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Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:02 am
by Sidhekin
illiad wrote:
Thor wrote:Atsali is quite the person, isn't she?

She's only been in the comic for 21 months, and in that short time, she's wrangled herself into the position of de facto lead character.

Not bad for a bird-brained teenager.
well this is *her* story... we will soon get back to the main character... y'know, that girl who sits on the title of the home page??? :E
Well ...
On Facebook, Paul Taylor wrote:Why yes, Atsali and Calista (Cricket) are the two new main characters of Wapsi Square - formerly Monica and Shelly.
... and in a comment to that Facebook status, the very same fine fellow wrote:Someone had been wondering why I was drawing Atsali so much.
(ETA: Hang on, you can read it without logging in on Facebook. Oh well, I've already quoted this stuff ...)
On the other hand ...
Neil Gaiman wrote:Don't trust the storyteller; only trust the story.
8-)

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:10 am
by AnotherFairportfan
Thor wrote:
DilyV wrote: and um... Yeah... Nadette... ya know...
I'm in the middle of re-reading all the Atsali strips, because why TF not, and here's a little foreshadowing -- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/cherokee-wisdom/

Follow Nadette's eyeline. She is totally scoping out Atsali bustline.

If she's been attracted since Day 1 of meeting Atsali, then I have to commend her, as she has been very discreet up til now.
Ah ha! Da bearz are from North Carolina!

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:19 am
by AnotherFairportfan
Sidhekin wrote:
illiad wrote:
Thor wrote:Atsali is quite the person, isn't she?

She's only been in the comic for 21 months, and in that short time, she's wrangled herself into the position of de facto lead character.

Not bad for a bird-brained teenager.
well this is *her* story... we will soon get back to the main character... y'know, that girl who sits on the title of the home page??? :E
Well ...
On Facebook, Paul Taylor wrote:Why yes, Atsali and Calista (Cricket) are the two new main characters of Wapsi Square - formerly Monica and Shelly.
... and in a comment to that Facebook status, the very same fine fellow wrote:Someone had been wondering why I was drawing Atsali so much.
My brother (David Weber) had been planning to do much the same with the Honor Harrington series - in fact, he was planning for Honor to die at Trafalgar^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H in battle and follow along with the next generation of Manticoran characters (including at least some of her own children), but he changed his mind (and telescoped his planned time sequence) somewhat.

=========

EDIT to add: For those too young to know, "^H" is the ASCII backspace character. This board doesn't do strikeouts...

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:55 am
by zachariah
AnotherFairportfan wrote: Ah ha! Da bearz are from North Carolina!
Not necessarily. Depends on whether they are eastern, or western, Cherokee. Eastern is from North Carolina, Western from the Oklahoma area. I think western as they did say they had been in a western school and were moving east when the girls first met.
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/ursamorphs/

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:09 am
by AnotherFairportfan
zachariah wrote:
AnotherFairportfan wrote: Ah ha! Da bearz are from North Carolina!
Not necessarily. Depends on whether they are eastern, or western, Cherokee. Eastern is from North Carolina, Western from the Oklahoma area. I suspect western as they did say they had been in a western school and were moving east when the girls first met.
Ain't many bears in Oklahoma.

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:14 am
by zachariah
AnotherFairportfan wrote:
zachariah wrote:
AnotherFairportfan wrote: Ah ha! Da bearz are from North Carolina!
Not necessarily. Depends on whether they are eastern, or western, Cherokee. Eastern is from North Carolina, Western from the Oklahoma area. I suspect western as they did say they had been in a western school and were moving east when the girls first met.
Ain't many bears in Oklahoma.
They are part of the tribes and don't live in the woods. So yes there can be bears in Oklahoma. If ya want woods and hills check out eastern part of the state. They are just okies from Muskogee.

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:08 am
by kingklash
AnotherFairportfan wrote:
zachariah wrote:
AnotherFairportfan wrote: Ah ha! Da bearz are from North Carolina!
Not necessarily. Depends on whether they are eastern, or western, Cherokee. Eastern is from North Carolina, Western from the Oklahoma area. I suspect western as they did say they had been in a western school and were moving east when the girls first met.
Ain't many bears in Oklahoma.
According to oral tradition, a large potion of the bear population are descended from transformed Kiowa. One of the reasons we hold bears in special regard. Those of us raised in traditional ways will not touch anything that once was part of a real bear, as Bear Medicine is right powerful and generally bad luck to encounter without very, very special dispensation. At work, when someone brings in jewelry with a bear tooth or claw on it, I have to break the news that it will be a hard sell in this part of the state, as it's mostly Kiowa around here, and never, never try to sell it to an elder if they don't know what tribe. Kiowas can be every bit as "earthy" as Comanches if you upset them enough.

