On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Dave » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:19 pm

Bookworm wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:46 am
1) It's a forum. I moved the thread OUT of the Wapsi discussion into the Pub room because it wasn't appropriate for there.
And, as the guy who posted the original message that opened the topic in the Wapsi area, I'd say that this was a very reasonable decision, and I have no problem with you having done so. Whether it was or was not an appropriate message/topic for the Wapsi-specific discussion forum is a judgement call, and you were perfectly entitled to make the final decision on that.

To be clear: I would not have opened a discussion like this in most forums. I opened it here because I felt it resonated strongly with an issue that Paul had already introduced and explored (in a powerful and meaningful-to-me way) within the Wapsi Square canon plot-line... hence, it felt quite "on-topic and in-scope" to me. If Paul hadn't written this sort of thing into Monica and Georgette's back-stories and relationship, current events wouldn't have been relevant to Wapsi Square any more than they would have been to Calvin and Hobbes.

And, for the record... please note that I've never addressed the question of Kalvanaugh himself (what he did, didn't, may, or may not have done) at all, in any of what I've written here. That wasn't my focus. I do not know the truth of what happened in that one case, any more than anyone else here does.

What I was (and am) concerned about, is the larger problem... and my focus was and is on (1) keeping that sort of thing from happening again, and (2) helping the victims of it find healing.
It's sad when people can talk about any issue out there, unless it offends someone else - and people threaten all sorts of actions if they don't get their way. Not just on this issue, there are hundreds I've seen over the years. On some forums, you'll even get banned if you discuss a different forum that might be seen as a 'competitor'.
I agree... and one of the things I respect very strongly about this community and this forum, is the fact that we do have people here of widely varying backgrounds and political beliefs, and still yet manage to maintain a civil and friendly dialog.

If some feel that I've managed to foul that up by raising a sensitive and touchy topic, about which I (and others) do have very strong feelings... well, I'm sorry about that, but I do not apologize. I'd hoped that we all have enough respect for one another to handle it. I still do. If I was wrong, If I misjudged things so badly, then either Bookworm as the "pub owner", or the community as a whole, have the right to ask me to withdraw, and if that happens I will honor the request.
For ShneekeyTheLost - I hope that you'll reconsider leaving (if you see this).
Yes, I agree (and the same goes for everyone else, as well).

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by DinkyInky » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:55 pm

He has a valid reason for being upset, that's all I will say about it.

People these days simply cannot discuss politics in a sane and rational manner. It devolves into two-year-old slap-fights, with nobody listening to the other.
Most forums I still frequent do not allow politics on them for this reason, and I guess I thought it was that way here too, because I hadn't seen the topics in past iterations of this board, and I may very well be mistaken.
From my visits, while occasional newsworthy topics popped up that are debate worthy, 'rabid politics' seemed to not be one that was done here. The occasional gun control/gun training debates were about tops.

The whole #MeToo "culture" that's sprung up lately unfortunately seems less about actually changing issues and helping victims, and more about privilege and being right.
People of colour/other colour like myself(I'm half Asian), and extremely low income folk are frequently steamrolled or shouted over. Happens to me a lot lately. My comments were deleted as "irrelevant".
The last protest/media carp-storm I saw they tried to convince all women to black out their profiles to show support with media silence...
It suppose it would have been fine, but they shut out or ridiculed/trolled anyone who had a difference of opinion, or another way to protest in addition.

The media needs to be held accountable again. Journalistic integrity and standards are a joke these days, which is why everything is playing out like a bad reality show.

One thing: you said nobody was namecalling anyone in one sentence, and then said "you can scream at me and call me all sorts of names" in the next. One cannot do so if it's a ban-able offense. We need more clarification for the future please.

You don't need to keep restating the fact you're a victim. Everyone that is following this post, will have read it, and empathise.
For a lot of us who have had decades to deal with the fallout and pick up the shattered pieces, it tends to feel a wee bit insincere, because so many "experts" in the field while trying, begging, pleading to be heard say they "understand what you're going through", and patronised us repeatedly while not actually helping. Even if it's not actually the case, we sometimes see it thusly. Does that make any sense?

