Just Tell Me 2014-02-11

[Fairportfan]

There's another Life in Hell with Bongo messing with the Pledge that involves a bunch of Zappa references.

[Grantwhy]

It's interesting what Tina's memory-erase removed and what it left. It removed all memory of who Tina was. It left a memory of demon law. It left the basics of how to get along in society, such as how to talk and how to read and how things work.

Yeah, interesting. At the risk of reading too much into things ...

All memories we know she lost, is of events. And best as we can tell, she lost all memories of events prior to the car crash.

We don't know that Tina 2.0 had lost memories of anything other than events.

random thought / plot twist

The (Tina's) Demons had their memories wiped as punishment.

We, and Tina's Demons (?), believe this is for causing / being involved in the original Tina's death.

Is this the truth? (cue the X-Files music)

The Demons have certainly had their memories wiped. But was it as punishment or to protect a secret and/or person(s)?

Did Tina's Demons cause, or eve have any involvement in her death? Or is that just a cover story?

Yes, this may be the ponderings of a sleep depraved Australian who's not drinking enough coffee, but with Bia's recent interaction with Tina 2.0 I just get the feeling her past may not be what she/the Demons have been told.

-----

and my addition to the Mondegreens

kill the moose, kill the moose then you dance the fandango

[My2Cents]

We might suspect, however, that she lost at least one skill: That of reading shorthand. We don't really know that the demons ever learned it. But it seems they did learn to read English, and retained that skill. Why should reading shorthand be different? Or is this a clue that the shorthand was actually not written by Tina 1.0?

We really don't know much about loss or retention of other skills ... making coffee? running a business? parallel parking? but I'm pretty sure Tina 2.x retained bodily skills, like walking, as well as the skills to talk, read, and write English. (And probably not just English, either. Those demons are "easily trillions of years old"; if they remember English, why should they forget the languages they used before English even existed?)

The problem with shorthand is that it is a concept, not a single language, and more of a code than a cipher. Shorthands have existed long before the English language, with documented versions existing at least as far back as the Roman empire and early Chinese empires (Basically anywhere the scribes were called on to record actual speeches). There are literally hundreds of different formal system. Also, many forms are developed by the user strictly for their own use. Many users of the more formal shorthand versions, that you can take classes in, add personal notations for specialist terms they frequently use.

If Tina 1.0 wanted to keep her diaries secret (there were indications that she was the daughter of a drug lord, so this is probable) it is likely to be a personal system, and may well not be in English in the first place. Cracking Tina’s diaries could require something as simple as a book on American Shorthand, or be difficult enough to need a Rosetta Stone (something with a block of both the shorthand and its translation to supply an initial entry) or to call on the NSA. Tina’s best bet would be to ask Phix about it, as she could direct Tina to any of the formal systems or call on the MIB to get help from the NSA if she felt it was important enough.

[Catawampus]

Y'know, Bia isn't an only child. I wonder how having, say, her sister show up would influence things? (Not counting her semi-cameo a few years back). Or Mama Styx coming up to check on her wayward children?

Let's roll with it. Let's Get Ludicrous!!

Again, already? Dang it, I've only just gotten the aardvark vomit up from the last time!

[TheCollector]

Ok, am I the only one completely pissed off that after that long talk trying to get Tina to realize how important she is to them they all seem more interested in getting plastered then helping her figure out what's going on? Tina's my fav character so this pisses me off quite a bit.

[Catawampus]

Ok, am I the only one completely pissed off that after that long talk trying to get Tina to realize how important she is to them they all seem more interested in getting plastered then helping her figure out what's going on? Tina's my fav character so this pisses me off quite a bit.

I think that more than a few people have expressed displeasure at Tina's treatment.

It remains to be seen, though, whether her friends truly are ignoring her, or whether this is all some means that they've come up with to get her to reach whatever conclusions she needs to reach.