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:33 am
by jeffepp
Thor wrote:
DilyV wrote: and um... Yeah... Nadette... ya know...
I'm in the middle of re-reading all the Atsali strips, because why TF not, and here's a little foreshadowing -- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/cherokee-wisdom/

Follow Nadette's eyeline. She is totally scoping out Atsali bustline.

If she's been attracted since Day 1 of meeting Atsali, then I have to commend her, as she has been very discreet up til now.
Further note the location of her hand, relative to Atsali's posterior.

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:08 am
by DilyV
Thor wrote:
DilyV wrote: and um... Yeah... Nadette... ya know...
I'm in the middle of re-reading all the Atsali strips, because why TF not, and here's a little foreshadowing -- http://wapsisquare.com/comic/cherokee-wisdom/

Follow Nadette's eyeline. She is totally scoping out Atsali bustline.

If she's been attracted since Day 1 of meeting Atsali, then I have to commend her, as she has been very discreet up til now.
I'd noticed that too... and is that Nadette's hand on Atsali's butt? Really... look at where her arm is.

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:36 am
by Warrl
AnotherFairportfan wrote:
zachariah wrote:
AnotherFairportfan wrote: Ah ha! Da bearz are from North Carolina!
Not necessarily. Depends on whether they are eastern, or western, Cherokee. Eastern is from North Carolina, Western from the Oklahoma area. I suspect western as they did say they had been in a western school and were moving east when the girls first met.
Ain't many bears in Oklahoma.
1) They moved east to go to school. The school is in Minneapolis. Minneapolis is not east relative to either North Carolina or Oklahoma.

2) Someone with a Cherokee great-grandmother could be as little as 1/8 Cherokee. (Or less, if great-grandmother wasn't full-blood.)

3) If the bears lived around a lot of Cherokee and pretty much all their relatives thought of themselves as Cherokee, they probably wouldn't bother to mention that great-grandmother was Cherokee (because hey, isn't everyone?*).

4) It's modern times. You can find Cherokee living all over the US and in a few other places.

Western Montana is a great place for bears.

* Sometimes it seems like practically everyone is 1/8 or 1/16 Cherokee. That includes my wife and I, according to our older relatives on certain days (the stories vary). But our combined knowledge of Cherokee culture could maybe fill a dimple on a golf ball.

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:47 am
by Dave
Thor wrote:If she's been attracted since Day 1 of meeting Atsali, then I have to commend her, as she has been very discreet up til now.
Maybe this is a gentle example of the "It's the quiet ones you have to watch" trope?

Nadette's low-key approach to Atsali (in both senses of the word) would seem consistent with what we know of her. Since she's prone to Seeing and then speaking embarrassing truths, she's learned to remain silent a lot. She lets Berdine take the lead and be the talkative (and expressive) representative of the duo. Nadette sits back, watches and sees and Sees, and perhaps she mostly keeps her own counsel unless asked directly.

Maybe, too, the fact that she Sees so much about other peoples' histories and fates and needs and desires, has left her out of practice when it comes to expressing her own?

But, I think she has now outed herself past the point of hiding or misexplaining it. It will be very interesting to see how Atsali reacts, when she cools down from her sister-rage-snit-fit enough to think through what just happened, and what it implies. Atsali's life and situation just got even more complex than they were!

"It is perhaps one of life's more interesting ironies that, of the many who beseech the Goddess to send them love, so few will accept it when it comes, because it has come in what they consider the wrong shape, or the wrong size, or at the wrong time. Against our prejudices, even the Goddess strives in vain."

