Wapsi Square Forum

The good thing about all of this is that once M gets her head on straight, she'll be in a better place to help Calista. To help anyone for that matter.

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Phix is gonna be pissed.

Dave wrote:And, sometimes, "They don't deserve to have to put up with somebody as screwed up as I am" can be a form of cop-out, dressed up as self-sacrifice. It can be an excuse "not to deal" - a way to just walk away from our mistakes rather than go back and clean them up. This isn't always true, of course... but sometimes...

Shelly started doing that regarding Justin when she came back from the Time Forest. Then she stopped, used her 80,000 years of wisdom and self knowledge, and basically said "That's stupid. That's an old mind game. I'm not going to play that anymore."

Monica doesn't have 80,000 years of wisdom. Maybe Shelly can stop by and give her some advice. Or a butt boot to get her past this trouble...

Timotheus wrote:
<snip>

I realize it's not my call as it's not my story, but this has caused some rather severe mental stress and I find myself no longer in Confusion Corner but rather standing on the curb outside waiting for the bus to I Don't Want To Know Anymore. The question now is do I get on the bus or stick around awhile longer?

I would wait and see what happens next. There are an enormous number of directions in which this situation could develop; you don't want to bail because you think the plane is crashing, only to see it flying merrily onward while you're left behind.

jwhouk wrote:...




Phix is gonna be pissed.

Why so? There was apparently some manipulation behind the scenes to get Shelly and Justin together, which Phix at least knew of if was not directing; but nothing to show the same happened with Monica and Kevin, or is happening with Monica and Jet.

I'm a little disappointed in Kevin for taking a conversation that sounds like, "I am going to talk and you don't get to say anything. For God only knows how long, my fucking you has been hate-fucking." with what seems to be an overabundance of calm. That's not being understanding, that's being a pushover.

But then again Kevin's been such a passive non-presence in the story, I'm not really surprised either.

Bye, Kevin. You had a great goatee.

Well, so far, we seem to largely agree on one thing: We like Kevin.

Strawberrycocoa wrote:I'm a little disappointed in Kevin for taking a conversation that sounds like, "I am going to talk and you don't get to say anything. For God only knows how long, my fucking you has been hate-fucking." with what seems to be an overabundance of calm. That's not being understanding, that's being a pushover.

But then again Kevin's been such a passive non-presence in the story, I'm not really surprised either.

Bye, Kevin. You had a great goatee.

That isn't what Monica said. It sounds that way but it isn't. She had things to tell him about herself. Things she had to share to lay the groundwork for what she is doing, ending their relationship. That is all. There is no dominance involved by this. It is apparent Kevin listened, understood, and didn't blow a gasket. Getting mad by Kevin is the worst thing to do. Keep it on a rational level and just let it flow. That is what he did. Kevin understood a lot more than Monica gave him credit for.

Okay.

I don't remember who said it, but, in Bud,s case, while she's certainly not gonna be free of her problems and her damage from the past, i think that she's become one of the - if not THE - most grounded characters in the comic.

And for why?

Because of Monica's counseling and example.

I am quite willing to accept that a Kevin/Bud hookup would be a good thing (if not necessarily a Good Thing) for at least two of the three directly involved in the M/K/B triangle.

And i think that the one thing Bud still needs to complete her "redemption" (as she probably would see it - at least subconsciously) from the guilt she felt over her part in the scourging of Lanthis, and to cement her realisation that she is not some sort of dangerous monster, is precisely that sort of very human relationship.

Atomic wrote:Does Monica have any room left to grow? Any possibility? Yes, and we now have another plot to follow! Light bulb vs battery perhaps?

You're despicable!

gawd sake peeps... If this were a RL friend, would you be so damning???

illiad wrote:gawd sake peeps... If this were a RL friend, would you be so damning???

no, I'd be saying, " Where did THIS come from?"

jwhouk wrote:

illiad wrote:gawd sake peeps... If this were a RL friend, would you be so damning???

no, I'd be saying, " Where did THIS come from?"

far too brief an answer for all that stuff... wait to see tomorrow...

so what did you(plural!! ) do in the last months of 1999??? get all worked up, hide away in a cavern?? special survival bunker in case bombs and planes blew up???
and then woke up to find *nothing* had happened... LOLOLOLOLOL

captnq wrote:1. Having read the story line from the beginning, I would actually say this was a long time over due.
2. It's actually mandatory from a writer's point of view.