It's like when I was in the hospital near death from a miscarriage, and a male ER Doctor wandered in and told me he knew exactly what I was going through, and then told me off rather aggressively when I responded, "I doubt it sincerely Doc, because you kinda lack the goods".
He then tried to get me booted back to waiting.
I tend to deal with stress and trauma in a very sarcastic manner, often coupled with morbid or warped humour. Was told it's a coping mechanism. I call it my usual Aspie brain.

Shneekey didn't threaten action if he wasn't getting his way, he was stating that this forum no longer feels safe and welcoming, so he was not going to deal with it.


I'm not well at the mo', so my visits/replies will be infrequent.
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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Bookworm » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:45 pm

DinkyInky - Re: namecalling

What I mean is that as an admin (or for future moderators) you have to have somewhat more of a thick skin than the standard poster. You can call _me_ names all you want, and I'm not going to ban you for it. The name-calling I'm referring to is verbally (textually? written?) assaulting another member. It's not really a double standard. It's a slightly different standard based on your position, if you want to call it that.

If you went off on Dave, for example, you'd get a warning for the first time, and a suspension the next. Frankly, I think banning is one of the worst things to do to active contributors. I'd rather put someone on 'time out' for a few days, unless they were egregious offenders.

As for other political topics - if we had more active people, I'd probably make a separate forum sub-group specifically for Politics and Hot Buttons. I would like that to happen; I'd love to see 100-200 active posters on here. It's just that for right now, we have a small enough group of people it's not worth doing it at this time. That, and I'd like to think that on the whole, the posters here are a more thoughtful group than the standard forum trollite. It means that while the arguments are there, they're not really heated.

I mean, if you look at this thread, you'll see that some people think one way, some people think another, and I think all of us agree that the accused behavior is reprehensible and should be investigated when an accusation happens. The conflicts happen in the details of whether one is done, and where it's being done if one is. (Let me know if I put words in anyone's mouth, please.)

I don't think anyone's bothered to mention Trump, because, well, none of the last three presidents have been relevant to the comic, and we've had a small/slow enough forum that there isn't a lot of outside news that makes it into here for discussion - be it political, criminal, or ecological. (or whatever)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by jwhouk » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:32 pm

As my state's Senator is in the middle of all this, I did e-mail him to not vote for Kavanaugh on the message it sends about rape and assault.

Whether he heeds any such messages is probably unlikely, but I have tried.
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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by lake_wrangler » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:57 pm

Alright... I tried keeping away, but I just have to toss my hat in, after all...

The only "message" confirming Kavanaugh would send is that when it's all said and done, and you've been investigated (for the 7th time, no less) by the FBI, and they still find nothing incriminating about you, and you happen to have the qualifications necessary for the job, it's OK for you to do the job.

Let's go back to the job interview aspect of things:

Suppose a man is being interviewed for a job, a job which is similar to what he has been doing for several years already, but is of a much larger scope than what he has done previously. Let's suppose also that this individual has been doing a very good work already, where he currently is. Let's also suppose that other workers in the place where he is being interviewed are worried about him getting the job, because his excellent work ethics would mean that he would do such a good job, that he might just make the other workers look bad in comparison (I'm using this as an example, because the analogy gets too complicated if you start inserting left/right politics into it). Now suppose that those other workers are willing to do anything in order to derail the job interview process. Furthermore, suppose that those other workers manage to round up some people who think they may have something against that guy, although none of it is corroborated, and they wait at the last minute to spring this up in a very public, very messy manner, to try to disrupt the process as much as possible (and try to get the "court of public opinion" on their side).

Now this guy, who has already had to go through six background investigations for his previous work positions, has done nothing wrong (I can tell with certainty, here, because it is my analogy), and none of those investigations have brought up anything incriminating about him.

Should he be disqualified from the job he is applying for, simply because people are accusing him of something terrible, even though a seventh investigation still brings up no proof of wrongdoing? Whether it is eventually proven or not that those other workers purposely concocted this or not, should unproven allegations prevent him from obtaining his post?