(Harmatics, chapter 6, S'Berenh, "The Door into Fire", by Diane Duane
)

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:18 am
by lake_wrangler
Sidhekin wrote: Well ...
On Facebook, Paul Taylor wrote:Why yes, Atsali and Calista (Cricket) are the two new main characters of Wapsi Square - formerly Monica and Shelly.
... and in a comment to that Facebook status, the very same fine fellow wrote:Someone had been wondering why I was drawing Atsali so much.
(ETA: Hang on, you can read it without logging in on Facebook. Oh well, I've already quoted this stuff ...)
On the other hand ...
Neil Gaiman wrote:Don't trust the storyteller; only trust the story.
8-)
Well, I hope they don't fade too far into the background... There are still many story lines left dangling:
  • What will happen with Tina, who was one of the five winged beings prophesied to... (we have no idea what the prophecy was)
  • Tina has been evolving, becoming more than just a bunch of demons who inhabit a former corpse... what will she become?
  • What of Bia? Or has she "conveniently" become a child, so as to fit in with the new crew?
  • Will we see more of Georgette and her demons? How is she acclimating to the new arrangements? How is she doing, healing-wise, now that the tar has been excised?
  • What will become of the Golem Girls? Will they appear, from time to time, having been established as surrogate aunts to Atsali and Castela?
  • Will Monica be getting more assignments in her function as Jaguar Girl?
  • Will she continue to mentor Calista, therefore appearing once in a while in the comic?
  • Will we ever see what happens when Jin finally dies? How will the others take it?
  • Will Calista find a way to restore Minietzel? (Judging from the picture on the linked Facebook page, it looks like he might be like that for a while...)
Not to mention all the other characters we've come to know and love... (Nudge, Tsillah, the vampires, Phix, Euryale, Amanda, Heather, Shelly, Daren, Kevin, Owen, Lakshmi - admittedly, those two were mostly phased out a while back, but still...)

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:02 pm
by illiad
... and in a comment to that Facebook status, the very same fine fellow wrote:Someone had been wondering why I was drawing Atsali so much.
Can't leave the tig ol' bitties???

well it may look like he has been spending too much time at the cabaret... I hear Chelsea might put in an appearance there... :p

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:01 pm
by MerchManDan
Sidhekin wrote:Well ...
On Facebook, Paul Taylor wrote:Why yes, Atsali and Calista (Cricket) are the two new main characters of Wapsi Square - formerly Monica and Shelly.
...I had thought Paul was being sarcastic when he said that. :|

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:20 pm
by lake_wrangler
Other loose ends:
  • Will Lilly ever find inner peace, with her new family?
  • Will Monica ever get over her insecurities?
  • Will Kevin ever take the initiative? ;)
I don't know... maybe it's because after 12 years of Monica & Co., two years to transition to Atsali & Co. seems a little short. Then again, I'm not sure how else Paul could have done the transition, so I can't complain... Besides, if Paul couldn't think of any other big adventure to send Monica on, he might have got bored of it all, then we'd be the worst off for it.

But it won't be the same... :|

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:57 pm
by Drakkenmensch
Warm cookies: the birth of a new euphemism for large breasts!

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:24 pm
by Dave
lake_wrangler wrote:But it won't be the same... :|
You're right, it won't be. And, it never has been.

The thing I've noticed about Wapsi Square (since I started reading it, and through my archive dives) is that it's very much about growth and change. The individual characters we love have grown and changed... both Monica and Shelly are far more, now, than they were shown to be at first. The "playing field" has grown and changed... from a small corner of Minneapolis in the first years of the 21st century it has grown to include many centuries of linear and folded time, multiple dimensions, civilizations both modern and ancient, both human and paranormal and mixed.

The cast has grown and changed over time, certainly. In reading through some of the old comments, I can recall seeing people opine that those strange new "drunk Golem Girl" characters that Paul was about to introduce were going to change Wapsi for the worse, would be a distraction, etc. - and now these same ancient young ladies are a crucial part of what we certainly don't want to lose.

My "take" on what's happening now, for what it's worth, is that Paul is widening the playing field again... giving us yet another slice of paranormal life that we hadn't seen before. In some respects, we've learned more about the paranormal aspect of the Wapsiverse in the last 18 months (since Atsali first appeared) than we'd seen in all the years before. And, I don't think that the new "young crowd" is going to utterly displace the players we're used to - rather, they'll be integrated into it, as they become more and more adult. Katherine said that her girls were being authorized to go on even more adventures with her... I rather expect that's actually how it's going to work out in time, and that others of the "older generation" will also be involved. It'll take time to set up the situations and the interpersonal dynamics... but I do think Paul will get us there.