[Dave]

Ok, am I the only one completely pissed off that after that long talk trying to get Tina to realize how important she is to them they all seem more interested in getting plastered then helping her figure out what's going on? Tina's my fav character so this pisses me off quite a bit.

I think that more than a few people have expressed displeasure at Tina's treatment.

It remains to be seen, though, whether her friends truly are ignoring her, or whether this is all some means that they've come up with to get her to reach whatever conclusions she needs to reach.

Yeah, I agree... she deserves a more direct answer than she's gotten. This sorta does smell as if there was some sort of prior agreement by the others Not To Talk About It (at least at first), and one has to wonder why and whaffo?

In any case, we get to stew over the question for the next week before an answer is likely... the gang is going to be on proxy medical leave for a while (for reasons I entirely sympathize with... glad to see you're doing what's really important, Paul, and takin' care of the little guy!)

[Fairportfan]

Ok, am I the only one completely pissed off that after that long talk trying to get Tina to realize how important she is to them they all seem more interested in getting plastered then helping her figure out what's going on? Tina's my fav character so this pisses me off quite a bit.

I think that more than a few people have expressed displeasure at Tina's treatment.

It remains to be seen, though, whether her friends truly are ignoring her, or whether this is all some means that they've come up with to get her to reach whatever conclusions she needs to reach.

Yeah, I agree... she deserves a more direct answer than she's gotten. This sorta does smell as if there was some sort of prior agreement by the others Not To Talk About It (at least at first), and one has to wonder why and whaffo?

In any case, we get to stew over the question for the next week before an answer is likely... the gang is going to be on proxy medical leave for a while (for reasons I entirely sympathize with... glad to see you're doing what's really important, Paul, and takin' care of the little guy!)

Socratic Discourse.

[NOTDilbert]

One of Tina's demons seems to be on the verge of remembering something - she inadvertently said "I've never seen her before", "never interacted with anyone even named Bia".
An amnesiac should never say never.

And one demon says to itselves: "My memory had a restart. I was alive before I can remember." Maybe there's supposed to be a period after the word 'before': "I was alive before. I can remember."

Punishment cancelled by reward for helping Monica and Georgette? Or a forced reboot by Bia for her own agenda?

Or

[Mark N]

We might suspect, however, that she lost at least one skill: That of reading shorthand. We don't really know that the demons ever learned it. But it seems they did learn to read English, and retained that skill. Why should reading shorthand be different? Or is this a clue that the shorthand was actually not written by Tina 1.0?

We really don't know much about loss or retention of other skills ... making coffee? running a business? parallel parking? but I'm pretty sure Tina 2.x retained bodily skills, like walking, as well as the skills to talk, read, and write English. (And probably not just English, either. Those demons are "easily trillions of years old"; if they remember English, why should they forget the languages they used before English even existed?)

The problem with shorthand is that it is a concept, not a single language, and more of a code than a cipher. Shorthands have existed long before the English language, with documented versions existing at least as far back as the Roman empire and early Chinese empires (Basically anywhere the scribes were called on to record actual speeches). There are literally hundreds of different formal system. Also, many forms are developed by the user strictly for their own use. Many users of the more formal shorthand versions, that you can take classes in, add personal notations for specialist terms they frequently use.

If Tina 1.0 wanted to keep her diaries secret (there were indications that she was the daughter of a drug lord, so this is probable) it is likely to be a personal system, and may well not be in English in the first place. Cracking Tina’s diaries could require something as simple as a book on American Shorthand, or be difficult enough to need a Rosetta Stone (something with a block of both the shorthand and its translation to supply an initial entry) or to call on the NSA. Tina’s best bet would be to ask Phix about it, as she could direct Tina to any of the formal systems or call on the MIB to get help from the NSA if she felt it was important enough.

