Wapsi Square Forum

illiad wrote:ahem..

swimming pool urban myth

Here's What Gives Pools That Chlorine-y Smell (Spoiler: It's Gross)

I have encountered chlorine in gaseous form in other places. It smelt there, too - and hurt my nose and eyes. Purified water (and i mean laboratory-grade purified water - reverse-osmosed, charcoal filtered and/or distilled) treated with chlorine still smells (and tastes) of chlorine.

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Please note the second paragraph of your first citation. The odour it mentions is the smell of chlorine.

illiad wrote:

meisdadoo wrote:DO NOTE: chlorine smells of NOTHING

Try sniffing a chlorine puck. No bodily fluids there... But I GUARANTEE you will smell "that chlorine smell." (Assuming you have a fully-functioning sense of smell)

I will pay you $1000 if you can prove me wrong.

Source: lived with pools for almost 2 decades, and had to help care for them.

GlytchMeister wrote:

illiad wrote:

meisdadoo wrote:DO NOTE: chlorine smells of NOTHING

Try sniffing a chlorine puck. No bodily fluids there... But I GUARANTEE you will smell "that chlorine smell." (Assuming you have a fully-functioning sense of smell)

I will pay you $1000 if you can prove me wrong.

Source: lived with pools for almost 2 decades, and had to help care for them.

He is actually right. You are not smelling the chlorine. What is happening is the burning, and damage, the chlorine fumes causes to the smell sensors from it's highly reactive nature, is perceived as a smell as they do not register pain as pain. You still react to the smell like you would to pain by jerking it away from your nose. Your mind then assigns the response to you as the smell of chlorine. I expect nobody would react quiet the same way so it is impossible for anyone to agree in what it smells like other than burning. It can be compared to other things that cause a very painful reaction to the smell sensors but not really described with common referents. I suspect that smelling it to much would reduce your ability to smell as well.

So do I get the $1000?

The chemical chlorine is being detected by the smelling nerves, right? And everyone can react differently to it, other than the pain?
The "reacting differently" is similar to the "do you see the same red as I do?" question. Which is a universal question for all senses, in one way or another.
And a chemical that is detected by the smelling nerves... Is smelly. That's how smell works. It detect chemicals. And chlorine can be detected by any working nose via (at least) pain.
So unless you're nose is messed up, you can smell chlorine.

Chlorine has a smell?

Proof? Will you accept the statement of the Center for Disease Control?

they wrote:Chlorine gas can be recognized by its pungent, irritating odor, which is like the odor of bleach. The strong smell may provide adequate warning to people that they are exposed.

Chlorine's chemical cousins in the halogen family, such as iodine and bromine, also have strong characteristic odors - sharp and somewhat "biting". I don't have any trouble distinguishing between these three halogens, though.

I believe that prolonged exposure to low levels of chlorine gas can result in a state of selective anosmia - that is, you stop "smelling it", and won't be able to detect it in low concentrations until you've moved away to uncontaminated air for a while and your sensory nerves have recovered. This can make it somewhat dangerous, as you may not notice a gradual increase in chlorine concentration (e.g. from a slow leak) and you may end up taking in a dangerous dose.

Fluorine (the lightest halogen) is also reported to have a strong, characteristic odor, detectable in concentrations as low as 20 parts per million. I haven't ever knowingly encountered this stuff, and frankly would rather not make its acquaintance as a free halogen... it's nasty.

That being said - I do accept that the odor of a "stinky swimming pool" is due primarily to chloramines. Breaking up the chloramines by adding an oxidizer to the water does two things: it eliminates the odor, and actually increases the amount of free chlorine in the pool water... both good things.

My apologies if I irritated anyone. I momentarily forgot what my signature says down there. I also like to argue, as its the fastest way for me to learn. Some people are visual, others are auditory, others are tactile. I'm an argumentative learner.

Also, @Dave: avoiding fluorine is always a very good policy. Unless you're a mad scientist with a death wish, fluorine is probably not what you want.

Quoting the Chlorine Institute:

Chlorine has a characteristic penetrating and irritating odor.

All halogens have characteristic odours - bromine (from the Greek word for "stench") is named for it.