I do love Monica and Shelly and Tina and the others. I don't think we're going to lose them. But, even the most tasty and familiar dish can be better for a bit of change and amendment. Frankly, both Monica and Shelly have already "leveled up" so much, that focusing the strip primarily on their "further adventures" might be a bit risky... how much more power could they gain, and how could it be kept interesting? I'm not sure we'd want to see Wapsi turn into a DC Comics superhero "Monica and Shelly slug it out with Shiva and Amun" power-fest.

The really fun thing, I think, will be seeing them grow into their roles as elders and good examples... and for that to work, they need somebody to whom they can be elder examples. Hence, the young'uns.

I really am enjoying seeing the way Atsali is being portrayed, as she tackles the difficult journey into young adulthood. That's not an easy journey even for humans, and Atsali's situation is at least as complicated in most ways, and far tougher in others. Body-image, self-image, personal ethics, power, interpersonal relationships... she's turned from a bird-brain into a complex and very interesting character.

I have no doubt that she, and Pickle, and Cricket, and the Bears, have a lot to learn... and we'll almost certainly be seeing Monica, and Shelly, and Tina, and Phix, and Grandma Lily, and Aunt Bud, and etc. do a bunch of the teaching. We may not see as much of the senior class as we're used to, but I do expect they'll be around, and in crucially important ways. And the loose ends... well, Paul has repeatedly demonstrated his skill for taking a bunch of "loose ends" apparently left dangling several years before, and then weaving them into an amazing technicolor dreamcarpet with which he then abruptly yanks our feet out from under us 8-)

Sky Masterson: "One of these days in your travels, a guy is going to show you a brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken. Then this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the jack of spades jump out of this brand-new deck of cards and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not accept this bet, because as sure as you stand there, you're going to wind up with an ear full of cider."

Kinda like that, but different.

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:31 pm
by lake_wrangler
I know and agree with most of what you said. I guess I'm not even really arguing against it, either...

I know, intellectually, that it had to happen, that there was only so much Paul could add to what Monica and Shelly were doing and had accomplished, and he needed to have some new and less powerful/experienced players in order for the comic to continue without turning into DC Comics, as you so aptly said. But this time, instead of just having new and unusual things happen to the original duo, and having different people move into and out of their lives, the focus of the comic has shifted so that they are officially no longer the main characters of the comic. Sure, they'll have supporting roles still, but it won't be the same. It can't be the same. And we'll just have to live with it...

I do hope Paul does tie up the loose ends eventually. It will be interesting to see how that will happen.

In the meantime, it will take some getting used to, seeing the comic shift from Monica's adventures into the paranormal world (kicking and screaming all the way there) to a high school drama, paranormal though it be.

Like I said, I just hope they Monica & Co. don't end up fading too much into the background.

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:09 pm
by Catawampus
Well, now we'll have thirteen years of comics centered around Atsali & Co., which can then segue into thirteen years of comics about Monica's and Shelly's kids, and by the end of that time it may be set to change over to thirteen years of comics about Atsali's and Calista's children. . .

Shifting the focus now seems as good a time as any. All of the loose ends and further character development of the original batch of characters can be part of what keeps them involved in future story arcs, perhaps with the new kids adding in their own contributions that are what end up pushing those loose ends to conclusion. We already see Calista being key to helping Monica become more responsible in her position, and Atsali and Castela have certainly pulled Katherine's character far out from where her comfort zone used to be. I'm sure that there will be all sorts of interesting interactions coming up in the future (I'd imagine that Nadette venturing into Mucho Mocha might be quite the meeting, perhaps).

Re: One Spare Sister 2014-10-28

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:18 pm
by lake_wrangler
I'd say you're probably right about most of those things, except, perhaps, for one: I don't expect the new crew to spend too much time in Mucho Mocha, now that they have established that there is another coffee shop that might interest them somewhat (to say the least, as far as Atsali is concerned...) But I hope they do, visit... The interaction with Tina might be quite interesting... And Atsali already knows about her. Although that may turn out to be a reason to stay away... Her first and last visit there did not turn out quite as expected...