Wapsi Square Forum

Right - the crucial factor would be mass.

Right, which is referred to as critical mass. Below that point you have a controlled reaction as in a power plant, above that and you have an uncontrolled reaction also know as a bomb.

oldmanmickey wrote:Right, which is referred to as critical mass. Below that point you have a controlled reaction as in a power plant, above that and you have an uncontrolled reaction also know as a bomb.

That applies to fission*. The anti-matter/matter reaction occurs right down to sub-atomic levels - one electron and one positron will annihilate each other quite nicely.

The way that mass applies to matter/anti-matter is in calculating how much energy would be released, at e-mc^2.

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* Power plants also have to be critical - with a "k" exceeding one - or there won't be a chain reaction.

I think there's too much focus on the bomb, and not enough on what Nadette may be doing. Let's consider the facts. Nad isn't stupid. She knows a BIG BOOM is on the way (and I'd like to know why this didn't happen earlier. Did Senator Stacie just die, after thousands of years of suspension? Did someone try getting into her tube not that long ago? Did Nad's entry into the Stasis Room start the countdown?). She's apparently had a massive infusion of information on the complex and the people there, she believes the only way they're going to survive is to be somewhere else when the complex goes, and she's been running towards a definite objective and not just around in a panic. I suspect her talk of the protocol of shutting the door isn't about containing the bomb blast, but rather because there's something in the room she's heading into that she thinks may save her and Atsali, and shutting the door is necessary to use it.

Of course I'm probably wrong.

Thor wrote:

zachariah wrote:No as required by antimatter safe rules. When a door is open close it. It won't antimatter anyway, but the rules must be followed.

Following the rules of grammar, if it won't anti-matter that means it will matter, since the negatives cancel.

So, if you are a teenager, and you think these are your last seconds on Earth, what are the odds that the words "Screw it! I'm not going to die without getting to at least 3rd base!" go through your head while you and an attractive young lady are cowering together in a makeshift bunker?

If you are a teenager you've seen enough loony tunes to know a closed door will contain any explosion as long as the hero is on the outside. The door will bulge outward, then settle back in place with only a little blast escaping around the edges.

They won't have those thoughts I expect they will just keep running.

DilyV wrote:Matter. And. Antimatter. Don't. Mix.

when Matter and Anti Matter mix they annihilate each other creating the reactions I spoke of yesterday... In a world of matter, antimatter is BAD.

I think its not atsali that needs the gibbs slap... its Nadette. She's obviously channeling someone else here.

In case no one else picked up on it, take a look at Nadette's hair. She's living between the now and then; enough where she's starting to slowly merge her look to that of the Etheitian she is "channeling."

I think Nadette's hairstyle change can be blamed more on speed than anything else. Look at Atsali's hair doing pretty much the same thing except slightly different due to length.

I think all the panic and speculation about the anti-matter bomb is a moot point.
I had to go back and re-read the dialogue to make sure, but Nadette declared the Senator had the bomb rigged to go off in the event of her death.
Nadette also declared that the Senator is dead.
Therefore the detonation that should have occurred in the event of the Senator's death did not occur.
Therefore I propose that the Nu Gui anticipated the Senator's trap and defused it long ago.
There is no bomb and perhaps there never was one.

Is it just me, or does it look like Nadette is closing the door to trap Atsali in the chamber?? Door partially closed, body blocking the gap, mind possibly controlled by outside influence?

Hansontoons wrote:Is it just me, or does it look like Nadette is closing the door to trap Atsali in the chamber?? Door partially closed, body blocking the gap, mind possibly controlled by outside influence?

It's not just you... that was my early reaction to seeing their position and stances.

On looking at it again... yeah, it still looks that way. Nadette seems to be more concerned about closing the door, than having Atsali be on the right (in both senses, "dexter" and "correct") side of it after it's closed.

That may be just coincidence... or maybe Nadette has sinister thoughts in mind.

(Deposits a high-school door pass in the Pun Jar)

Someone's going to poit them out of there.

...

Right?

Naemless wrote:Um. The output of an antimatter/matter reaction is determined by the quantity of antimatter involved. Two grams of antimatter will give something approximating a 30Mtonne nuke. For all we know the bomb is only two micrograms, or even less. But we don't.

You sure? According to what I found, a modern fusion bomb converts about 45 grams of matter into a one-megaton explosion. So two grams of antimatter (plus a matching two grams of matter) should produce a bit under 100 kilotons.

But you're right that we are *completely guessing* how much antimatter might be involved.

And we're also assuming that the containment field is perfect. If it has leaked very slowly, there might be no antimatter left at all, while providing no evidence that is obvious from more than a few inches away.

starkruzr wrote:Someone's going to poit them out of there.

...

Right?

With the meltdown of the upper levels of the complex it SHOULD be possible for someone to poit in and out now. And the Library's transport system works, we know. The thing is, there are only two people who know Atsali and Nadette are there, and Tsillah and her mom don't know about the anti matter bomb. They're also distracted because Thymbris blew up the Library access point to the complex, and they'll have to find another before they can return.

