Wapsi Square Forum

Deuce wrote:I see nothing in this comic to indicate Jessie knows about the Jacob and Atsali date, only that she knows of Jacob, and that he is a satyr. She simply seems pleased for her brother.

Seconded.

Sing it with me:

"If you won-der how he eats and breathes
And other science facts (tra-la-la)
Just tell yourself, 'It's just a show,
I should prob-ab-ly relax'..."

captnq wrote:

AnotherFairportfan wrote:Well, apparently she can tolerate chlorinated pool water when she goes full fishie (which, if we were talking a real critter with real gills, would be ludicrous).

Chlorine. This is the sticking point for you.

Ignoring she's a polymorphic fish woman who can apparently bitch slap the laws of conservation of matter and energy until they do what she wants.
Lets skip over the fact that They have the ability to teleport all over the world like you or I would catch a bus.
Ignore that fact that if she was half fish, then she should at least age like a fish and become a full adult in about 6 months.
Just forget that all these paranormal kids are dating different SPECIES and if the paraschool continues to exist for any length of time and allows uncontrolled interbreeding, it's only a matter of time before everyone is a bunch of Cronenbergs.

No no no... it's the chlorine you're having a problem suspending disbelief over.

Of course. The rest of that is plot mechanics, all part of the setup.

However, good writing says that, in fantasy, you pay attention to the Real World anywhere you don't specifically establish that Things Are Different.

There is a fantastic series - quite popular judging by the reviews on Amazon - that i dragged my way through two or three books of, just to see if the truly poor writing improved. (It never did.)

But when i finally gave up in total disgust was when the McGuffin of whichever was the last book i read, the reason that Somebody Evil was trying to drive the Crusty Old Homesteader and hi Plucky Daughter off the Family Farm (well, the nearly-played-out Family Coal Mine) was the rich lode of diamonds in the Appalachian coal country (i'd suspect that the setting was the State of Franklin, except i suspect that the author has no idea what that was).

There are only two places where diamonds occur in North America - and neither is anywhere near Appalachia.

There CANNOT be diamonds in that region.

When i mentioned this fact in a review (though not so clearly phrased, because spoilers) on Amazon, i got several responses, all of them basically "Hey - it's fantasy; anything can happen. Stop being so picky."

Well, certainly, in badly-written fantasy written by and for people who don't understand that if anything can happen for no reason than the author thinks it's a good way to get out of the corner she's written herself into, that's true. In good fantasy (or any other fiction) it's not true. A story where there are no set rules is not worth writing or reading.

So, to get back to the chlorine - unless and until Paul comes up with a reason for and an explanation otherwise, that pool has chlorine in it and the question is how a gill-breathing creature survives immersion in it.

An explanation for that that sounded halfway-believable under suspension of disbelief (as opposed to disbelief hanged by the neck until dead) would be an interesting thing to come up with.

Like my explanation as to why passing spaceships in"Star Wars" make noise...

captnq wrote:

AnotherFairportfan wrote:Well, apparently she can tolerate chlorinated pool water when she goes full fishie (which, if we were talking a real critter with real gills, would be ludicrous).

Chlorine. This is the sticking point for you.

Ignoring she's a polymorphic fish woman who can apparently bitch slap the laws of conservation of matter and energy until they do what she wants.
Lets skip over the fact that They have the ability to teleport all over the world like you or I would catch a bus.
Ignore that fact that if she was half fish, then she should at least age like a fish and become a full adult in about 6 months.
Just forget that all these paranormal kids are dating different SPECIES and if the paraschool continues to exist for any length of time and allows uncontrolled interbreeding, it's only a matter of time before everyone is a bunch of Cronenbergs.

No no no... it's the chlorine you're having a problem suspending disbelief over.

We all have our limits, for some people it's biology, for others it's bending the laws of physics, for the rest of us it's the coffee at Mucho Mocha.

I don't think it's so much a sticking point like that. I feel it's something we have a hope of figuring out, so we pick at it until we do figure it out, or we decide it's something we won't get without additional information.

We haven't got a hope in heck of figuring out how Jessie got all that extra mass beyond broad, unconfirmed and unconfirmable theories: it's all an elaborate illusion, or its wormholes, or something.

Poiting and Golem's Excemption from Newton's Third Law and all that seems to be widely attributed to wormholes, but that's as far as we can get.

But chlorine tolerant gills? Hmm. We might find a good solution to that.

Catawampus wrote:I wonder if merfolk prefer to add bath salts to their water, or if fresh water is just as comfy to them?

captnq wrote:I suspect that she's embarrassed her brother is dating one of "THEM" I mean, ohmighod! My brother is going to get such a reputation as a slut after this. UGH!

From what I've heard from gay friends of mine, that's pretty much what many people think of gays anyway. "He's gay, so he must be super-promiscuous!" I'm not quite sure how they reach that conclusion. The other kids at school might take it for granted that Daniel and the satyr would hook up, or that they already have.

Been in surgery since '77- been exposed to many segments of health care as a result.

