trapped for eons in an alcove, a siren with no one to hear her? Lighten up, people. Kid made a terrible mistake of underestimation, not a high felony deserving of a fate worse than death.

I don't get the sense that people here are wishing that sort of fate on Atsali... just pointing out that it's a possible outcome of the situation as it has been drawn.

Yes, she underestimated the situation and misjudged the possible consequences of running eagerly off in search of an Adventure. Is she to blame? Not really, I think... things went to Hell in a mine-basket much more quickly and seriously than almost anyone could have anticipated.

Yes, she dragged Kath off without doing proper research and preparation, and that was unwise... but how many of us didn't do somewhat-similar things at her age? Seeking thrills and being somewhat heedless of possible consequences is almost a definition of "being adolescent" at least among humans, and Sirens may well have the same characteristics.

My own fit of teenage recklessness involved exploring subway tunnels and semi-abandoned subway stations in Philadelphia... dodging trains and avoiding the "live" third rail as I went. Fortunately, my friends and I came out OK... but it could certainly have gone badly for us.

(Maybe this is why Sirens tend to be sedentary as adults... those which survive their adolescent thrill-seeking period have had the fewmets scared out of them!)

Fairportfan wrote:...
And as to the Minotaur - Minotaurs are generally considered Not Nice To Know ... particularly (in some versions of the myth) for females.

Reminds me of a short story from Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine eons ago, where there was time travel for tourists--and one enterprising young salesman was offering tours of the Cretan Labyrinth to (in particular) young women--and even offering them "protection" from the virgin-devouring Minotaur.

The last lines were something like, "The minotaur knew I was no virgin!
"But you, Mr. Xxxxxx, are no minotaur."

bmonk wrote:

Fairportfan wrote:...
And as to the Minotaur - Minotaurs are generally considered Not Nice To Know ... particularly (in some versions of the myth) for females.

Reminds me of a short story from Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine eons ago, where there was time travel for tourists--and one enterprising young salesman was offering tours of the Cretan Labyrinth to (in particular) young women--and even offering them "protection" from the virgin-devouring Minotaur.

The last lines were something like, "The minotaur knew I was no virgin!
"But you, Mr. Xxxxxx, are no minotaur."

Are you sure it was Asimov's? That sounds to me like one of George Effinger's "Muffy Bernbaum" stories that mostly ran in F&SF.

Speaking of Minotaurs: Chapter 2: Schoolyard Myths

via Gunnerkrigg Court

Heh -- Now I can inflict an archive crawl on somebody else for a change!

DilyV wrote:

TheDOCTOR wrote:Katherine isn't dead. As long as we remember her. (Wrath of Kahn) And who knows maybe the vase was made with Protomatter. (STIII)

More like the Wrath of Kath... If Katherine made it out, I wouldn't give a plug nickle to the pun jar for Atsali's chances of escaping a scathing tirade from Kath.

Atsali: Kath, you bloodsucker. You're going to have to do your own dirty work now! Do you hear me? Do you?
Kath: Atsali? You're still alive, my old friend?
Atsali: Still, "old friend!" You've managed to kill everyone else, but like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target!
Kath: Perhaps I no longer need to try, Siren.
[poits the Kachina doll away]
Atsali: Kath... Kath, you've got Kachina, but you don't have me. You were going to kill me, Kath. You're going to have to come down here. You're going to have to come down here!
Kath: I've done far worse than kill you, Siren. I've hurt you. And I wish to go on hurting you. I shall leave you as you left me, as you left her; marooned for all eternity in the center of a collapsed temple... buried alive! Buried alive...!
Atsali: KAAAAAATH!!!
[echo]
Atsali: KAAAAAATH!!!

MerchManDan wrote:

DilyV wrote:

TheDOCTOR wrote:Katherine isn't dead. As long as we remember her. (Wrath of Kahn) And who knows maybe the vase was made with Protomatter. (STIII)

More like the Wrath of Kath... If Katherine made it out, I wouldn't give a plug nickle to the pun jar for Atsali's chances of escaping a scathing tirade from Kath.

Atsali: Kath, you bloodsucker. You're going to have to do your own dirty work now! Do you hear me? Do you?
Kath: Atsali? You're still alive, my old friend?
Atsali: Still, "old friend!" You've managed to kill everyone else, but like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target!
Kath: Perhaps I no longer need to try, Siren.
[poits the Kachina doll away]
Atsali: Kath... Kath, you've got Kachina, but you don't have me. You were going to kill me, Kath. You're going to have to come down here. You're going to have to come down here!
Kath: I've done far worse than kill you, Siren. I've hurt you. And I wish to go on hurting you. I shall leave you as you left me, as you left her; marooned for all eternity in the center of a collapsed temple... buried alive! Buried alive...!
Atsali: KAAAAAATH!!!
[echo]
Atsali: KAAAAAATH!!!

If Kath survives this and gets out separately, upon meeting Atsali at a later date...

Atsali: Aren't you dead?

I think STTWOK was the best made out of all the Star Trek movies...

As a remark on the fact that "Adobe is not as dense as rock", I don't think that matters when you have at lease three levels of adobe crashing down on your head it makes that much difference. It's like asking if you'd rather be crushed by a ton of rock or a ton of feathers...