Should every hard-working, well qualified man fear for his life, when they have done nothing wrong, if someone, somewhere, is dissatisfied with something about him, and falsely accuse him of some wrongdoing or other, just to prevent him from getting a promotion? Where is the fairness in that? Where is the justice in that?

Sure, investigate the allegations (after all, those are some serious accusations, which must not be taken lightly), and if wrongdoing is proven, prosecute to the full extent of the law. Otherwise, let the man go about his life, and find out how those false accusations actually came about. (I now can call them false accusations, since the investigation has been completed - both in my analogy and in real life - and the accusations have not been corroborated.)

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Dave » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:37 am

lake_wrangler wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:57 pm
Sure, investigate the allegations (after all, those are some serious accusations, which must not be taken lightly), and if wrongdoing is proven, prosecute to the full extent of the law. Otherwise, let the man go about his life, and find out how those false accusations actually came about. (I now can call them false accusations, since the investigation has been completed - both in my analogy and in real life - and the accusations have not been corroborated.)
Two points here:

(1) In this particular case, "prosecute to the full extent of the law" means "not at all", even if the accusations were completely true and had been well corroborated. The statute of limitations on the alleged offense expired many years ago.

(2) To law enforcement and the legal system, there is a big difference between "false accusations" and "accusations not corroborated". "False" means factually false... that the alleged events truly did not occur. "Not corroborated" (or you may see the terms "baseless" or "unsupported" used) means that there is no independent evidence presented to show that the alleged events did occur.

Point 2 is a difficult issue with many sexually-related offenses. By their very nature, they tend to take place where the only witnesses are the attacker and the victim... the attacker chooses the time and place for that very reason. This makes such crimes harder to prosecute than (eg) armed robbery of a business.

An accusation can thus be 100% true, 100% accurate, and also baseless (unsupported and uncorroborated). It isn't false, but isn't provable as true in a court of law (or in the court of public opinion). In cases of that nature, the accused would be legally innocent, but may be factually guilty.

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Wapsi » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm

Okay, this Kavanaugh BS and the people trying to ram him through have the end goals of giving trump the ability to pardon his cronies, and or himself, and to overturn Roe. Why the f*** is the right so damn hellbent on making abortion illegal? What the hell is the conservatives issue that if their imaginary friend tells them abortion or sex for fun is bad, that they have to impose it on everyone else. Separation of church and state, people. Kavanaugh is the drunken frat douchebag that everyone hates except when he helps perpetuate your hateful agenda. I'm sick of every politician and person in position of power who will cheat on the spouse, pay off sex partners to keep quiet, take part in illegal activity, then turn around and legislate against those very acts for people less well off and less connected then themselves.

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Bookworm » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:14 pm

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
Okay, this Kavanaugh BS and the people trying to ram him through have the end goals of giving trump the ability to pardon his cronies, and or himself, and to overturn Roe. Why the f*** is the right so damn hellbent on making abortion illegal? What the hell is the conservatives issue that if their imaginary friend tells them abortion or sex for fun is bad, that they have to impose it on everyone else. Separation of church and state, people. Kavanaugh is the drunken frat douchebag that everyone hates except when he helps perpetuate your hateful agenda. I'm sick of every politician and person in position of power who will cheat on the spouse, pay off sex partners to keep quiet, take part in illegal activity, then turn around and legislate against those very acts for people less well off and less connected then themselves.
It's not a Trump thing. It's not even a Republican thing. Not even a 'white man' thing. It's a "Person in position of power" thing. Male and female. - I mean, John F. Kennedy was a Democrat, and was a worse philanderer than any president since. Women in power have stepped out on men, men in power step out on women. Entitlement.

Those against abortion tend to be, frankly, a form of fanatic. They've decided it's murder, and any sort of fanaticism lends people the power of perseverance. It also tends to cause a weird hypocrisy that the ends justify the means - even murder. There are many that AREN'T that fanatical, of course, but those are the people that aren't up in arms about it, and realize that there are ways to negotiate laws. I live in Texas, land of the 'we must find ways to get rid of legal things that we can't legislate against'.

