Wapsi Square Forum

Catawampus wrote:So the Library won't let Devyn's uncles pass through into our world? That does have some implications.

It suggests that the Library considers their previous behavior to have been Naughty, and that they're not in the Mostly Harmless category. Considering what human mythology records of the behavior of the Greek gods, the Library's judgement seems reasonable.

I think it's been implied before that the Library can grant "access to Library" rights to explorers and researchers, without necessarily granting outbound-portal access. Monica was apparently of that status until the morning the Library noticed her Jaguar Girl subTitan transformation and upgraded her Library card. This seems to be the first time we've explicitly been told of a case in which a powerful Being was allowed into the Library but not trusted with access to Earth.

The greek Gods and goddesses were an incestuous bunch, weren't they? Maybe that's where the psychosis comes from? I look at those family trees of the greek gods and lose track of who begat whom and who's niece Zeus shagged...

*wanders off and pops 800 milligrams of Motrin for the greek family tree induced headache*

Dave wrote:

Catawampus wrote:So the Library won't let Devyn's uncles pass through into our world? That does have some implications.

It suggests that the Library considers their previous behavior to have been Naughty, and that they're not in the Mostly Harmless category. Considering what human mythology records of the behavior of the Greek gods, the Library's judgement seems reasonable.

I think it's been implied before that the Library can grant "access to Library" rights to explorers and researchers, without necessarily granting outbound-portal access. Monica was apparently of that status until the morning the Library noticed her Jaguar Girl subTitan transformation and upgraded her Library card. This seems to be the first time we've explicitly been told of a case in which a powerful Being was allowed into the Library but not trusted with access to Earth.

Or.... what about this. The grid was put into place to keep out the elder Gods... but... there's no reference that says their offspring can't pop out to the realm of the elder gods to visit and then return. The spoken rule has been that only the elder gods were blocked by the grid from coming to earth... Does that make sense?

DilyV wrote:Or.... what about this. The grid was put into place to keep out the elder Gods... but... there's no reference that says their offspring can't pop out to the realm of the elder gods to visit and then return. The spoken rule has been that only the elder gods were blocked by the grid from coming to earth... Does that make sense?

Sort of... but I think it's a bit more complex than that.

The World Grid is some sort of force field which apparently blocks a previously-wide-open method of reaching Earth from other dimensions. It's a technological barrier... apparently all-or-nothing... and it may have required assistance fom the Demon Realm, in addition to Lanthian technology, to set it up.

The Library has its own interdimensional gating technology... vorping and portals... which is apparently independent of the Grid's effect.

We know that the Library does grant access through its system to some very powerful beings... Bia for one, Monica and Shelly also. Zeus and Hades are apparently barred. So, the Library seems to be respecting the intent of those who set up the Grid, with respect to the most powerful of the Pantheon(s)... but we don't know just why the Library is doing so. As Bia's case shows, there seems to be a limit to whom it will forbid.

I don't think we know for sure whether the ban is based entirely on status ("Old God"), level of power, prior behavior, or the existence of some sort of explicit "restraining order" against specific gods. And, we don't understand the Library's motives... is it truly an independent player, or is under the control of some higher authority?

This is all making me think of Nightlife of the Gods, by Thorne Smith. If anybody's heard of him today it's a vague memory of the Topper movie with Cary Grant. But he wrote a passel of comic and fantasy novels, around the 20's and 30's. They were reprinted sometime in the 80's, I think, which is when me and other half collected them, and dammit, we've somehow lost them over the years. I suspect one of the times the basement flooded when books were stored at his mom's place.
Anyway! Eccentric inventor teams up with a 900 year old sexy female paranormal, and brings all the statues of the Greek gods in the Metropolitan Museum in New York to life one night. In prohibition era New York.

and a free version from Project Guternberg Australia
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600271.txt
A quote from a Goodreads review-"The two decide it would be a good idea to bring the statues of the gods at the Metropolitan Museum to life. But the gods, it turns out, are too human by half -- they immediately start to cavort, bicker, drink, and carry on in a spree of epic proportions."
Oh, the show Bewitched, was inspired by the movie I Married a Witch, which was based on the novel, The Passionate Witch, which was Thorne Smith's last book, finished by someone else and published posthumously. Huh.

Sgt. Howard wrote:Remember this- Paul had no trouble re-writing the story of the Gorgon Sisters.

Right. So we can't just assume everything from ancient mythology about Zeus and Hades and Poseidon is any more than slander.

But we do have some in-universe facts...

Dave wrote:

Catawampus wrote:So the Library won't let Devyn's uncles pass through into our world? That does have some implications.

It suggests that the Library considers their previous behavior to have been Naughty, and that they're not in the Mostly Harmless category. Considering what human mythology records of the behavior of the Greek gods, the Library's judgement seems reasonable.

Dave wrote:We know that the Library does grant access through its system to some very powerful beings... Bia for one, Monica and Shelly also. Zeus and Hades are apparently barred. So, the Library seems to be respecting the intent of those who set up the Grid, with respect to the most powerful of the Pantheon(s)... but we don't know just why the Library is doing so. As Bia's case shows, there seems to be a limit to whom it will forbid.

Well, that's point #1. For that we know that Bia did, for all her shame in realizing she was a monster... the Library still let her through.

Therefore: Wapsi Zeus and Hades (and many other previously name-checked gods) are worse offenders, and are less trustworthy than, Bia at her worst.

zachariah wrote:Good odds Bia inherited the same mental attitude.

Bia's from a different branch of Titans; she's the daughter of Pallas and Styx (whose name means Hatred). But Euryale did confirm her place at Zeus' side as an enforcer, like in ancient myth.

