Wapsi Square Forum

zachariah wrote:That depends on how many problems the nickname causes when the kids grow up. My daughter thought her nickname was wonderful until fourth grade. Then all the other kids started teasing her about it pretty badly. To this day I am not allowed to use it because of the memories it brings back to her. So yes I do feel like a half-wit for putting her through that even though I helped her cope with it. Unintended consequences really need to be considered before you do things that may last a long time.

My long response behind cut. Highlight to read.My real name(and appearance) caused me torture growing up. When I was young, I resented being born, to the point of trying to erase myself. Now, I just see that people have the potential to be mean, and that some, no matter what I do, will never be nice. It alll started with an educator who gave me a bit of advice: If you don't Love yourself, nobody else can.
I have a different view than I did when I was young. I am not as confident as I'd like, but more than when I was young. I don't love my appearance unconditionally, but accept it is what it is. I give my son what he needs so he wants for nothing, and by that I mean the necessities to thrive, moral support and the basic things for life...not every gadget under the sun because it is shiny, or keep up with the Joneses. I teach him about our world and tell him what it was like when his parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and double great grandparents growing up(including the joys of immigration and naturalization, and the intolerance of people who were a bit different) so that he isn't running through life with rose hued spectacles. Nearly commiting suicide over the bullying changes your world view a teeny bit. If you don't love yourself, it is impossible for anyone else to.
I try to show my son a balance of it, and positive ways to take care of it(lead by example). He has Auburn instead of black, and shifting hazel instead of brown, so one would think he'd be free of it, but my sister had some of the same traits, and got picked on worse, so I just wait on the sidelines to help him practically.

Were my parents half-wits for having me or naming me what they did? No. For having me at all? Of course not. Were the kids just mean? Definitely. Were their parents encouraging of the behaviour? Possibly. Are there issues behind doors we cannot see? Probably. Has society changed at all in the last 40 years? Definitely. Enough? No. Too many variables to have a concrete solution that fits all known issues.

Tolerance of bullying is less acceptable these days, punished more severely than it did 40 years ago, yet it goes on with more alarming frequency for the most inane and mundane reasons. Media sensationalises it and glamourises it, and even condemns it, but it will never stop really until everyone works hard at raising the next generation to stop, and quite frankly, I cannot really foresee it happening, too many get a trip out of it.
It's even worse for a child, because he/she is made to feel unwanted after an event like this. My son has issues like that, but I work hard so he knows at least one parent will always give 10,000%...will always just be there...will acknowledge their everything. And I will never stop until I no longer breathe, and he feels love enough for both parents.
There were a lot of children at my son's old school that felt just like Atsali's friend, and it's heartbreaking to know that the parents drop them off at school and tell the teachers to make them not their kids, to "fix" something that they were born with, or not have any issues...yanno, perfect. I wanna adopt them all and give them all the love they could possibly need, when it's the parents that need the lessons(that they will never care about, because they believe they are entitled to the world licking their boots), and a swift kick in the grey matter the most.

Just my 2cp.
This comic just hit me personally in too many ways to recount, as although I had two parents that cared dearly for me, society treated me like I was unwanted. I've seen it with my son's classmates and friends who live with their parents and are unwanted. Paul is really good at bringing out real life issues and emotions in his story, which is why I visit often, and refresh my mind with his tales frequently. Change Atsali and her friend to Mortals, and the impact is the same...brilliantly shown here. My thanks(even though I went through a box of Kleenex).

Oh ya, names, and what can be done to them.

Amber - Hamburger
Giselle - Gristle
Chuck - Buck-buck --> Chicken
Robert - Rob - Blob

Etc, etc....

You're fat. You smell. You're skinny. You're stupid. Your mother dresses you funny. Your hair sucks. And, you're fat.

Having aged past most highway speed limits, I look back on the monstrosities of youth and see what was missing -- self esteem. This is not installed by some school program that praises every effort (or lack thereof) blindly/blandly. That just encourages delusion. We learn to deal with the guide rails of life by bumping into them, sometimes very hard, and dealing with those bumps.

The helicopter parent whose children are forever encased in bubble wrap will most likely grow up to face the childhood challenges (disappointment, disapproval, distrust, etc) in their 20s (ahoy, clueless college students!) instead, and react even more badly. The preferable path is one of experience -- the skinned knees, the bumps and bruises, and even the wounded egos (especially that), because that's the parental opportunity to support and guide.