Monica, the character, is suffering from superman syndrome. Which is to say, Monica is too powerful. She's become boring. She cannot die. She can teleport anyone or anything anywhere. She can climb in your head and unleash your demons. Seriously, how could this girl ever lose at anything?

...

And before you start to go on about how it wouldn't be that simple, let me point out that Monica has virtually unlimited power and access to infinite knowledge. Give me that, and I would become exactly what I always wanted to be...

A hero.

...

Of course, one person's view of perfection is not the same as everyone else's...

The story of Wapsi Square assumes there's some truth to the ancient mythologies of mankind. It's been remarked on by better people than I that the pantheons reflect our own strengths and shortcomings, and the give and take of the social nature of power.

This has been pretty well established in the story, with clear limitations on possible power: Even Titans don't have infinite brains or attention span; the Library doesn't have infinite knowledge, only total literature; time travel to the past is grossly impractical and mind-destroying.

I wouldn't describe most of the demons in Wapsi as "heroic", but they're the only ones devoted to manipulating every sentient action they can, across sequential universes. Careful what you wish for.

This is the nature of sentience, it seeks out other sentience and is itself unsatisfied with a steady-state condition. No heroes in paradise/no paradise for heroes.

Jay-Em wrote:...M still has quite a bit of growing-up to do, and I think thatJet is NOT a good influence, because she's álso extremely self-absorbed and ego centric. Monica knóws this, and -again- chooses someone that will only worsen those traits. (Tbh, i think Tar just úsed that unpleasant trait of Jet to its advantage.)

Heck! Monica even alluded to Jet's actual character, mirroring her own, when she suddenly popped-in somewhere, just expecting Monica to come along at the snapping of her fingers. That hasn't changed afa I am concerned....

I have to admit that, despite her horrible experiences in her youth, I find Jet a véry unsypathetic (?) character...

She's also been described as a damaged soul, so yes, the Tar and the supermodel life has certainly bent her behaviour into unsympathetic shapes. But one thing that was striking me leading into this was that her five-Manhattan bravery was so that she could speak the truth. Self-serving truth, sure, but she even admits that up front!

And note especially, this relationship has the sanction of Tina. The demons aren't cheating their hosts for cheap thrills, and the ladies are a danger to anyone else.

Look, M could wake up in Patrick Duffy's shower tomorrow, but there is a theme of honesty and self-examination going on here, so assuming things are mostly as they appear, this is currently the best way forward for them both.


And as for Kevin, Smoking Mirror is saying I FUCK HIM LIKE I HATE THE WORLD in purest openness to her new SigO, so on behalf of the world, Kev, thank you for taking one for the team. Hey, I even hear Jet has a rebound in mind for you. Ain't civilization grand.

AnotherFairportfan wrote: I am quite willing to accept that a Kevin/Bud hookup would be a good thing (if not necessarily a Good Thing) for at least two of the three directly involved in the M/K/B triangle.

sheah, as if that would happen in RL.. "hey forget about M, bud likes you..." in RL you would be heading for hospital soon after...

captnq wrote: Monica, the character, is suffering from superman syndrome. Which is to say, Monica is too powerful.

NO, she is only as powerful as your worst fear.. If that happens to be 'dropped into lake tahoe', not fatal..

captnq wrote:She's become boring. She cannot die.

NO, she DOES die.. but then she re-appears as she was just after she got the spike in her head..

captnq wrote:She can teleport anyone or anything anywhere.

NO, she can only teleport to some place she *knows*

captnq wrote:She can climb in your head and unleash your demons.

everyone has demons - they only stay inside their person.. I think Tina's involvement could do something about that though??..

captnq wrote:And before you start to go on about how it wouldn't be that simple, let me point out that Monica has virtually unlimited power and access to infinite knowledge.

NO again!! she cannot modify the way golems work, that Mayah was able to do...

Yamara wrote: Smoking Mirror is saying I FUCK HIM LIKE I HATE THE WORLD

hey I know some EMOs and PUNKs that love doing that, It keeps them together!! very much the BDSM scene...
I am not into it myself, but my best mate and his GF cannot live without it!! he has changed his garage into a dom cavern..

I'm with Radio365 on this one. Today's post just reinforces my frustration with Paul's story choices as of late, along with the feeling that he so strongly hates involving any men in his stories that he took the first opportunity he could to replace Kevin with a female model that was hardly ever central to the story. I had truly hoped that Monica finally becoming the Jaguar Girl and having dealt with her demons would have granted her some perspective and wisdom, especially about herself, but this last week has obliterated any semblance of that belief. Her excuses here are a selfish cop-out to justify base lust at the expense of a relationship that is clearly much healthier than what she's getting into here. Especially since the last time this was even brought up was OVER A YEAR AGO, making it effectively ancient history for a daily comic strip.

