Wapsi Square Forum

Bathorys Daughter wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't being a sociopath a bad thing?

It is a matter of degrees. She said that she is "just enough of a sociopath" not a total sociopath. A total sociopath can be as close to evil as it can get (Charles Manson anyone), but everyone has a limited amount of being a sociopath (just look at most young children before they are taught to share). But a small amount of sociopathic behavior is needed when you must do the hard jobs (ex: a soldier in a war zone must be able to shoot to stay alive but still care about the safety of his unit). Without that little bit of sociopath that person would not be able to fire and would most likely be dead. So the "Heart of a Lion" reference is the saving part here. It means that she cares about the people around her and is a protective spirit to those around her (at least that is my take.)

Hrm..

I feel like a lot of people do not exactly understand hów the Demon-world functions, and what it actually is / stands for.

As I see it, the Demons are our raw, uncivilized, non-PC deeper inner urges. They are what we are if One cuts away that little veneer of civilization on which we agreed to keep our societies livable. (Just pop into Syria, or any other country knee-deep in a -civil- war, and see hów thin the layer of our "civilized behavior actually is. Veterans are, perhaps, more appreciating of that little fact than "normal Civillians" that néver have seen, or had to commit (!) what in a civilized society would be called atrocities. And, yes, war is a disgusting bussiness.)

The ónly way to keep Demons and other supernatural beasties in check, is showing You are stronger, prepared to act-out atrocities more severe than they can imagine. Monica is a "Demon shepard" That means that she's the ultimate authority in that realm. And cruelty, stripped of every bit of civilized discourse is the norm there. Anything else does not work.
I would think that the way Phix acted when that other Sphinx was heckling her, was enough of an illustration hów things work in that realm.

One does not "talk" reason into Demons and other supernatural/C-Space entities, One sets their asses on fire.

I see no reason why Monica would be as callous and cruel to "normals" as she is to supernatural forces. It's two wholly different realms. Her little speech illustrates that she is aware of the stark difference between the "real world" and the supernatural world, she is now appointed to "herd"

When she talks about it being a little "fresher already."
I keep wondering if she's going to say something like, "Is it drafty in here or..Oh, it IS me."

Well my guess a couple days ago has borne out -- Monican's statement that "I needed to save a covey of demons as well" shows that the Demon Shepherd is as at least as much about protecting demons as protecting people from demons.

The next sentence “It feels fresher in here already.” would also indicate that the relationship between demons and humans is more symbiotic than parasitic, a healthy covey of demons is needed for a healthy mind. Sort of like the bacteria in your gut.

But she needs to have words with Anger and Hate. They seem to be the alphas of the covey, and without the need to spend time keeping the tar under control they could, possibly unintentionally, cause problems.

After all the very interesting back-and-forth over the weekend, I find today's explanation quite satisfying actually, even if she admits to some sociopath tendencies. At least she recognizes it. Whether those tendencies grow, stay in check (as she seems to indicate is the current case), or are eliminated is part of her evolution, I'm guessing.

Again, just a guess!

My2Cents wrote:The next sentence “It feels fresher in here already.” would also indicate that the relationship between demons and humans is more symbiotic than parasitic, a healthy covey of demons is needed for a healthy mind. Sort of like the bacteria in your gut.

I like that analogy.

Masterof7s wrote:Ah, good. The little padawan is learning.

All that touchy-feely, I'm okay, you're okay garbage has no place in a realm where the rule of law is that the strong dominate the weak.

Human perspective and rationale in the human realm, the way of beasts and strength in the feral lands.

I sure wish those in RL understood that... a wild animal(badger, deer, etc..) is not a 'cuddly toy' or anything similar to a domesticated dog or cat... :/

zachariah wrote: They don't have any shoes to drop so you'll be waiting a long time. No comes the moment of true where they bare all. Or 'No nudes is Bad nudes.'

well the 'comic code' has to keep the site at PG-13' and no higher...

The level of nudity is well up to American tabloid level ... " {insert famous girl her} naked!" = all covered, a bikini shows about the same...

Fairportfan wrote:"Worst fear".

Obliging little cute thing, isn't she?

And once more I'll drag out the "Song of the South" reference as I point out that Br'er Jaguar done tossed the Tar Baby onto its worst fear, the astral fire thorn bush. (And I'll try to stop now.)

DilyV wrote:The wording in Monica's bubble in the first panel sounds a little off... just the way she says "I facilitated that it was Tar's worst fear"... It might sound a little better if she said "I just facilitated that which was he Tar's worst fear..." making it sound that she actually reflected that fear back in on itself. The first way sounds like she "figured it out" the second, like she actually did something with the knowledge by reflecting it back at the Tar and building on it... basically scaring the Tar to death with it's own fears.