(I'm assuming that fluorine must have a smell - given how reactive it is, probably enough of it to theoretically smell would destroy your smeller.)

All are poisonous - i think bromine can be lethal at thirty parts per million.

But the smell of chlorine is detectable from a perfectly clean pool, freshly treated.

GlytchMeister wrote:My apologies if I irritated anyone. I momentarily forgot what my signature says down there. I also like to argue, as its the fastest way for me to learn. Some people are visual, others are auditory, others are tactile. I'm an argumentative learner.

Short of the Argument Clinic, this is the place to do that.

Dave wrote:Proof? Will you accept the statement of the Center for Disease Control?

Oh, I just couldn't pass up the excuse of poking fun at the debate to make a new GIF. So "chlorine smell" and "pool smell" are two related but separate things. Ya learns somethin' every day.

Dave wrote:Proof? Will you accept the statement of the Center for Disease Control?

they wrote:Chlorine gas can be recognized by its pungent, irritating odor, which is like the odor of bleach. The strong smell may provide adequate warning to people that they are exposed.

Chlorine's chemical cousins in the halogen family, such as iodine and bromine, also have strong characteristic odors - sharp and somewhat "biting". I don't have any trouble distinguishing between these three halogens, though.

I believe that prolonged exposure to low levels of chlorine gas can result in a state of selective anosmia - that is, you stop "smelling it", and won't be able to detect it in low concentrations until you've moved away to uncontaminated air for a while and your sensory nerves have recovered. This can make it somewhat dangerous, as you may not notice a gradual increase in chlorine concentration (e.g. from a slow leak) and you may end up taking in a dangerous dose.

Fluorine (the lightest halogen) is also reported to have a strong, characteristic odor, detectable in concentrations as low as 20 parts per million. I haven't ever knowingly encountered this stuff, and frankly would rather not make its acquaintance as a free halogen... it's nasty.

That being said - I do accept that the odor of a "stinky swimming pool" is due primarily to chloramines. Breaking up the chloramines by adding an oxidizer to the water does two things: it eliminates the odor, and actually increases the amount of free chlorine in the pool water... both good things.

When I worked in a semiconductor cleanroom manufacturing facility we used all of those as either reactants for the product or for cleaning the equipment, and while I can't describe what they smell like I can still identify those chemicals by smell.

Side story I had a very sensitive snoot at the time, sensitive enough that I could identify a leak well before the leak alarm would go off, including several chemicals that were considered so toxic that by the time you could smell them you needed to have already named the beneficiary for your life insurance. I could smell all of them before the detector did. Losing some of that hyper sensitive sense of smell was one of the few benefits of getting hit with the truck. It didn't affect my sense of taste, my food still tastes as good as it always.

Thanks for the tech answer, zachariah - sure, if anything is in its 'non-diluted' form, it will get a reaction! I was talking about *properly* diluted form in a swimming pool, and some do tend to put *too much* in, due to bad clients.... >:(

And as opus says, sometime the odour is SO strong, it just kills your sense of smell (before your brain gets it, so you think it has no odour!) .. and YOU, if you are not very lucky!!!

you dont want to *totally* lose your sense of smell, lots of thing are more 'smelled' that 'tasted'!

GlytchMeister wrote:The chemical chlorine is being detected by the smelling nerves, right? And everyone can react differently to it, other than the pain?
The "reacting differently" is similar to the "do you see the same red as I do?" question. Which is a universal question for all senses, in one way or another.
And a chemical that is detected by the smelling nerves... Is smelly. That's how smell works. It detect chemicals. And chlorine can be detected by any working nose via (at least) pain.
So unless you're nose is messed up, you can smell chlorine.

This is a matter of semantics. You choose to call the nose pain reaction as a smell, I just call it pain. If you are happy with calling pain an odor more power to you. The odor nerves are the same in everyone and it is just how our individual brains interpret the signals they send. But pain is pain and nerves react to it. But I really doubt that calling a corrosive gas pain reaction a smell is really valid. But then that is how I choose to look at. It does mean the $1000 was an empty offer that can never be satisfied. Have a good day and good luck smelling the roses.

zachariah wrote:

GlytchMeister wrote:The chemical chlorine is being detected by the smelling nerves, right? And everyone can react differently to it, other than the pain?
The "reacting differently" is similar to the "do you see the same red as I do?" question. Which is a universal question for all senses, in one way or another.
And a chemical that is detected by the smelling nerves... Is smelly. That's how smell works. It detect chemicals. And chlorine can be detected by any working nose via (at least) pain.
So unless you're nose is messed up, you can smell chlorine.

