Wapsi Square Forum

zachariah wrote:First let me point out they are not in the Library, they are still in Crickets Demon Space.

They are MOST DEFINITELY in the Library in this strip. Those railings have been used by Pablo in practically every strip where the "grandeur" of the Library is on display.

And as for Doubt - besides the obvious that the demon yelling "FAR OUT" in this strip is, indeed, Monica's Doubt - I would contend that Doubt is stronger now because of everything that has happened in the ensuing time since the Calendar Machine.

Remember: she is one of the DEMON SHEPHERD'S personal demons. And, she is the "leader" - or most powerful - of those same demons. That is like saying someone is the Chief Financial Officer for Warren Buffet.

I was gonna say Mrs. Doubtfire... but I can't find the darn strip where Monica set her Doubt's ass on fire...

You do remember when our Vampire girls spotted Monica and her covey outside the museum? I'm fairly certain Doubt was there (along with Tsillah in disguise).

zachariah wrote:Doubt did not return until after the calendar was taken care of with the nose flick news. I missed that one.

Without having to look very far, I see plenty of interaction with Doubt BEFORE they go to fix the calendar, and one right before it is fixed (two, if you count Doubt bracing Shelly bracing Monica, while Jin's doubt, the mirror, and the calendar machine are being sucked into the demon realm (in no particular order):

This whole arc, which ends in Monica lighting up her face:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/notmetalking/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/allgone/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/haveusback/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/talkingaboutyourse/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/ouractions/

then we continue with separate instances:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/room-full-of-fem/

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/we-will-break-her/

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/aw-cmon/

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/by-your-side/

Before they start the process of “fixing” the calendar:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/expendable-tool/

Just before the calendar is destroyed:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/we-have-rules/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/suck-her-in/


Earlier that year, after listening to her G’pa’s notes, calling Bud, and checking out the location of the calendar:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/justtweaking/

Soon after, at the Cerberus club:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/touchebabe/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/femoralartery/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/naughtynaughty/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/wisewords/

Tina’s explanation, and the following day, clearly indicate that Monica’s Doubt is definitely with Monica, not with Jin, but that through a mistake in the past (it may refer to Bud poiting Monica’s doubt into Jin), the two doubts can now communicate:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/demonlaw/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/theytalk/



I won’t bother looking further back, but it’s pretty obvious that from the time Jin poited Monica’s doubt away to the time of the calendar, Monica’s doubt was still very much present and interacting with Monica.

cmdrpowers wrote:You do remember when our Vampire girls spotted Monica and her covey outside the museum? I'm fairly certain Doubt was there (along with Tsillah in disguise).

Yes, it was, but that was after the calendar. So it doesn't help proving she was still there before the calendar fix...
(And for those who might think that was another demon, we clearly see Monica and Doubt talking afterwards, where Doubt talks about getting acquainted with Tsillah...)

DilyV wrote:I was gonna say Mrs. Doubtfire... but I can't find the darn strip where Monica set her Doubt's ass on fire...

You mean, this one?
Although technically, that still doesn't prove she was still there after Jin poited Monica's doubt out of herself (after Bud poited Doubt into Jin), since this is one of the strips leading up that that event...

(Thanks to the Wapsi Square Quiz thread, my Wapsi-fu is getting a bit stronger... )

zachariah wrote:Later Monica's doubt tries to escape the GG and Bud ends up putting it into Jin. http://wapsisquare.com/comic/01272005/ This arc runs until where Jin poits Monica's doubt away.

Doubt did not return until after the calendar was taken care of with the nose flick news. I missed that one.

You can't permanently poit Doubt away. Doubt is not physical. Doubt is attached to Monica via Demon Space.

Only Monica, Tina (in a policing function) or Phix/apopotroaic sphinxes can permanently remove demons. (Can someone tell me when was the bit at Club Cerberus that Tina clobbered Jin and Monica's Doubts?)

2008.

AnotherFairportfan wrote: (Can someone tell me when was the bit at Club Cerberus that Tina clobbered Jin and Monica's Doubts?)

AnotherFairportfan wrote:2008.

Sorry, try again: 2009 (I had already linked to it in my previous, multi-link post...)

Ah - i found Tina's first trip to the club, and assumed that was it.

Just for fun, I thought I'd look for more appearances of Doubt between 2005 (Jin's poiting her away) and 2009 (fixing the calendar, plus all the other links I've already provided for the same year). This was a cursory review of the archives by reading titles on the archives page, so I may very well have missed some. Nevertheless, I still found a few that date between 2005 and 2008 (inclusive).

In a conversation between Monica and Tepoz, on why she ended up as the golem girls' caretaker (Dec. 2005):
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/doesthatfrightenyou/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/theyhadachoice/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/feelingonedge/


In a discussion with the golem girls about self-control (March 2006):
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/dontberude/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/dontdoastheysay/

In a conversation with Shelly (March 2006):
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/putthemtowork/ (some may debate whether that was Doubt or not, but she sure looks a lot like she appeared in the previous exchange with the GGs)

Leaving Mucho Mocha, where Tina was wondering if Monica was fine (suggested that she may have seen Monica’s entourage) (April 2007):
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/fromalackofsleep/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/youlookravishing/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/dontyouwonder/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/questionsanyone/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/likeyourqueen/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/stealingmyprey/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/andayachttoo/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/justhavetotrustme/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/someoneiscoming/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/withalittlegrace/

A speaking role, to prompt Tina to search her memories of the accident (May 2007):
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/imstillinhere/

A conversation with Doubt, after spilling the beans to Kevin (Dec. 2008):
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/findyourworth/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/careaboutme/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/illdial/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/outgrowingyourbras/


Considering the need for Paul to fill-in other plot points, Doubt still has been rather busy, no?

