Wapsi Square Forum

meisdadoo wrote:

Atomic wrote:Nadettte said: "Not all of me is in the now to be affected."

Hmmm!

Ditto to all the discussion above, but I don't think anybody keyed in on that line. Does Nadette have aspects of herself existing in the future (or past) as well? Future Nadette might be able to effect small changes that Past Nadette can see and report to Present Nadette that "It Worked! (or didn't)." Unchecked, Nadette could be the Uber Manipulator on this planet! Or -- maybe she already is.....

Well if you're not where you're at when you're there, then you are nowhere, and as Nick Danger would say:
"How Can You Be in Two Places at Once When You're Not Anywhere at All"

I thought that was Babe.

Antelope freeway.....

Catawampus wrote:This also brings up more questions about Atsali's parents' relationship with each other. Was her father immune to the two sirens' songs? If the immunity of those who have strong feelings about her is truly news to Atsali, then perhaps she was just too young to really think about her father's lack of reaction. Or maybe there was no immunity, because there were no genuine emotions. Or she just never knew her father personally.

Two?... I'll bet that the ability to do the Siren's Song, doesn't manifest itself until puberty hits... and that just happened for Atsali, so I'm confused as to whom the second Siren is that you're referring to, #1 would be Atsali's Mom, but who's #2?... and where do you see a "lack of reaction" by her father? we've never seen him nor her mom in comic, and he was even dead and gone Long before we saw Atsali for the first time, and i don't remember ever reading anything else about the parents, other than what Pickle said when she was angry at her for losing her in the Library, that being that "at least Atsali knows her parents are dead".... and that's about it as i recall. I'm curious as to how you got that line of thinking with little or no other info than that (that i remember; anyways, please correct me if I've forgotten stuff...)

meisdadoo wrote:"How Can You Be in Two Places at Once When You're Not Anywhere at All"

"It's easy, if you don't know how!"

zachariah wrote:Seeing timelines is a bit much to ask as the future is not set yet. The entire weave of time as it extends forward would be a huge mass of possibilities as everything that happens alters what can happen. This viewpoint is based on lack of destiny of course. If something is predestined to happen then nothing we do can change it. But it can be changed as the girls proved by succeeding to destroying the calendar. It took 57 tries but it was destroyed in the end.

Not set, but the general flow can be determined. There was a Marvel Avengers graphic novel that had time itself breaking so some of their brainiest members built a 'time viewer' which displayed four different but equally valid futures based on their present. (Time's structure was coming apart at the seams because one villain was trying destroy another villain [and failing], coming back to the same point over and over again.)

lake_wrangler wrote:

AnotherFairportfan wrote:

Catawampus wrote:Hmmm, is Berdine's eyeliner running from getting splashed with water, or is her face melting from the heat of passion and embarrassment?

She did a faceplant in the ocean yesterday...

We know that... What Catawampus is asking is whether Berdine is wearing mascara, which is now running from having done said faceplant into the water, or whether she is simulating mascara and makeup, in the same manner in which they both simulate wearing clothes. If that is the case, then she is now simulating running mascara. Which is exactly why Catawampus is asking if Berdine's face is melting off...

Since we know from the first story arc with the ursamorphs twins that they do not wear clothing (and presumably accessories and makeup [they have fur and tails[). In the same story arc we also learned that the paranormal school expects older children to maintain human appearance even under duress so I expect that Berdine was not wearing makeup and that her transformation skills are so good that she provided the proper illusion even after face-planting in the water.

AnotherFairportfan wrote:Well, the coach calls everyone by their last name - actually, i don't think Jessie had a first name for a couple of appearances.

Yeah, I've seen a few coaches get tripped up by twins/trips or even kids with uber-common surnames in the same class.

One thing I think we've missed. When Sali said, "That almost got away from me." What exactly did she mean? I know it meant losing control of the power but with what result? Would that mean Berdine would become hopeless enthralled with her? Or does it imply that it affects Sali as well? It implies that if it had gotten away, Berdine would not have stopped and Sali would not have been able to resist going along with her.