This is a matter of semantics. You choose to call the nose pain reaction as a smell, I just call it pain. If you are happy with calling pain an odor more power to you. The odor nerves are the same in everyone and it is just how our individual brains interpret the signals they send. But pain is pain and nerves react to it. But I really doubt that calling a corrosive gas pain reaction a smell is really valid. But then that is how I choose to look at. It does mean the $1000 was an empty offer that can never be satisfied. Have a good day and good luck smelling the roses.

Considering that two of us have evinced authoritative quotes stating that chlorine has, in fact, a strong smell, as do all of the halogens, i'd say that the challenge was met.

well this is getting a bit like the matrix..

there are many experiments that show the brain is confused by what it sees, turning a normal taste/smell into something different!!
have you every tried tasting a favourite food when you have a blocked up nose?? your tongue is not affected by the head cold, so why does your food taste different??

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... -and-smell

or try this.. get two portions of a cake you know, and put one on a black plate, and the other on a white plate... even ask friends if they can tell the different taste...

Gets out popcorn and a fresh sundrop, kicks back in the recliner and enjoys another episode of "what color is that dress".

Bravo Base this is Bravo Charley- no further movement on ground zero, again will have to wait until Monday... have noticed a smell I associate with chlorine, I SAY AGAIN, chlorine- is there gas activity in grid? over

SCHPRAAAASCHHHH! ZREEEE!!! avo base.... ould not ...py, please say again at o o ell? over

Bravo Base this is Bravo Charley- I spell phonetically- CHARLEY, HOTEL, LIMA, OSCAR, ROMEO, INDIA, NOVEMBER, ECHO- please advise? over,

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV!!!! avo ase... annot ...nfirm... esence or absence of chlo... .. at this ti... ...copy? over

Bravo Base this is Bravo Charley- loud and clear- have M-17A1 on hook, just in case over

DONGDONGDONGDONG!!!!SCREEEEEEEEEEE!!! vo base.....oger tha... over and out

Ah found an easier read for the CI thing.... and the reason why its important!

oldmanmickey wrote:Gets out popcorn and a fresh sundrop, kicks back in the recliner and enjoys another episode of "what color is that dress".

that has nothing to do with perception, but with the **** awful camera they took the pic with!! Or it was woefully overexposed/ contrast behaviour was awful, so it was colour-corrected badly... and the usual nutters making up stories for the mindless believers!!!! LOLOLOLOL
.
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SCHPRAAAASCHHHH! ZREEEE!!! avo base.... if.. ell.. ustrd ... charl.. ..xtrot! scram! over

I think Castela is not in the same space as Atsali asking that question... but the strip effectively shows that's what Atsali is thinking... It is horrible having a reputation that you know not to be true... When I was in the army, I was either the biggest ho' they'd heard of, or the worst tease that never put out (to put it lightly). Neither rumors were true... I didn't sleep around indiscriminately, nor did I tease guys then leave them blue-balled. The curse of being attractive enough to attract the attention if others I guess. I actually had guys hit on me that I had no interest in yet it was the ho' for turning them down. All I wanted was to do my job and be free to see whom I wanted and when turned down, people started rumors that were based on nothing but figments of their imaginations. I kinda see where Atsali is coming from here... her figure, her cutesy good looks and the reputation of her ancestry all ganging up to create false impressions in others. All made worse by her keeping herself unavailable.

DilyV wrote:All made worse by her keeping herself unavailable.

Not true. To males of a certain really stupid mindset, there is nothing she could do that would not get her labelled as a slut. (And her peculiar ancestry also doesn't play a part in it - it's just the fact that she's an attractive teenage female.)

She could learn from a friend of ours. At a party one time an oafish young man called her a slut, and she heard him... "No, sorry, I can't be a slut, I have to just be a bitch. Because, you see, a slut will sleep with anybody, and I WON'T sleep with YOU..."