As for Kavanaugh himself - I don't know what he has or hasn't done. NOBODY really knows, outside of him and the alleged victims. If the previous post is correct, there have been a LOT of investigations against him, and I know there had to be a full Secret Service workup before he was allowed to be nominated. If they haven't found anything, then there's no legitimate way to keep attacking him. It doesn't mean they have to confirm him. They need no actual reason to say "No, we don't want this guy to be a Supreme Court Justice". What little I've watched is just showing me that we need to REALLY start shooting a lot of the media.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by lake_wrangler » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:34 pm

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
Okay, this Kavanaugh BS
Indeed, the way this was turned into a media circus by the democrat senators, instead of behind the scenes, upon receiving news of possible wrongdoing on Kavanaugh's part, asking for an investigation right away so as to respect Dr. Ford's privacy and avoid all the collateral damage (insults, death threats, and so on, to both Kavanaugh's family and to several senators), that really was BS. Instead, they waited at the last minute, to disrupt the process, made a spectacle of the whole thing, and the media jumped on the bandwagon, even admitting to a senator that they are not interested in doing media coverage of people who support Kavanaugh

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
and the people trying to ram him through have the end goals of giving trump the ability to pardon his cronies, and or himself,
Cynicism aside, I'm sure there are people on both sides of the aisle who are guilty of the same thing.

Having said that, is it not possible that he was selected simply because he is a man of integrity, who will uphold the law, rather than invent new rights, when judging cases? Because he will not let party politics influence his decisions, but will judge according to the law, upholding the constitution in the process?

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
and to overturn Roe. Why the f*** is the right so damn hellbent on making abortion illegal?
One could equally ask why the left is so hellbent on making sure there are as few restrictions as possible to the killing of a developing human being... Abortion should be legal, safe and rare? Ha! Only one out of three... It certainly is not safe for the developing baby... and that's without mentioning the link between an abortion during the first pregnancy and the increased chances of later contracting breast cancer. Not to mention, further, all the emotional turmoil and possible eventual guilt at the thought of what they have done (particularly, upon a later pregnancy, when they view an ultrasound and see that it's not just "a few blobs of cells" but a human being...) And it certainly isn't rare...

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
What the hell is the conservatives issue that if their imaginary friend
Ah. I believe you mean God (yes, with a capital G...) May I suggest you check out Lee Strobel's book, The Case for Christ, wherein he details his investigation of the proofs available as to whether Jesus Christ existed, whether he died on a cross and whether he resurrected three days later. He approached this as an investigative reporter for the Chicago tribune, and would not take it easy on the evidence. Yet, at the end, the evidence was enough to turn him around and accept Christ as his savior. All his books are equally as interesting...

My friend, if I may call you that, I assure you that God is anything but imaginary.

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
tells them abortion ... is bad
Well, considering that we see abortion as the killing of an innocent developing human being (and nobody, in this day and age, can deny that it is indeed a developing human being, what with the progress in science, ultrasound technology, etc. It's not just a blob of cells, whether you call it a baby or not), yes, we would think abortion is bad.

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
or sex for fun is bad,
Nowhere in the bible does it say that... It does restrict sex to within the confines of marriage, between a man and a woman, for several reasons which I won't go into here, but nowhere does it say that sex is not to be enjoyed...

Genesis 16:8 says that Isaac was "sporting with Rebekah his wife"... while we don't know exactly what they were doing, they certainly were enjoying themselves, and in such a manner that upon seeing them doing whatever they were doing, Abimelech could only conclude that they were husband and wife, rather than brother and sister, as Isaac had pretended to be (yes, the bible is full of imperfect people...)