So I think the Bird and the Bear are on their own, in this.

oldmanmickey wrote:

lake_wrangler wrote:Question: would an antimatter explosion advance exponentially, rather than geometrically?

To me, geometrically does not make sense. I may very well be wrong, of course, but I can't help but wonder...

In mathematics, a geometric progression, also known as a geometric sequence, is a sequence of numbers where each term after the first is found by multiplying the previous one by a fixed, non-zero number called the common ratio. For example, the sequence 2, 6, 18, 54, ... is a geometric progression with common ratio 3. Similarly 10, 5, 2.5, 1.25, ... is a geometric sequence with common ratio 1/2. All self sustaining nuclear sequences are geometric based on a common ratio of 2.

Ah. Thank you.

I guess I'll go to bed less stupid, tonight...

sheik wrote:I think all the panic and speculation about the anti-matter bomb is a moot point.
I had to go back and re-read the dialogue to make sure, but Nadette declared the Senator had the bomb rigged to go off in the event of her death.
Nadette also declared that the Senator is dead.
Therefore the detonation that should have occurred in the event of the Senator's death did not occur.
Therefore I propose that the Nu Gui anticipated the Senator's trap and defused it long ago.
There is no bomb and perhaps there never was one.

My theory is the anti-matter bomb is ^inside* the stasis chamber with the senator.

While Stasis Chambers may not be 'as stable as the stasis crystals', they do work.

As there is no decomposition showing on the senator's body, we can assume that while the stasis chamber didn't keep her alive, it is still working to some extent.

For all we know, the senator might have died over a thousand years ago, but inside the stasis chamber only seconds might have passed.

And if that is the case, the anti-matter bomb is either in the process detonating and is being slowed down by the stasis field - which if you have set a booby trap having the antimatter bomb inside the stasis field is not the best option.



And if it outside the field then why didn't it detonate the moment the stasis chamber detected the senator had died? There would have to have sensors to detect if the occupant is alive/dead, and maybe that's how Nadette knew the senator was dead? A obvious (to Nadette with her current insight) warning light saying the person inside the tube is dead?

....

ok, according to Nadette, the anti-mater bomb was set to go off when she (the senator) died OR someone tampered with her tube.

Either the bomb was set wrong and didn't go off or someone has already been here and disarmed the bomb or ...

... Nadette does say the signal was 'probably set for the Nu Gui'.

If the senator is already dead (*boom*) why set a signal to attract the Nu Gui? If she could see that the senator was already dead, why would she need to 'tamper with the tube' ?

The only two options that make sense to me are:

1) the bomb has already been triggered/detonated, we just haven't seen the effect yet (delayed by stasis field?). Not the best way of trying to kill the Nu Gui.
2) the signal was meant for the Nu Gui and the detonate condition was something like, IF someone tampers with the tube OR "X" number of seconds after someone enters the room.

both of which would mean there is still an explosion yet to happen, but the second option means it is going to happen very soon

Well, it's good to see the girls are (a) making the most of whatever time is available looking for a way out and/or getting as much distance as possible and (b) following safety protocols

Curiously, Nadette's side of the door seems to be lit? A door to the outside? A room with power? Perhaps a stargate room with it's own power? (not much use without an Ethetian, but the most likely place Grandma Lilly would arrive at?)


ps: will we ever find out about those shadows that were moving by themselves? Were they just 'echoes' of the people that died?

DilyV wrote:Matter. And. Antimatter. Don't. Mix.

Now I am imagining a rather short episode of "Will It Blend?"

Thor wrote:

zachariah wrote:No as required by antimatter safe rules. When a door is open close it. It won't antimatter anyway, but the rules must be followed.

Following the rules of grammar, if it won't anti-matter that means it will matter, since the negatives cancel...

Indeed, as per Hawkwind's "Quark, Strangeness and Charm":

We got sick of chat-chat-chatter
And the look upon everybody's face
But that doesn't not anti-matter
Now we found ourselves a black hole out in space

Grantwhy wrote:And if that is the case, the anti-matter bomb is either in the process detonating and is being slowed down by the stasis field - which if you have set a booby trap having the antimatter bomb inside the stasis field is not the best option.

much snippage...