My money says we will NEVER see Kevin again. Paul chose what was probably my most detested possible approach, which is Kevin takes it all in stride and Monica just moves on to her new fling really quickly. More than just being an upsetting scenario, it's really awful story telling from someone I expected better from. Kevin has never developed as a character, and this would have been a great chance to at least flesh him out as a person before exiling him. In fact, here's several things I would rather have seen happen if Kevin has to be removed from Wapsi:

1) Monica tells Kevin and he takes it BADLY. You get some insight into HIS personal demons which Monica never noticed because she's been off on her adventures for god knows how long. Maybe it ends the same way as it did here but at least Kevin stops being such a one-dimensional character.

2) Kevin is introduced to Georgette since I'm pretty sure they never met before and they hit it off too. Maybe Monica turns out to be bi or polyamorous, maybe there's a threesome, who knows.

Obviously this is all moot musings. Paul's characters are his to write and control as he sees fit, and I seriously doubt anything said here on a forum will affect his decisions one way or another. But I frankly needed to vent because this was a sudden and ungrounded change to a developed story and relationship that reeks more of desperation and selfishness than creativity and depth. I have strong suspicions that Paul simply found Georgette a more enticing character to draw than Kevin and made an executive excuse to place her in that role after forgetting about it for over a year.

groan.. now go on go out and find a strip that uses mostly grown up, straight, men....

I refrain from "if you're so smart, why isn't your webcomic ranking in the top 30" type questions, but i point out to those who think that they know so much better than Paul what direction WS should be going that there is this thing called "fanfic".

Wapsi Square: When all those other shoes drop, it's going to sound like a tap-dancing centipede up in here.

Omrikon wrote:I'm with Radio365 on this one. Today's post just reinforces my frustration with Paul's story choices as of late, along with the feeling that he so strongly hates involving any men in his stories that he took the first opportunity he could to replace Kevin with a female model that was hardly ever central to the story. I had truly hoped that Monica finally becoming the Jaguar Girl and having dealt with her demons would have granted her some perspective and wisdom, especially about herself, but this last week has obliterated any semblance of that belief. Her excuses here are a selfish cop-out to justify base lust at the expense of a relationship that is clearly much healthier than what she's getting into here. Especially since the last time this was even brought up was OVER A YEAR AGO, making it effectively ancient history for a daily comic strip.

##snip##

Obviously this is all moot musings. Paul's characters are his to write and control as he sees fit, and I seriously doubt anything said here on a forum will affect his decisions one way or another. But I frankly needed to vent because this was a sudden and ungrounded change to a developed story and relationship that reeks more of desperation and selfishness than creativity and depth. I have strong suspicions that Paul simply found Georgette a more enticing character to draw than Kevin and made an executive excuse to place her in that role after forgetting about it for over a year.

I respect your frustration, Omrikon. But, from where I sit I see things in a somewhat different way.

You describe Wapsi Square as a "daily comic strip", and consider what was shown a year ago as "effectively ancient history." Paul describes Wapsi Square as a "graphic novel" (which we happen to be reading one day's worth at a time), and I think the structure of how he's unrolled Wapsi over the years reflects that description. Paul does a lot of long-term plot and character development... things mentioned in passing seem to fade out of view, and yet turn out to be highly relevant (sometimes quite crucial) to plot development two, three, or five years later. The story doesn't always "telegraph its punches" any more than real life does, and the characters often have complexities which are only revealed later.

You're frustrated in part because the story elements concerning Georgette have been latent for a year... and yet some other reader(s) were wondering whether any of what has happened recently, has any basis in the strip more than a couple of months old. Hard to write a conflict story-line which pleases both of these

As to Kevin taking things peacefully: we been told about ten words about Kevin's initial reaction to Monica's rather tormented breaking-off. We don't know what either of them is actually going to do in the longer run. We have to wait and see, just as we did when Shelly came back from the Time Forest and considered breaking up with Justin (because he shouldn't have to deal with her newly-complicated life as a part-sphinx), and when she inadvertently ventilated his torso and he stormed out in anger. Kevin might go into a "slow burn", or go get very messily drunk and pick a fight with a grue at the Cerberus Club, or go sob on somebody's shoulder, or come back and confront Monica to actually deal with him and their relationship rather than bailing, or just sit back and wait, or do as she seems to want and "just move on". We really don't know... and given the historical pace of Wapsi developments we might find out next week, or next month, or next year.