If Hatred's daughter is cleared to aid mankind, but her boss isn't... that does not speak well of the divine corporate culture. At. All.

Also... who was it that built the Grid, again...?

I have to admit- I LIKE the little spitfire. I can relate to that sort of response...

I rather hope things don't go with the Disneyfication of Hades. Just because he ran an underworld, doesn't make him evil. Hell, by Greek god standards Hades was the most responsible and least likely to dick people over. Besides overseeing unending punishments, he ran the rewards as well. He's one-stop shopping for all your Greek afterlife needs.

As for Devyn's uncles, the World Grid blocks everything "Titan-class" and higher from reaching the Earth. Which is also why Bia has been engaged in an ages-long breeding project to try an recreate a Titan level individual on Earth's side of the fence. This will be the second time we've had reference to the idea that the God-level folks are still interested and hanging around outside, and that people can travel through the Library network to visit them. The first being Bia being punished with a return to childhood by her father when word of her machinations came out.

Also, hi folks! Long time lurker of the daily discussion, finally registering and posting for the first time. I'll likely continue being more lurky, but I'll pipe up from time to time now.

And in the midst of all this confusion - spent a couple of hours downloading Windows 10 - what a drag. Lost Spybot Search and Destroy - along with Solitaire and mu Clock that I had running on the top-middle. Saved me time turning around and looking at the clock on the wall behind me. Oh well - it was free - and supports Firefox - thanks.

Armorlord wrote: Hell, by Greek god standards Hades was the most responsible and least likely to dick people over.

ISWYDT. I believe the Pun Vault is looking at you to set up an account.

As363: Try ClocX.

Yamara: yes, it's convenient that the one who set up the World Grid also introduced Monica to the Library.

I still have my theory that The Library is, in fact, THE primary player in all of this.

GlytchMeister wrote:Well, I think my Hades fits the current description.

Also: getting impromptu electroshock therapy to the point of synesthesia is the most imaginative threat I've ever heard, I think.

I wasn't sure if she was implying synesthesia or that somehow the tongue would grow eyes...since she said see and not taste. Either way it's a badass threat!

Also, Armorlord...I LOVE your avatar!!!

as363 wrote:And in the midst of all this confusion - spent a couple of hours downloading Windows 10 - what a drag. Lost Spybot Search and Destroy - along with Solitaire and mu Clock that I had running on the top-middle. Saved me time turning around and looking at the clock on the wall behind me. Oh well - it was free - and supports Firefox - thanks.

I've got a Win10 guinea pig thread going in the pub room. Sorta. I haven't posted there in a while, but if you have issues, the tech heads here have been a great help.

Yamara wrote:Well, that's point #1. For that we know that Bia did, for all her shame in realizing she was a monster... the Library still let her through.

Therefore: Wapsi Zeus and Hades (and many other previously name-checked gods) are worse offenders, and are less trustworthy than, Bia at her worst.

It was said that the Library judged individuals based on their current intentions. Bia might have made a mess of things, but she did mean well by it all. So either Zeus and Hades don't have good intentions, or else the Library just has a special grudge against them.

All this discussion regarding the old gods is interesting and all, but it is obvious by Devyn's last statement that her uncles apples didn't fall very far from their trees. I mean, really, between the target of the proposed lightning bolt and the psychotic form of the warning, seems like those apples are still attached to that tree.

To me it looks like the Library has a Heinleinesqe view of things. That religion was a crutch for those that can not stand on their own two feet. By eliminating the Elder Gods it took out the major players in the god wars and is forcing mankind to develop in a more technological and science direction instead of a magic and religion based direction. I think it bases who gets through on the intentions of the being, ie what it wanted mankind for.

Catawampus wrote:So either Zeus and Hades don't have good intentions, or else the Library just has a special grudge against them.

Or both.

Orlah Ehontas wrote:All this discussion regarding the old gods is interesting and all, but it is obvious by Devyn's last statement that her uncles apples didn't fall very far from their trees. I mean, really, between the target of the proposed lightning bolt and the psychotic form of the warning, seems like those apples are still attached to that tree.

That is the immediate ironic joke, yes. Though since the Library lets her visit her mighty kin, she obviously means well... threatening to para-taser... her movie night buddy... into delusion. . . . .

Lightning blasts were the exclusive province of Zeus in myth, but I guess in Wapsiworld it's paragenetic. Which brings us back to why Devyn is so sensitive to the family teasing: Even if she's 110% sure of her parentage, how can anyone else be? Their reputation is not going to help them make or keep the peace with the "nons". And it's likely dawning on Dev that repairing it is going to fall to her.

Yamara wrote: And it's likely dawning on Dev that repairing it is going to fall to her.

Aye and THERE's the crux of the biscut that is...

Yamara wrote:Therefore: Wapsi Zeus and Hades (and many other previously name-checked gods) are worse offenders, and are less trustworthy than, Bia at her worst.

#snip#

If Hatred's daughter is cleared to aid mankind, but her boss isn't... that does not speak well of the divine corporate culture. At. All.

Re-reading Devyn's remark... it's possible that Zeus and Hades aren't even allowed to enter the Library.

She referred to visiting them "through the Library", not "in the Library". They might be barred from even entering the Library through a portal, in which case Devyn would be transiting the Library portal system to get to whatever world or dimension in which Zeus and Hades are still hanging out.

oldmanmickey wrote:To me it looks like the Library has a Heinleinesqe view of things. That religion was a crutch for those that can not stand on their own two feet. By eliminating the Elder Gods it took out the major players in the god wars and is forcing mankind to develop in a more technological and science direction instead of a magic and religion based direction. I think it bases who gets through on the intentions of the being, ie what it wanted mankind for.

And I think part of this may have been in direct response to what happened with the Calendar Machine.