I am wondering now if Tina 1.0 was in on the plan and her death was more of a sacrifice than a death caused by demon interference. That would mean that the memory loss was never a punishment but a tool to protect Tina 2.xx and her development and the cypher to keep anyone from learning the truth until it would be needed later. If I am right then Bia and Phix (and Nudge) were directly involved in her creation (most likely without Phix and Nudge knowing that each other was involved at the time). I am most likely way off in left field but whats to do?

[GlytchMeister]

I always thought it was OK for demons to get their own host killed. Monica's Doubt has tried to get Monica to kill herself on more than one occasion.
If my memory serves me, Demon Law forbids Demons from bringing harm upon people who aren't their host... And that Tina's demons chased Monica into the road, which lead to her heart momentarily stopping, which counted as a Death/Sacrifice according to Tepoz's loopholed safety command line on the Golem Girls. And thus, Monica's "death" is why Tina's Demons were hit in the face with amnesia-merengue pie.

[jwhouk]

No, Demons can not directly cause harm to their hosts. Tina pointed this out to Bud during their first "night out" at the club. There was a side effect, though - time would stop. But she didn't kill Tina 1.0.

[Dave]

No, Demons can not directly cause harm to their hosts. Tina pointed this out to Bud during their first "night out" at the club. There was a side effect, though - time would stop. But she didn't kill Tina 1.0.

I think I disagree with your interpretation. Based on what Tina said in the strip or two before this, the ban on hurting humans applies to people other than the demon's own host. Tina said "The only person I'm allowed to mislead is already dead"... I believe she was referring to Tina 1.0.

From what was said elsewhere, I infer that the ban is intended to keep demons from "ganging up" on humans. The sphinxes did not (for whatever reason) try to completely prevent demons from interacting with (and misleading and sometimes tormenting) humans. A human's Doubt and Pride and Fear can still lead him/her astray, perhaps to the point of murder or suicide. But, the sphinxes did "lay down the law" and limit these torments and temptations by demons to the specific, individual human(s) with which they are associated (or bound to) at any particular time. Demons may not directly torment or harm other humans. This may include a ban on using their power of compulsion to force their host to harm another, or in fact to harm themselves... they can mislead, torment, subtly influence, but not force or compel.

[txmystic]

There's another Life in Hell with Bongo messing with the Pledge that involves a bunch of Zappa references.

Is it this one? It's is one of my favorites:

[Fairportfan]

There's another Life in Hell with Bongo messing with the Pledge that involves a bunch of Zappa references.

Is it this one? It's is one of my favorites:

No - everything in it is a Zappa reference.

[Catawampus]

Socratic Discourse.

Socratic Discombobulation? With soundtrack provided by DJ Acacia.

Hmm, Euryale and some of the others could very well have actually known Socrates personally.

[Fairportfan]

Eurayle did ... she says he was pretty cold, but he warmed up after a good kiss...

[Catawampus]

Eurayle did ... she says he was pretty cold, but he warmed up after a good kiss...

She does have a rather overwhelming personality; I can see how it could create a socially awkward situation for him, and he'd freeze up. Fortunately things calmed down a bit, and they ended up with a lasting platonic relationship.

[txmystic]

There's another Life in Hell with Bongo messing with the Pledge that involves a bunch of Zappa references.

Is it this one? It's is one of my favorites:

No - everything in it is a Zappa reference.

Should have known better from the utter lack of Zappa references

But I found it:

[Dave]

Hey, do you think that BRAP! is related to a certain name dropping?

Yes and it makes me think that her lyrics are directed at getting Tina on the right track.

"She drives May crazy..."

WHilke Bud isn't the manipulator Brandi is (or can be), i think she really prefers more-or-less-subtly pointing people the right direction to rubbing their noses in the correct answer...

"and dogs find things by smell."

Hmmm. Is this a subtle suggestion that Tina ought to ask Tsillah to drop by, with her two pet cerberi Baxter and Boo, so that the two flamehounds can sniff out the traces of Bia's plot?

"... like dough and bells ... "

"Dough" suggests that Becky's baked treats are part of Bia's conspiracy. I'm not sure how, though.