Another point this could be used in a very low power setting to make the singing voice a very powerful tool for an entertainer. I wonder if it comes across recordings as well as in person? Maybe this explains Lady Ga Ga?

zachariah wrote:One thing I think we've missed. When Sali said, "That almost got away from me." What exactly did she mean? I know it meant losing control of the power but with what result? Would that mean Berdine would become hopeless enthralled with her? Or does it imply that it affects Sali as well? It implies that if it had gotten away, Berdine would not have stopped and Sali would not have been able to resist going along with her.

My guess? Same as your second option.

"Power Corrupts. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely"

Only in this case, I suspect the 'Sirens Song' has an effect on (corrupts) the Siren, as well as those that listen.

Back when Atsali .... um .... 'got stung by a bee' (I'm certain someone will be along shortly to provide a link ), Atsali was humming/singing in her sleep and then her form changed.

That the change in form might be because of an emotional excitement and/or an increase in physical sensitivity [yeah, I'm dancing around the subject],
but I suspect the singing of the 'Sirens Song' causes an an emotional excitement and/or an increase in physical sensitivity in the Siren.

"That almost got away from me." might mean Atsali had to stop herself as much as worry about not 'over charming' Berdine (or let her do anything) .


ps: "Those that have strong feeling for you will have protection from your singing".

Well, Friendship might indeed be Magic, but Berdine just demonstrated friendship is not strong enough to protect you from a Siren Song

Friendship might be Magic, but love is stronger....

and yes, the onset of puberty causes many things to happen, not just a monthly friend...

Grantwhy wrote:Back when Atsali .... um .... 'got stung by a bee' (I'm certain someone will be along shortly to provide a link ), Atsali was humming/singing in her sleep and then her form changed.

Someone will provide a link? What ever gave you that idea...

You know, I've seen it over and over, but never paid attention to the fact that she was singing in her sleep.. Of course, not having seen it, I would not have associated it with the siren song, either... Just one more layer that Paul has put on his works, which only gets discovered with time and discussion with others...

singing??? heck I'm a bad singer, but better than that...
I just read it as mumbling snoring...

illiad wrote:singing??? heck I'm a bad singer, but better than that...
I just read it as mumbling snoring...

The musical notes and wavy look of the letters does seem to imply, at the very least, humming in her sleep... This might be a precursor to the siren song, due to her not having used it before, and the fact that she is sleeping.

TheCollector wrote:Nother case of clothes changes in this comic, namely Atsali's suit changing from black to white. I always laugh at that, when it's one day to the next you'd think that wouldn't happen.

Hit Refresh, and you'll see the bathing suit is black, now. (Further proof, for anyone who didn't already know, that Paul does read, or at least peruse, the forum...)

lake_wrangler wrote:

TheCollector wrote:Nother case of clothes changes in this comic, namely Atsali's suit changing from black to white. I always laugh at that, when it's one day to the next you'd think that wouldn't happen.

Hit Refresh, and you'll see the bathing suit is black, now. (Further proof, for anyone who didn't already know, that Paul does read, or at least peruse, the forum...)

For a while, I thought she was a great wizard, like Evil Betty. "Your clothes are now red!"

scantrontb wrote:Two?... I'll bet that the ability to do the Siren's Song, doesn't manifest itself until puberty hits... and that just happened for Atsali, so I'm confused as to whom the second Siren is that you're referring to, #1 would be Atsali's Mom, but who's #2?... and where do you see a "lack of reaction" by her father? we've never seen him nor her mom in comic, and he was even dead and gone Long before we saw Atsali for the first time, and i don't remember ever reading anything else about the parents, other than what Pickle said when she was angry at her for losing her in the Library, that being that "at least Atsali knows her parents are dead".... and that's about it as i recall. I'm curious as to how you got that line of thinking with little or no other info than that (that i remember; anyways, please correct me if I've forgotten stuff...)

We now know that Atsali has the song power and that she has tested it out in the past, but we don't know for how long she's had it. It could be something that she was born with, or something that happened when she hit puberty, or some other point in between. Since she might possibly have had the ability from the time she was a child, I was counting her as the potential second siren.