We have yet to see any of the other Olde Cast reactions to what has happened. I suspect they'll be damned interesting, and probably revealing. Phix and Nudge and Euryale have all been willing to confront Monica about her personal issues on occasion.

I admit, I'm personally churned up a bit by Monica's sudden flail, here... but I'm not really surprised by it. What was revealed a year ago during the Tar Fight, made it clear that Monica has been carrying a big emotional burden through the years - one that she chose to keep buried rather than share with her friends. That's not a surprising behavior for somebody who has been through what she did... but, like most things in life, it has consequences and costs. As a result of disclosing her rape to Georgette, Monica has brought this trauma back close to the surface... and the buried pain is now backlashing (again, not an uncommon reaction for one who has suffered the trauma of rape).

Georgette claims, and Tina seems to agree, and Monica now seems to feel, that it has rather "poisoned" her relationship with Kevin. From her somewhat-stuttered reaction in today's last panel, I think she feels shamed. In any case, she's rather in a state of shock right now.

Maybe she can (and will) heal herself, in a way which will allow her relationship with Kevin to continue/renew/improve. Or, perhaps not.

Monica said that she would help Georgette "walk through the darkness".

Welcome to some of that darkness.

That which we give to others, is often that which we most need to receive ourselves.

In closing, I'll just suggest what I've suggested to others who have expressed unhappiness with certain events as portrayed in Wapsi Square: "Have patience."

Omrikon wrote:Monica tells Kevin and he takes it BADLY. You get some insight into HIS personal demons which Monica never noticed because she's been off on her adventures for god knows how long. Maybe it ends the same way as it did here but at least Kevin stops being such a one-dimensional character.

We don't know yet that he's taking it well, just that he showed a compassionate face to Monica. We may hear a lot more about his reactions, what with Alan being with Jin and other connections. I expect that to be interesting.

It's implied he's being paired off with someone his own size. I've long felt that this was inevitable, if Kevin didn't have a secret divine identity like Justin, and was an ordinary human. The Jaguar will persist for an aeon, and Kevin is doomed to blow away in less than a century. Through no fault of his own, she is growing out of his league, and possibly his comprehension.

Jet will face the same issue, sooner or later, as Monica proceeds toward her divine destiny. Sauce for the gander, and all that.

Omrikon wrote:Her excuses here are a selfish cop-out to justify base lust at the expense of a relationship that is clearly much healthier than what she's getting into here. Especially since the last time this was even brought up was OVER A YEAR AGO, making it effectively ancient history for a daily comic strip.

Omrikon wrote:I can't say I really remember Georgette's story or why she's relevant, but this came out of left field for me.

If you're inclined to forget the part where Georgette and Monica bonded after the Jaguar Girl butchered the soul of the rapist hiding in Jet's mind, then I'd say this tale isn't for you, no.

illiad wrote:

Yamara wrote: Smoking Mirror is saying I FUCK HIM LIKE I HATE THE WORLD

hey I know some EMOs and PUNKs that love doing that, It keeps them together!! very much the BDSM scene...
I am not into it myself, but my best mate and his GF cannot live without it!! he has changed his garage into a dom cavern..

Yeah, well "Kevin" is no longer her safe word. Safe words are for third parties' well being too, y'know.

M doesn't like loose ends, and so serial monoamory is her way of keeping control...

illiad wrote:gawd sake peeps... If this were a RL friend, would you be so damning???

My SigO would likely be angry at M dismissing Kevin instead of trying for a more inclusive family with both him and Jet. She might even say that Tina's advice was way off. We're crazy polytheists and would actually argue with these untamed people as we felt was necessary.

So like I said, Jet drank up the courage to voice the truth to the being she loves. Perhaps we can begin to expect more of that out of humans in Wapsiworld. What happens when people want to see the truth?

jwhouk wrote:no, I'd be saying, " Where did THIS come from?"

We don't know precisely what M said to Kevin, but revealing a core trauma on top of knowing the power and importance of the loved one would make that question moot in a sacrificial heartbeat. The correct response is probably, "oh."

But then, it's a test of character, and not everyone is able to pass them, or even have the option, like Alan. Where do you run when you're no longer wanted?