Proverbs 5:18 tells us to rejoice with the wife of our youth
Proverbs 5:15-19 wrote: 15 Drink waters out of your own cistern, and running waters out of your own well. 16 Let your fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets. 17 Let them be only your own, and not strangers' with you. 18 Let your fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of your youth. 19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy you at all times; and be you ravished always with her love.
Sounds like fun to me... :D

Go read the Song Of Solomon, in the Bible, and you'll see the expression of people in love who definitely enjoyed being in love and wooing each other accordingly. God is not a killjoy, when it comes to sex.

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
that they have to impose it on everyone else.
Just as people on the left want to impose many things to people who disagree with them...

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
Separation of church and state, people.
Yes indeed. Let's protect religion FROM the government by making sure that the Government does not promote any religion over another. THAT, is all the founding fathers wanted. But they still found moral imperatives in religion which they coded into law (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) One difference between people on the left, and people on the right, is that many (most?) people on the left believe that moral imperatives can change over time, and adapt to a changing society, whereas most people on the right believe those moral imperatives to be unchangeable, regardless of whether many people no longer agree with those imperatives and would like to see them disappear.

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
Kavanaugh is the drunken frat douchebag that everyone hates
Funny, these people would disagree with you on that point...

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
except when he helps perpetuate your hateful agenda.
We're talking opinions, now. The left's agenda seems equally hateful to many people...

Then again, some people on the left are downright BEING hateful, and that's not just in the States... We in Canada have our episodes of people being violent towards peaceful demonstrators:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/im ... my-beliefs
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/new- ... pro-lifers
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/viol ... -people-th


Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
I'm sick of every politician and person in position of power who will cheat on the spouse, pay off sex partners to keep quiet, take part in illegal activity,
Ah. You must be talking about Bill Clinton, right?

Wapsi wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm
then turn around and legislate against those very acts for people less well off and less connected then themselves.
Honestly, I wouldn't know about that.


With that, I salute you. I am leaving shortly on a bicycle trip, and will not have much time to devote to thorough answers of any kind during that time.

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Atomic » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:33 pm

At the bottom of this is "Burden of Proof."

From there we build civilization.

Signing off on this topic.
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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by jwhouk » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:53 pm

What galls me is that the senator from Alaska - a female - only voted "present". I already know about that DINO from West Virginia (aka "The place where centrist Republicans are called Communists").
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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by lake_wrangler » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:21 pm

jwhouk wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:53 pm
What galls me is that the senator from Alaska - a female - only voted "present". I already know about that DINO from West Virginia (aka "The place where centrist Republicans are called Communists").
You do realize she only did that out of respect for the one Republican senator who was attending his daughter's wedding, and would have had to come back if his "yes" vote had been necessary, right? His vote would have "cancelled" hers anyway (as she had originally planned to vote "no"), so rather than force him to return from his daughter's wedding celebration and reception just to vote, that Alaska senator only voted "present", thereby keeping the same balance there would have been had he returned to vote yes and she voted no as originally planned.

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Warrl » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:32 pm

and the people trying to ram him through have the end goals of giving trump the ability to pardon his cronies and himself
I've stayed out of this so far, but I have to comment on this.

Here is the COMPLETE list of what it takes to give Trump the ability to pardon his cronies:

1) He has to first be sworn in as President. (This has been done.)

2) He has to still be President at the time he issues the pardon. (He currently is still President, and has been since the day he was sworn in.)

There is no step 3.

As long as he is President, he is the SOLE arbiter of federal pardons.

The Supreme Court can neither order him to issue one, nor bar him from doing so, nor void a pardon he has issued, nor issue a pardon themselves; nor does a pardon he issues need the approval of even a single Justice. Congress is similarly powerless on the matter.

The notion that giving Trump the ability to issue pardons was at all a concern in this, is nonsense.

As for his cronies, here's the list of all pardons Trump has issued. There are only 7 to date, and I don't spot a single crony among them.

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Alkarii » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:20 am

Let us not forget that an earlier Supreme Court decision would have to be challenged by someone other than the court as unconstitutional. So since it's already been decided, the issue of whether or not legally allowing abortion is in agreement with the constitution is pretty much a dead issue.