FACT- any new variation of a venereal disease to hit a given area will infect the gay/bisexual male community FIRST in MASSIVE NUMBERS before showing up anywhere else... at least, until HIV/AIDS hit the streets- after that, condoms became quite popular.
FACT- Gay bath houses are designed for men- gay men, bi men, bi-curious men. It was common at one time (and STILL not uncommon) for a patron to go into such an establishment and not know HOW MANY or WHO his sexual partners were... or care.
FACT- HIV/AIDS made condoms prevalent, but did NOT change the behavior- gay/bi bath houses STILL exist, STILL have a thriving business and STILL cater to males engaged in promiscuous sex.
FACT- There is no equivalent for lesbians, and STRAIGHT sex clubs (which never were near as numerous as bath houses) dwindled severly by the end of the '80s.

As a segment of society, gay/bisexual males ARE FAR MORE PROMISCUOUS than gay women or straight males and females. I am NOT saying that they are "to a last specimen" nothing but sex-hungry hard-on driven beasts- but there is a whole industry devoted to providing gay/bi men a place to "get it on" with WHOMEVER they choose that DOES NOT EXIST for straights or lesbians.

Politically correct is all well and fine... until it obscures the truth...

GlytchMeister wrote:
But chlorine tolerant gills? Hmm. We might find a good solution to that.

They coat them with spar varnish- THAT will keep out the chlorine...

Sgt. Howard wrote:

GlytchMeister wrote:
But chlorine tolerant gills? Hmm. We might find a good solution to that.

They coat them with spar varnish- THAT will keep out the chlorine...

Or use an Ozone water purifier...

GlytchMeister wrote:But chlorine tolerant gills? Hmm. We might find a good solution to that.

I was thinking "symbiotic bacteria in the gills". There are some biofilm-forming bacteria that are quite resistant to chlorine and which survive quite well in pools with ordinary levels of chlorination.

Or, for all we know, mermaids (being paranormal) may have really weird metabolisms that can actually metabolize modest levels of free chlorine, or other nasties like hydrogen sulphide. They might not be entirely dependent on oxygen alone to fuel their energy cycle.

I'm liking the microbiome theory. It could be something like when Merpeople started to need to integrate into society and society started using chlorine all the time, MIB made a gill spray that would start a colony of pool bacteria that was altered to exist symbiotically with mermaid gills.

I don't think it would have come about naturally, as merpeople didn't really need to deal with chlorinated pools back in ancient times. Chlorine pools are, on the timescale of evolution, very recent.

OOH! What if merpeople already had a similar bacteria that let originally freshwater merpeople live in salt water? Then all that would need to happen is an alteration to that preexisting species of bacteria that let salty/freshy merpeople live in chlorine water!

Well AFAIK chlorine was NOT mentioned in the comic...

illiad wrote:Well AFAIK chlorine was NOT mentioned in the comic...

True. The pool's infrastructure was not germane to the storyline.

AmriloJim wrote:

illiad wrote:Well AFAIK chlorine was NOT mentioned in the comic...

True. The pool's infrastructure was not germane to the storyline.

Yeah. With a good storyteller (i seem to recall one of those has been spotted around here occasionally) always assume that anything not specifically established as differing from the boring old reality we live in is not different.

Until Paul establishes that the school pool isn't chlorinated, we can and should assume it is.

AnotherFairportfan wrote:

AmriloJim wrote:

illiad wrote:Well AFAIK chlorine was NOT mentioned in the comic...

True. The pool's infrastructure was not germane to the storyline.

Yeah. With a good storyteller (i seem to recall one of those has been spotted around here occasionally) always assume that anything not specifically established as differing from the boring old reality we live in is not different.

Until Paul establishes that the school pool isn't chlorinated, we can and should assume it is.

Why do you assume it's water? Why not liquid fairy dust?

(Hands Atomic a pack of Occam's Razors - "For the simplest shave yet.")

jwhouk wrote:(Hands Atomic a pack of Occam's Razors - "For the simplest shave yet.")

Careful with those, Atomic. Don't use 'em anywhere around a Spanish barber, or you'll end up owing a hospital a lot of money. He'll be enraged at losing your business, and will attack you with his pair o' ducks. You'll be facing a terrible bill.

Occam's Razor really doesn't apply to fiction.

But fiction, as Twain, Clancy et al have noted, has to make sense. And while within the established setting, chlorinated water does, liquid fairy dust doesn't.

Sidhekin wrote:Occam's Razor really doesn't apply to fiction.

But fiction, as Twain, Clancy et al have noted, has to make sense. And while within the established setting, chlorinated water does, liquid fairy dust doesn't.

Actually, it does apply - it's the principle of parsimony - assume no variance fro consensus reality that the author has not established.

Atomic wrote:

AnotherFairportfan wrote: Yeah. With a good storyteller (i seem to recall one of those has been spotted around here occasionally) always assume that anything not specifically established as differing from the boring old reality we live in is not different.

Until Paul establishes that the school pool isn't chlorinated, we can and should assume it is.

Why do you assume it's water? Why not liquid fairy dust?

Because Paul hasn't said so. Until he does, it's water and probably chlorinated.

There have to be rules; if there aren't, you're not telling a story, you're just throwing random ideas against a wall hoping some stick.

And some people like that.

I go somewhere else for my stories as soon as i recognise that sort of "storytelling".

AnotherFairportfan wrote:

Sidhekin wrote:Occam's Razor really doesn't apply to fiction.

But fiction, as Twain, Clancy et al have noted, has to make sense. And while within the established setting, chlorinated water does, liquid fairy dust doesn't.

Actually, it does apply - it's the principle of parsimony - assume no variance fro consensus reality that the author has not established.

That's not Occam's Razor.