1) the bomb has already been triggered/detonated, we just haven't seen the effect yet (delayed by stasis field?). Not the best way of trying to kill the Nu Gui.
2) the signal was meant for the Nu Gui and the detonate condition was something like, IF someone tampers with the tube OR "X" number of seconds after someone enters the room.

for the first point, i'd say that is the BEST place to put a mammary-trapped bomb. you have it set up to detonate BUT... you put it into stasis in the first milli-micro-nano-second AFTER it does so, but BEFORE the fireball can expand outwards... NOW you have a STABLE, PRE-DETONATED, EXPLOSION!! one that is now impossible to STOP (except by NOT cracking the seal on the stasis)... and as long as your stasis field lasts, it will not FINISH the explosion... and if you don't want anything ELSE inside the field with it to be tampered with, like the Senator seems to want, then as soon as it opens up, poof! ALL the Magic-smoke is emitted and the world around it becomes non-operational in the resulting boom...
if i remember correctly, i seem to recall a version of this trick being used in Larry Niven's Ringworld universe, with Pre-detonated bombs being held in stasis until they get opened, and the BOOM happens later, typically in a highly secure research facility that gets taken out along with the smart guys that figured out how to open it in the first place... and those humans won't be around to lend their brains to the upcoming battle with the race that set the traps in the first place.

as for the second point, i doubt that it would be set for a time delay, only because the delay would be giving Thup the time needed to POIT OUT. only an instant detonation would be able to do the job.

i'm still going with my theory that the room is shielded somehow from an anti-matter explosion and like zachariah said, a loony-tunes blast that damages nothing (much) OUTSIDE of that shielded area. but i wouldn't be totally opposed to having the bomb been defused or even sabotaged by Thup (or by people working FOR Thup, like the Generals that were witnesses for the meltdown), a LOOOONNNGGG time ago.

then again, HOW does Nadette know the Senator IS dead? I'm gonna say that she is NOT dead, because the bomb had not yet detonated, and she's in error about what is going to happen... I'll wager some Moxana Points on Stacie being RELEASED from the stasis chamber and we have ourselves a new character. one that now has to deal with a VAST amount of culture-shock, PTSD, and betrayal, as well as going from basically a Post-Singularity High-Tech society, back to what in her mind is probably equated to her like how what we call our tech, versus the Stone Age equivalent... and, and, and... yeah, an interesting character background to say the least.

oldmanmickey wrote:

lake_wrangler wrote:Question: would an antimatter explosion advance exponentially, rather than geometrically?

To me, geometrically does not make sense. I may very well be wrong, of course, but I can't help but wonder...

In mathematics, a geometric progression, also known as a geometric sequence, is a sequence of numbers where each term after the first is found by multiplying the previous one by a fixed, non-zero number called the common ratio. For example, the sequence 2, 6, 18, 54, ... is a geometric progression with common ratio 3. Similarly 10, 5, 2.5, 1.25, ... is a geometric sequence with common ratio 1/2. All self sustaining nuclear sequences are geometric based on a common ratio of 2.

As opposed to a geographic progression, in which all of the numbers jump wildly around across the map until reaching Mornington Crescent. But that's rather advanced mathematics.

scantrontb wrote: for the first point, i'd say that is the BEST place to put a mammary-trapped bomb. you have it set up to detonate BUT... you put it into stasis in the first milli-micro-nano-second AFTER it does so, but BEFORE the fireball can expand outwards... NOW you have a STABLE, PRE-DETONATED, EXPLOSION!! one that is now impossible to STOP (except by NOT cracking the seal on the stasis)... and as long as your stasis field lasts, it will not FINISH the explosion... and if you don't want anything ELSE inside the field with it to be tampered with, like the Senator seems to want, then as soon as it opens up, poof! ALL the Magic-smoke is emitted and the world around it becomes non-operational in the resulting boom...

Which would be a bit rough on the senator if the stasis chamber had served its intended function of keeping her from being killed by all of the mess going on. I imagine that her main goal was survival, not energetic suicide. The antimatter bomb was a back-up plan for if surviving was no longer one of the options.

Having the bomb held in the stasis field would probably be the best option, seeing as how then stasis field would compliment the antimatter containment (assuming that the stasis field and containment field didn't interfere with each other disastrously, which doesn't seem to have happened in this case). Then you could have the trigger work in two different ways: a dead-woman switch where the bomb goes off after the stasis period ends if the senator's vital signs don't register within a set amount of time, and then another switch that turns off the stasis field and detonates the bomb if somebody messes with the stasis chamber in an unapproved way.

The interesting part would be having the system determine that the senator was dead and deciding to trigger the bomb without dropping the stasis field, as seems to be the case here; you can't really measure vital signs of a person who is in absolute stasis. That implies that the stasis system isn't total stasis. Either the observed rate of time has been slowed down to an extremely slow yet still measurable level that allows the machine to record ongoing vital signs and to detect when those stop, or else there is some sort of reliable rate of information corruption that gradually breaks down the person in stasis and will at a calculated time reach a cumulative amount that is considered no longer able to be revived.

Warrl wrote: You sure? According to what I found, a modern fusion bomb converts about 45 grams of matter into a one-megaton explosion. So two grams of antimatter (plus a matching two grams of matter) should produce a bit under 100 kilotons.

Your theory is not accurate because the fusion reaction of a modern bomb does not utilize all of its mass into the explosion and therefor has a high amount of wasted reaction. An anti-matter reaction is a total conversion to energy and therefor no waste. So it would have a higher yield gram for gram than any known atomic weapon.