So really the concern that they'll just arbitrarily overturn an earlier decision shows a lack of understanding of how the system works. A better way to oppose his confirmation would have been to point out his previous stance on warrantless wiretapping and collection of metadata on citizens. But the Democrats couldn't have brought that up because they were okay with Obama doing it.
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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Warrl » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:25 am

But the Democrats couldn't have brought that up because they were okay with Obama doing it.
Whaddaya mean? They've condemned Trump for continuing Obama's perfectly-acceptable-only-racists-would-criticize policies in several other areas, including immigration.

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Alkarii » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:12 pm

Hmmm... Then maybe they just forgot about it?
There is no such thing as a science experiment gone wrong.

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by lake_wrangler » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:41 pm

Funny, that kind of behavior apparently happens at every level of government, and not just with the big policies... For four years, the opposition party kept criticising the City of Montréal governing party of being cheap and not doing the real job necessary by merely doing a resurfacing job instead of the more in-depth road repairs that the roads could have used. One municipal election later, and the parties switched place, the former opposition party is now the governing party, and they have now seen how it is indeed more cost-efficient to just do the resurfacing of roads for now, for certain roads, than to do the deeper, more expensive repairs right away... :roll:


(Meanwhile, I am indeed still getting ready to leave on my bike trip, but I can still at times take a few minutes to do a quick, no-need-for-research-or-deep-thought post... Just as I may also do so when catching some Wi-Fi while on the trip...)

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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by DinkyInky » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:51 pm

Warrl wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:25 am
But the Democrats couldn't have brought that up because they were okay with Obama doing it.
Whaddaya mean? They've condemned Trump for continuing Obama's perfectly-acceptable-only-racists-would-criticize policies in several other areas, including immigration.
Neither Obama nor the Democrats made the immigration laws of separation. There was no law for separation of families, not during his, the previous Democrat president, nor in 1997, all rumoured to be the origin of that law...they did as any politician does, a wee little side-step.
The only things I could find in days of reading massive documents on it involved unaccompanied children crossing illegally.
Back then, families were rarely separated unless the child was in danger. I'm also not for either party unless they work for the citizens, so it's not just a blind loyalty. If you ask me, there's a helluva lot of folks claiming swamp gas out there that need voting out from all parties.
Yanno how some people have Angels/Devils for a conscience? I have a Dark Elf ShadowKnight and a Half Elf Ranger for mine. The really bad part is when they agree on something.

Aphyon chu kissa whol l'jaed.
--Safyr Drathmir

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Bookworm
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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by Bookworm » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:59 pm

DinkyInky wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:51 pm
I'm also not for either party unless they work for the citizens, so it's not just a blind loyalty. If you ask me, there's a helluva lot of folks claiming swamp gas out there that need voting out from all parties.
We actually need more parties, so that it takes cooperation to do things. The two big parties have simply worked the game so that smaller parties can't really get any of the advantages, such as matching funds. The founding fathers' intent was for a minimum of three parties.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

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lake_wrangler
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Re: On current events... (Hot button topic - Kavanaugh Confirmations)

Post by lake_wrangler » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:35 pm

Canada, being a multi party system, has seen its share of minority governments (always at risk of being defeated if they lose a vote of non-confidence, forcing a new election)as well a majority government which can, if it wants to, run roughshod over everyone and impose its agenda without anyone being able to stop them. While it has happened in provincial elections, I do not recall any time where a federal election led to a coalition government, just so they can be a majority. In provincial elections, a coalition government is only as strong as the amount of common ground there is between the two (or more) parties that joined together to form a majority government.

Sometimes, just the fact that there is more than one party on either the right or the left can "split the vote", so that the party on the other side wins (most likely a minority government), because voters on the multi-party side did not concentrate their vote on only one party (which is called "strategic voting": when you know that neither party on any particular side is likely to have enough votes to win a majority, they will encourage people to not split the vote, but to vote for one party only, on that side, so as to avoid the party on the other side to win...)

In other words, more options, but also more chances of it getting messy...
(Boy, it's hard to explain politics in absolute generic terms... :P )

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