Actually, all that's missing is a period at the end of the first line. With it, it becomes:
"No, I just facilitated that.
It was Tar's worst fear."

Then it works just fine.

Enjoying your thimble/spoon/Hummel collection doesn't make you a hoarder/kleptomaniac.
Enjoying sex doesn't make you a libertine/nymphomaniac. (Or incubus/succubus)
Being organized/detail oriented doesn't make you anal retentive.
Being decisive/goal oriented/proactive doesn't make you a sociopath.

The key word here is "tendencies." It's when those tendencies go way overboard is when things become bad for the person, and those around them. The famous quote is "Absolute power TENDS to corrupt..." People forget the "tends", and it's our tendencies that we shape into our skills and abilities -- they're a big part of who we are.

Soldiers have often been ridiculed for mindless training, brute force, and blind obedience. If you can't fold a handkerchief or dress properly, why let you anywhere near a parachute or complicated machinery - when one mistake will kill somebody? The 20 mile hike with full pack in the rain is so you learn how to react after a miserable, tiring day. You learn how do the job when needed and still act decisively and rationally under fire. Hesitation kills.

Monica did all those things, and did them well. She survived an attack despite wholly disorienting circumstances, selected and focused on the mission, and executed promptly with the strongest counterattack at her disposal while keeping others away and safe.

You don't negotiate with your murderer.

You defend yourself. If it kills them, too bad.

PS - AFAIK, that Bankers are all Sociopaths study was yet another BS publication from the Grinding Our Axe in Public crowd -- the ones who brought you the latest (fill in the blank) Causes Cancer announcement.

PPS - Things may not be completely over. There's still the question of Tar's origin. Do some of Jet's demons have demons?

Lions and cobras are feral creatures, and win (or lose) through combat. But a sociopath isn't a separate species: It requires a social order to exist, by definition. It thrives in the midst of a healthy civilization.

Monica today is explaining that she was lying about enjoying causing the Tar to self-destruct. So... now we'll never know if she's lying or enjoying the facilitation of torture, on her say-so alone.*

What was pissing Bud off when she tore out M's heart, was she was doing this to herself.

So now she understands Phix. Fair enough. Now can she figure out how to be better than Phix? Not sure that being an apex "sociopath of sociopaths" a la Dexter Morgan is "better" in the way Phix meant it. Though, if harnessed well, it might clear more air than it fouls.




*This is a useful thing to know in itself, so I hope her audience in C-space respects the keeping of that knowledge. Sociopaths, even powerful ones, have a harder time operating when they're outed.

HMMM..... And now all we can seem to think of is Mon's state of mind . She's a Titan - has full control of he facilities - and she won't walk around worried about what she did.

Have all of you forgotten Jet ???

Read my earlier post above

TlalocW wrote:Personally, I'd rather have eyes of the hawk, ears of the wolf, strength of the bear, and speed of the puma... but hey, if sociopath, lion, and cobra work...

TlalocW

All I got were the eyes of the Magoo.

OK, who else read "I need the brain of a sociopath, the heart of a lion, the speed of a cobra" and started humming "We're Off to See the Wizard"...?

Re sociopath: As Monica says, "just enough" thereof. It isn't a pathology if it's a minor part of the personality and is under control. Knowing your own demons -- as WS sometimes illustrates -- is the first step toward being able to control them and make them work with you rather than against you.

TheSkulker wrote:

meisdadoo wrote:So mean Monica isn't mean at all, she just let the tar suffer from its own worst fears and consequences of its own actions. . . .

I think I have to disagree with the crowd here. Monica did not just " let the tar suffer from its own worst fears" but took the initiative to bring those fears into play. Specifically she said, "I know how much you like shoving things inside others. Let me return the favor!"

What purpose did that serve? What was the benefit of Tar dying painfully vs just dying? If none that sociopathic behavior label sticks (as she admitted herself). BTW, before someone shouts "touchy feely", I am not suggesting that Monica should have spared Tar, only asking what was gained by the method. Other than a setting possible example for the other demons, I don't see any.

It is possible it was the infliction of its fears on it, and not the astral fire or pole being rammed through it, that killed the Tar. We STILL don't know that the Tar was; perhaps it was unkillable until consumed by its own fears. Until we get some more input on what it was and how it came to be, I'm not sure we should take things at face value.

Bathorys Daughter wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't being a sociopath a bad thing?

"Bad" is somewhat subjective and depends on your point of view, I think, in cases like this.