Far out?



Indeed.

Exactly. Jim pointed Doubt away - though that was a Doubt that had Jim's hair and eyes - but she didn't have the power to permanently send away someone else's demon.

lake_wrangler wrote:

zachariah wrote:Doubt did not return until after the calendar was taken care of with the nose flick news. I missed that one.

Without having to look very far, I see plenty of interaction with Doubt BEFORE they go to fix the calendar, and one right before it is fixed (two, if you count Doubt bracing Shelly bracing Monica, while Jin's doubt, the mirror, and the calendar machine are being sucked into the demon realm (in no particular order):

This whole arc, which ends in Monica lighting up her face:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/notmetalking/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/allgone/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/haveusback/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/talkingaboutyourse/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/ouractions/

then we continue with separate instances:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/room-full-of-fem/

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/we-will-break-her/

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/aw-cmon/

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/by-your-side/

Before they start the process of “fixing” the calendar:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/expendable-tool/

Just before the calendar is destroyed:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/we-have-rules/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/suck-her-in/


Earlier that year, after listening to her G’pa’s notes, calling Bud, and checking out the location of the calendar:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/justtweaking/

Soon after, at the Cerberus club:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/touchebabe/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/femoralartery/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/naughtynaughty/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/wisewords/

Tina’s explanation, and the following day, clearly indicate that Monica’s Doubt is definitely with Monica, not with Jin, but that through a mistake in the past (it may refer to Bud poiting Monica’s doubt into Jin), the two doubts can now communicate:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/demonlaw/
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/theytalk/



I won’t bother looking further back, but it’s pretty obvious that from the time Jin poited Monica’s doubt away to the time of the calendar, Monica’s doubt was still very much present and interacting with Monica.

I'll give you some of these but a lot of them are not doubt. they are the main demon that was out to keep Monica;s doorway open for demon use. One of Doubts main attributes was talking in mirror most of the times. If you check the strips almost always there is a bit of mirror talk to firmly ID the demon as doubt. The times it is not doubt there is no mirror talk. After the Calendar that changes because doubt changed and apparently no longer needed to talk that way. It can be very confusing but I am fairly confident about this pattern.

I will concede the point that Jin did not destroy doubt, but she did poit her somewhere. Jin has powers that the other girls don't so her being able to poit a demon is possible. If Monica can set doubt on fire that means the demon can be affected by mortals.

AnotherFairportfan wrote:Exactly. Jim pointed Doubt away - though that was a Doubt that had Jim's hair and eyes

Interesting. Throughout this whole discussion, and even though that comic was linked several times, I had never noticed that the eyes and hair of that Doubt matched Jin's. I had always assumed that since that Doubt had started talking immediately after Bud had poited Monica's Doubt into Jin, that it was that same Doubt that was talking.

AnotherFairportfan wrote:- but she didn't have the power to permanently send away someone else's demon.

Exactly: she couldn't send her to the poit of no return...
The whole poit of the conversation still is that Monica's Doubt undoubtedly did not vanish, and she made several appearances between that time and the time they destroyed the calendar machine, leaving no doubt as to her continued existence and presence into Monica's life...


*Deposits a poiter figurine into the pun jar*
*Also deposits a pewter figurine into the pun jar*

Monica's Doubt only "mirror-spoke", as far as I can tell, when she was trying to make Monica doubt herself on an existential level (for the merely annoying, she kept it to normal-speak). And she did not always stick hard and fast to that "rule", either:
This is clearly Monica's Doubt, yet when she speaks two pages later, she does not mirror-speak.
Even just before they fix the calendar machine, she does not mirror-speak, even though she is trying to get Monica angry (in order to make her light up her face).
Look up the other links I posted before, and you will still recognize her, visually speaking, even when she is not mirror-speaking.


For instance, look again at the links I posted of the Cerberus Club, where you see both Doubts together, and you will see that the "Queen of sort" (Jin's Doubt) who wanted Monica's doorway for herself has a shorter, wider face, with distinct markings. Every time we see her, she has those markings, even when she talks to Monica that one time. The only time she did not have those markings is when Jin poited her away (which has been linked several times, by now), but she obviously came back... The other links I have provided are clearly not her (unless she is there WITH Monica's Doubt.) Jin's Doubt has only directly interacted with Monica twice: once, when she told Monica that it was Tina's demons who chased her, not her own (said interaction ended up with Monica popping her, bubble-like, with a sharp pencil), and during the calendar fix, when she tried to prevent Shelly from stabbing Monica. Any other time we see Monica interacting with demons, they are her own demons, including her own Doubt. (Except, of course, when she had to deal with Georgette's demons, but there was no confusion there. We knew they were not Monica's.)

MerchManDan wrote:Far out?

I keep seeing the comic title and hearing Tommy Chong.

shadowinthelight wrote:

MerchManDan wrote:Far out?

I keep seeing the comic title and hearing Tommy Chong.

[checks who is online] Dave's not here, man!

"Class...claaaass...CLAAAAAAASS..." "SHUT UP!" "Thank you"

Here's where Monica recognizes that there is more than one Doubt.

http://wapsisquare.com/comic/yourenotmine/

zachariah wrote:Second is we can't be sure who that demon is or who it belongs to but it is not Monica's doubt.

*cough*