DilyV wrote:

As a remark on the fact that "Adobe is not as dense as rock", I don't think that matters when you have at lease three levels of adobe crashing down on your head it makes that much difference. It's like asking if you'd rather be crushed by a ton of rock or a ton of feathers...

Good point and well said.

By the way - is it possible I could get one of these threads started this time 'round?

No, your Internet-fu is weaksauce!

Opus the Poet wrote:No, your Internet-fu is weaksauce!

It would help if the artist would update at a set time.

Yes, she is Anansi, or Anansi's daughter, or her third cousin on the left.

What is Kat's specialty? Fabrics and textiles!

jwhouk wrote:It would help if the artist would update at a set time.

You just have to learn how to sit glued to your computer for a few hours like the rest of us.

I ain't goin' nowheres.

Fairportfan wrote:Are you sure it was Asimov's? That sounds to me like one of George Effinger's "Muffy Bernbaum" stories that mostly ran in F&SF.

Ah, yes, Maureen Birnbaum, Barbarian Swordsperson. I don't recall such a story, but it would certainly be her style of adventure. (Although she's still a somewhat frustrated virgin as of Maureen Birnbaum and the Saint Graal.) For some of us there weren't enough stories in that series.

Wyvern wrote:

Fairportfan wrote:Are you sure it was Asimov's? That sounds to me like one of George Effinger's "Muffy Bernbaum" stories that mostly ran in F&SF.

Ah, yes, Maureen Birnbaum, Barbarian Swordsperson. I don't recall such a story, but it would certainly be her style of adventure. (Although she's still a somewhat frustrated virgin as of Maureen Birnbaum and the Saint Graal.) For some of us there weren't enough stories in that series.

There wasn't enough of George Effinger. I knew him slightly, and we had mutual friends in New Orleans He was a Good Guy, but lordy, did life hand him the dirty end of the stick.

Wyvern wrote:

Fairportfan wrote:Are you sure it was Asimov's? That sounds to me like one of George Effinger's "Muffy Bernbaum" stories that mostly ran in F&SF.

Ah, yes, Maureen Birnbaum, Barbarian Swordsperson. I don't recall such a story, but it would certainly be her style of adventure. (Although she's still a somewhat frustrated virgin as of Maureen Birnbaum and the Saint Graal.) For some of us there weren't enough stories in that series.

She sounds interesting, but not the character I was recalling. This story had the feel of a one-off effort. And I'm just guessing at the Asimov mag connection, but I didn't have the cash to read many others at the time.

Edit: Asimov wasn't the author--it just showed up in his mag. I think...

Come to think - i think that story was published before Asimov's began publication; i feel like i read it in a collection years ago - possibly the SF Book Club's loss-leader/enrollment premium two-volume Treasury of Great Science Fiction (five copies available on Amazon), which dates back to the Sixties, i think. Hmmm...

Ah ha - 1960. Edited by Anthony Boucher

Ah A contents listing - i do believe it's "Letters from Laura" by Mildred Clingerman, originally published 1954 in The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, in Vol 2 of the SFBC treasury.

Full contents for both volumes:

Vol 1:

5 • Before the Curtain . . . • (1959) • essay by Anthony Boucher
9 • Re-Birth • (1955) • novel by John Wyndham (variant of The Chrysalids)*
136 • The Shape of Things That Came • (1951) • shortstory by Richard Deming
141 • Pillar of Fire • (1948) • novelette by Ray Bradbury
170 • Waldo • (1942) • novella by Robert A. Heinlein
245 • The Father-Thing • (1954) • shortstory by Philip K. Dick
255 • The Children's Hour • (1944) • novelette by Henry Kuttner and C. L. Moore
288 • Gomez • (1954) • novelette by C. M. Kornbluth
308 • The [Widget], the [Wadget], and Boff • (1955) • novella by Theodore Sturgeon
370 • Sandra • (1957) • shortstory by George P. Elliott
380 • Beyond Space and Time • (1938) • novelette by Joel Townsley Rogers
400 • The Martian Crown Jewels • (1958) • shortstory by Poul Anderson
413 • The Weapon Shops of Isher • [Weapon Shops of Isher • 2] • (1951) • novel by A. E. van Vogt

Vol 2:

7 • Brain Wave • (1954) • novel by Poul Anderson
120 • Bullard Reflects • [Bullard] • (1941) • shortstory by Malcolm Jameson
131 • The Lost Years (Excerpt) • (1951) • shortfiction by Oscar Lewis
166 • Dead Center • (1954) • novelette by Judith Merril
187 • Lost Art • [Venus Equilateral] • (1943) • novelette by George O. Smith
207 • The Other Side of the Sky • [The Other Side of the Sky] • (1957) • shortfiction by Arthur C. Clarke
222 • The Man Who Sold the Moon • [D. D. Harriman] • (1950) • novella by Robert A. Heinlein
293 • Magic City • [Meg • 3] • (1941) • novelette by Nelson S. Bond
322 • The Morning of the Day They Did It • (1950) • shortstory by E. B. White
334 • Piggy Bank • (1942) • novelette by Henry Kuttner and C. L. Moore [as by Henry Kuttner ]
356 • Letters from Laura • (1954) • shortstory by Mildred Clingerman
361 • The Stars My Destination • (1956) • novel by Alfred Bester

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* Incidentally, this is the Wyndham novel from which Kantner lifted several important lines for "Crown of Creation"...