Overall, I'd tend to agree... sociopathy is "bad" in the context of a civilized society, because a sociopath will ignore the good of other people (and society as a whole) in pursuit of the sociopath's own perceived interests. "It's all about me" is the sociopath's implicit motto.

There are degrees of it, of course, and psychology defines it in term of a cluster of personality characteristics that vary from one person to another. It's been pointed out recently that many prominent entrepeneurs and CEOs of successful businesses measure higher on these personality characteristics than the average person... so, a dash of sociopathic tendency can help you achieve "good" results as our materialistic society often seems to define them. Take it too far and you get a monopolistic power-and-wealth-hungry jet-set tycoon who casually crushes all competition and treats his/her employees like dirt, and we're back to "bad" again.

Now, Monica is suggesting that covey-space (and by extension the whole demon realm, and perhaps most matters of the paranormal) is a "feral realm"... and in that sort of context, the gentler social rules of a caring civilized society already do not apply. In such a society (e.g. what we have been told and shown of the sphinxes) self-interest, power, and violence are the norm. Be a sociopath/lion/cobra and you may survive; or be "humane" and be trod upon (or eaten). That's how Monica now sees the world into which she has been thrust.

We don't know if she's right. We also don't know if she's going to start applying the rules of a sociopath to her purely human interactions... and as a human in a (mostly) humane society I'd definitely call that BAD in a huge way. Monica has more than enough power to be immensely dangerous to human society (as in "lots of people could die") if her human dealings are not constrained by empathy and ethics.

Very good to see that M's concerns were not fully about her own violation by that thing, and also not just what it was doing to Jet...but she was also worried about protecting the demon covey assigned to Jet. That's just plain awesome! Way to worry about the well-being of non-humans that have (in the past...and a different set) caused you mischief and pain, M! Granted, she may have a bit overboard in her execution, but I think that it's rather touching to see she concerned herself with the welfare of demons.

Mark N wrote:

Bathorys Daughter wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't being a sociopath a bad thing?

It is a matter of degrees. She said that she is "just enough of a sociopath" not a total sociopath. A total sociopath can be as close to evil as it can get (Charles Manson anyone), but everyone has a limited amount of being a sociopath (just look at most young children before they are taught to share). But a small amount of sociopathic behavior is needed when you must do the hard jobs (ex: a soldier in a war zone must be able to shoot to stay alive but still care about the safety of his unit). Without that little bit of sociopath that person would not be able to fire and would most likely be dead. So the "Heart of a Lion" reference is the saving part here. It means that she cares about the people around her and is a protective spirit to those around her (at least that is my take.)

Excellent point! I think we've seen enough of M in the past to know that she's capable of remorse and concern for others, which would automatically discredit the idea that she's a total sociopath (I'd think). It's nice to know that she can turn it on when it's needed, such as in situations like these...

Though I'm still curious as all hell about where the Tar came from. Now we may never know. Although, if it was a "human issue", then that implies it was somehow created by humans (be it through interactions with others or Georgette somehow created it within herself)...which is kind of scary when you think about it. All the more reason to figure out where that thing came from so it (or others like it) won't come back.

Yamara wrote:Lions and cobras are feral creatures, and win (or lose) through combat. But a sociopath isn't a separate species: It requires a social order to exist, by definition.

Actually, they aren't feral.

"Feral" means something domesticated that has returned to the wild.

One could argue that a sociopath is a feral human.

Fairportfan wrote:

Yamara wrote:Lions and cobras are feral creatures, and win (or lose) through combat. But a sociopath isn't a separate species: It requires a social order to exist, by definition.

Actually, they aren't feral.

"Feral" means something domesticated that has returned to the wild.

One could argue that a sociopath is a feral human.

That... is an excellent point. Thanks for that clarification.

kingklash wrote: All I got were the eyes of the Magoo.

You've done it again. (c8

Mark N wrote:She said that she is "just enough of a sociopath" not a total sociopath. ... Without that little bit of sociopath that person would not be able to fire and would most likely be dead. So the "Heart of a Lion" reference is the saving part here. It means that she cares about the people around her and is a protective spirit to those around her (at least that is my take.)

So it's more like rock-paper-scissors?

Sociopath catches cobra, cobra bites lion, lion mauls sociopath?

Seriously though, you're right: M's heart is the secret weapon. The Nu Gui and the Tar had holes in their chests; that's significant.


Fairpointfan's correction that feral is more than just wild is also very significant. It means that demons aren't just wild beasts, but are former, or are descendants of, domestic or civilized beings. No wonder Phix is so smug over Tina: it's a redomestication. She'll have her decorating her house with tasteful family portraits and mementos in no time.