(As an aside, the lack of an effect on those who have strong feelings for the singer would make evolutionary sense if sirens are born with the power: imagine if parents were able to be irresistibly compelled by infants!)

So, if Atsali did live with her family for at least a little while, then her non-siren father would have been spending time with at least one siren (possibly two) who had the ability to control people through song. Yet it is apparently news to Atsali that people who love her are immune to her power. So if Atsali did spend time with her family, and if singing is a power that sirens have from birth, then her lack of realising the singing's limitation implies three possibilities:

1) Neither she nor her mother ever sang, which seems a bit unlikely for a little kid.

2) Her father was affected by the singing, which would mean sad things for her family life.

3) Her father had no reaction to the singing, but Atsali never really clued in to that lack of a reaction or investigated why he was immune.

If her singing power is a recent result of her hitting puberty or something, then that raises yet other questions. We have seen her singing openly when around her family since the notorious bee-stinging incident. So either she can switch from normal singing to siren singing at will, or else her family were protected by their love for her and she again didn't catch on to the fact that certain people with a certain commonality weren't being affected.

As it is, we still don't know much of anything about the singing, so most everything is still just supposition.

Another question I've considered about it: does the compulsive power depend on the specific physical properties of the sound, or does the sound merely act as some sort of a conduit for it? Because if there's, say, a certain frequency in Atsali's singing that causes the compulsion, then anything that has an auditory system that doesn't pick up that frequency could very well be immune. Somebody such as an ursamorph could change the structure of their ears to keep from being controlled.

still all guesswork based on vague things said...

"those who have strong feelings are not affected" So those you love are not affected, and your children are loved the most...

there are many kinds of singing.. just think, if a hypnotist can 'accidentally' hypnotise someone, it would be a *problem* , not a novelty!!!

That would also work the other way, too - which keeps families of Sirens "safe" from the siren-call's effects.

Catawampus wrote:So if Atsali did spend time with her family, and if singing is a power that sirens have from birth, then her lack of realising the singing's limitation implies three possibilities:

1) Neither she nor her mother ever sang, which seems a bit unlikely for a little kid.

2) Her father was affected by the singing, which would mean sad things for her family life.

3) Her father had no reaction to the singing, but Atsali never really clued in to that lack of a reaction or investigated why he was immune.

I'm going to guess against #2. The little glimpses that we've had into Atsali's younger childhood years (starting here) show her as a happy and imaginative child. It's not certain by any means, but those suggest to me that her home environment was a happy and loving one.

#3 seems the most likely to me (and I'm also going to guess that a Siren's power doesn't manifest significantly during childhood, hence Atsali never had any opportunity to see the differing effects of her singing on family vs. strangers).

As to whether her mother sang around the house... well, if Sirens at at all musically inclined by nature, I'd expect them to sing when happy just as humans often do. It's a natural form of communication and expression.

I could easily envision her mother, puttering in the kitchen (it was her turn make dinner that day), carefully putting the fresh fish fillet on the rack, garnishing it with garlic and ginger and a bit of aromatic pepper, and lowering the rack to just above the gently simmering hot water and putting a lid over all.

♬ Steams like a bream...
got you hypnotized... ♬

We don't know just what happened to her parents, or why. Their deaths might have been related her mother being a Siren... or, not. Paranormals living in the human world would be about as vulnerable to danger and death as humans are (Phix sorta implies this when chewing out Monica and Shelly for showing off). Atsali's parents might have died in a car crash, or a tragic Salad Shooter misfire, or some other utterly mundane human-type accident.

If you have read KG&TLDOTA, you'll see that I suggested the last "flashback" was right before Atsali was notified her parents had died.

Yes, it could be anything. But whatever it was, Atsali was apparently not expecting it to happen.

It's also possible that the Siren-singing is something separate from normal singing, and a Siren can do either one.

Of course, there's another webcomic I'm currently reading (may drop, I'm not enjoying it much) where the Siren effect is totally tied to *speech*. If she says anything whatsoever, every male in earshot is entranced. The only way she can turn it off is to be mute. Normally ineffective on females. And there are other factors in that comic which make it worse...