I'm thinking of the Dolly Parton song, Coat of Many Colors. Pride is internal, and that's why Self Esteem can't be infused, taught, or applied -- it has to be developed, and that's where the guidance comes in. From the song: One is only poor only if they choose to be. And so we have parents, heroes, and other role models. And at their best, parents try to teach how to deal with bumping into these things. How and when to respond to critics, to bullies, and defend yourself.

And what of Pickle and Atsali? I can only imagine their current environment, and that is provides little comfort or guidance in dealing with the pains and problems they encounter. Atsali/Katherine run the risk of being infatuated with each other (for all the folks rushing toward an adoption plotline), and there's much more to be done there. Kath wants very much to see Atsali safe and sound, but... things get complex there. Plus, Pickle/Atsali have their own experiences to deal with, and are reacting as any child would facing them: anger, denial, misdirection -- all ways to cope. It may not be their fault, but it IS Their Problem, and that's where Kath could provide some good guidance and comfort.

2 more cents for ya!

Any way this goes, it will be dealing with a lot of salt in a lot of wounds. Here's to Hope, and the Wisdom to make it happen well.

zachariah wrote that Arlo Guthrie had a song about a pickle

Here's the YouTube of that

Enjoy - and catch "Alice's Restaurant while you are there .

Timotheus wrote:Item one - do demons grow up with their assigned mortals?
Item six - doesn't Pickel seem to have all the attributes of a personal demon? (Could dependency be considered a personal demon?)

Atsali is a mortal after all, so personal demons are a possibility.

My idea in posing those questions is summed up in item six, Pickel seems to be displaying all the physical traits that have been previously used for indicating personal demons. The hollow eyes, the skin markings and facial patterns, the changing skin texture and growth of spiky vine structures as hair, altering voice lettering, interesting dental equipment, etc.

So I'm wondering if she might be some form of free range demon, perhaps unattached to anyone per say and thus desperate to hang onto Atsali as a anchor to this world.

We also know nothing of Kat's raising as a foundling orphan....but I suspect MIB involvement. Found in suspended animation in a crystal underground at the site of a missle crash by military personnel? What commander wouldn't unlock that special phone book with that number in it? One of Paul's drawings may not be canon, as it wasn't in the comic, but shows Kat doing aircraft mechanic stuff. That implies adopted by a military family, raised as a military kid and into the service like the folks. Then college, archeology, and the Dead Sea....Or, military service to pay for college, raised by the eggheads who came to decant the kid....
Possibilities, but - Kat's an orphan, too - or was; one of her mom's just happened to be a brand-new MIB agent.....

as363 wrote:zachariah wrote that Arlo Guthrie had a song about a pickle

Here's the YouTube of that

Enjoy - and catch "Alice's Restaurant while you are there .

I was worried that no one would catch the reference. Alice's restaurant is funny song, but long. I did learn to play the song but never mastered the lyric's. They actually made a movie about the song but it was never that popular.

I went through my own share of insults based on my name... my first name is Gaeriel... yes, I'm of Irish descent red hair and all... I always thought of it as a kind of an elvish name sort of and beautifully unique... but when I was in grade scruel, my name was shortened to Gaeri (pronounced the same as the guy name Gary) and I was always asked if I was really a boy or if I was really a boy trapped in a girl's body. (No one would ever get that impression now). By the time I was in high school and had bloomed, I was no longer the boy in a girl's body, but a beautiful girl with a very unique name.

Sidhekin wrote:Item Six: I could easily see Pickle manipulating and harassing Atsali, as her personal demon, Dependency. It is easier to see her as a dependent, though. A fellow orphan. For one thing, because few people have such close relations with their demons as Monica, Jin, and arguably Shelly.

Apropos Monica, Jin, Shelly ... it's not just mortals who have personal demons. Part-mortal origin seems sufficient.

Timotheus wrote:My idea in posing those questions is summed up in item six, Pickel seems to be displaying all the physical traits that have been previously used for indicating personal demons. The hollow eyes, the skin markings and facial patterns, the changing skin texture and growth of spiky vine structures as hair, altering voice lettering, interesting dental equipment, etc.

So I'm wondering if she might be some form of free range demon, perhaps unattached to anyone per say and thus desperate to hang onto Atsali as a anchor to this world.

I was wondering if Pickle was only seen by Atsali at first. Paul's great at misdirection, but I think the reference to the administration letting them "watch out for each other" eliminates that possibility.

However, the horns and form of her distress suggest she may be a kind of descendant of the Hate, part of the "branching out" Kath was concerned about.

Atomic wrote:The helicopter parent whose children are forever encased in bubble wrap will most likely grow up to face the childhood challenges (disappointment, disapproval, distrust, etc) in their 20s (ahoy, clueless college students!) instead, and react even more badly. The preferable path is one of experience -- the skinned knees, the bumps and bruises, and even the wounded egos (especially that), because that's the parental opportunity to support and guide.

DinkyInky wrote:This comic just hit me personally in too many ways to recount, as although I had two parents that cared dearly for me, society treated me like I was unwanted. I've seen it with my son's classmates and friends who live with their parents and are unwanted. Paul is really good at bringing out real life issues and emotions in his story, which is why I visit often, and refresh my mind with his tales frequently. Change Atsali and her friend to Mortals, and the impact is the same...brilliantly shown here. My thanks(even though I went through a box of Kleenex).

By some serendipity, I came across this TED talk this weekend, quite relevant to the current storyline. He focuses less on bullying than on what it means for parents to raise challenging children, but from the get-go, society's acceptance of harassment does not get let off. And you may want to open another box of Kleenex:

A friend who's probably getting his appropriate rewards for a number of things, good and bad, he did in his lifetime undoubtedly got a few extra years in Purgatory for naming his firstborn "Arturius Imbre <surname>"

shadowinthelight wrote:Well, if she is cracking up she can hold herself together with these:

Haw!!!
One Xmas my brother gave me some Bacon Bandaids, wavy diecut, complete in a classic J&J style tin box. Problem is, wrapped on a finger it looks like I been skinned!! Freaks people out at first.

I keep singing: "I fall to pieces..." by Patsy Kline.

Pickle is likely a nickname. Like punkin' or sweat pea or peaches.
Knew a woman once who routinely called me pickle.

Damn you Paul for making characters that can so quickly worm their way into a reader's heart! As if Atsali wasn't enough, Pickles and their relationship is incredibly endearing.

This comic rocks.

(And I love Mr. Meadows!)

bmonk wrote:

pcj70 wrote:I think Pickle is a cute nickname. As for the bullying, everything and anything can be made ugly and mean, no mater how hard one tries to limit excuses such behavior - for cruelty, stupidity and Sadism will find a way, if allowed to prevail.

Many, if not all, last names can be made hurtful--and those are harder to change. Unfortunately, kids, like other humans, are not always very humane.

Atomic wrote:Oh ya, names, and what can be done to them.

Amber - Hamburger
Giselle - Gristle
Chuck - Buck-buck --> Chicken
Robert - Rob - Blob

Etc, etc....

Truth! My last name (maiden name) was Nichols. I had a very beloved music teacher in elementary school who (as a way of showing her affection) always said my full name, but gave me the name "Nichols & Dimes" instead of just Nichols. It was amusing and sweet...until the other kids latched onto it and decided to go further. Maybe it was partly because I was at a school with a GT program, but somehow those kids kept finding things to add on until it got to the point where it bothered me (Nichols & Dimes & Quarters & Pennies & Half-Dollars & Pounds & Yen & etc...I halfway wonder if they went home and looked up foreign currencies, or if they just knew about those last two from watching the news segments talking about the strength of the Dollar).

My parents were thankfully very understanding and supportive, and they suggested that I ask my music teacher to stop calling me "Nichols & Dimes" (based on my earlier attempts to address the problem...when asked to stop they cited that she could call me that, so they could too). I did talk to her about it after class one day...and explained to her why I wanted her to stop, which she completely understood and agreed to do...but I still remember how hurt she looked that she couldn't call me by her pet-name. Stupid meanie kids for hurting my feelings and making me hurt hers! At least those of us who are teased about our names as children but are also supported by our guardians and teachers have the opportunity to learn to get past the petty things said to us. I can look back on that experience now and be amused and somewhat amazed at the things people called me because of my name.

The moral of the story is that kids can be cruel...which I think is in part due to their tendency to notice the things that are "different" (which kids are trained to do...I certainly remember the song "One of these things is not like the other" from Sesame Street) and they then point those "differences" out tactlessly...because they haven't learned tact yet. Yes, there is an element of actual meanness involved when they see that their comments are hurtful and they still say them...but that's also because many kids aren't taught to appreciate differences until they're older, so they are more inclined to ostracize instead of embrace.

Just adding my 2 cents since everyone else was.