Boxing

[GlytchMeister]

So I've been watching some of Muhammed Ali's fights lately.

I was not prepared.

You see, modern heavyweight boxing is... Well, it seems almost tepid in comparison to "The Rumble In The Jungle" and "The Thrilla In Manila"

What changed? What happened between back then and now where boxing went from an actual violent sport to mostly hugging your opponent?

Some of the newer fights I've seen... they just don't seem as... Real. Like they aren't fighting as hard as they honestly could.

[scantrontb]

Some of the newer fights I've seen... they just don't seem as... Real. Like they aren't fighting as hard as they honestly could.

because they might get HURT... and that will prevent them from fighting again... and that would make the fight sponsors... unhappy... and they wouldn't make their advertising quotas, and that would mean that those sponsors don't suck in the few million that they MIGHT have had that boxer NOT gotten injured and be unable to fight... who cares about the health and well being of that fighter, just the "what have you done for me lately?" attitude for the profit-margin machine...

[GlytchMeister]

Of course it boils down to money...

[Typeminer]

Boxing used to be a lot more mainstream. I remember my grandfather watching boxing matches on TV when I was a little kid. I think they were on every week.

He said it was fun when TV first got popular--you could watch the fight on TV while listening to it on the radio, and it was always more exciting on radio.

[Jabberwonky]

Boxing used to be a lot more mainstream. I remember my grandfather watching boxing matches on TV when I was a little kid. I think they were on every week.

He said it was fun when TV first got popular--you could watch the fight on TV while listening to it on the radio, and it was always more exciting on radio.

Back, many years ago, when I had season tickets for the San Antonio Spurs, I learned to bring a pocket radio to listen to the sports station broadcast on earbuds. Their play by play and color were much better than what came over the P.A. (I actually did the same for tv broadcasts)

[jwhouk]

I only vaguely remember Ali at his height. The "Rope-A-Dope" and his swan song with Spinks.

Ali was always larger-than-life. After him, though, the heavyweight ranks were just not the same. Rocky was more entertaining than the Mike Tyson Follies.

I don't think boxing is long for this world, in the light of MMA being so popular now. The fighters who would have made Friday Night Fights a spectacle are gravitating to that sport instead.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I only vaguely remember Ali at his height. The "Rope-A-Dope" and his swan song with Spinks.

Ali was always larger-than-life. After him, though, the heavyweight ranks were just not the same. Rocky was more entertaining than the Mike Tyson Follies.

I don't think boxing is long for this world, in the light of MMA being so popular now. The fighters who would have made Friday Night Fights a spectacle are gravitating to that sport instead.

MMA has no honor, no respect, and is just one very short step from being Bloodsport. Which is a shame, actually. I've been mixing styles for some twenty plus years now, it could have been a way for the various styles to come together and share knowledge. But MMA is just... cage matches. There's no respect for your opponent, there's no understanding that this is a sparring match. Bones get broken. Concussions happen regularly.

Putting someone in traction does not prove that you are a martial artist. It proves that you are a bully. It brings shame to you, your instructor, and your school.

[GlytchMeister]

Right... With Ali's boxing, I could plainly see the strategy going on. There was complex thought happening. Ali taunted Foreman into a rage to make him keep punching and tire himself out to the point where he couldn't even hold his gloves up.

MMA is people beating the shit outta each other. It's like a human dogfight. They're trying to kill each other. It's not much better than Mayweather's attitude.
(I can't stand Mayweather, by the way)

Yeah, there's strategy, but... Damn.

I watched about five minutes of MMA and I switched back to MythBusters because of this... I was hoping for something more akin to a traditional karate tournament with multiple styles. That's... Not what I got.

[scantrontb]

Right... With Ali's boxing, I could plainly see the strategy going on. There was complex thought happening. Ali taunted Foreman into a rage to make him keep punching and tire himself out to the point where he couldn't even hold his gloves up.

MMA is people beating the shit outta each other. It's like a human dogfight. They're trying to kill each other. It's not much better than Mayweather's attitude.
(I can't stand Mayweather, by the way)

Yeah, there's strategy, but... Damn.

I watched about five minutes of MMA and I switched back to MythBusters because of this... I was hoping for something more akin to a traditional karate tournament with multiple styles. That's... Not what I got.

the only consolation i can give you guys is that we're not QUITE up to "Climbing For Dollars" or "The Running Man" level of broadcast blood sport...
YET...

but give it a few more years and we may be reminiscing about "the Good Ol' Days" when they ONLY gave somebody a concussion, or broke a bone and got a time out for 'unnecessary roughness' ...

[Catawampus]

I've not paid any attention to the MMA stuff, but from what I understand it is supposed to be closer to what would happen in a real fight. Boxing is much more about working within a very tightly restricted set of boundaries; it has less of a wide range of skills, but requires greater skill in a narrower range.

It's sort of like the difference between Olympic fencing and a real swordfight on a battlefield. The Olympic fencer is really good at getting the point of his sword to go where he pokes it under certain conditions. . .but he's likely going to be utterly unprepared when his opponent kicks a rock into his face rather than saluting. That's part of the reason I never got into fencing as a pastime: while I appreciate the skill involved, I always found the artificial constraints to be frustrating. Though it is hilarious to see the reactions when you ask if you can bring in your own sword, and then come in with your claymore and use it foil-style with them in foil matches and they have no idea what to do.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I've not paid any attention to the MMA stuff, but from what I understand it is supposed to be closer to what would happen in a real fight. Boxing is much more about working within a very tightly restricted set of boundaries; it has less of a wide range of skills, but requires greater skill in a narrower range.

No. A real fight with a real martial artist is over and done in about ten seconds, and if the other guy has a weapon of any kind, he'll not only never know what happened, he'll never know anything else ever again. However, that's not the kind of fight that is likely to draw crowds because a) it is over too quick, b) no one but other martial artists will have a clue of what the hell just happened, and c) crippling people has a tendency to dramatically reduce the number of participants.

MMA is a cage-match bloodsport, pure and simple. There is no respect for your opponent, no respect for your school, for your style(s), or anything else. It's like a bastard cross of Boxing and WWF Wrestling with some Van Damme 80's movie thrown in for good measure. Only without the ability to cry 'mat'te'.

It's sort of like the difference between Olympic fencing and a real swordfight on a battlefield. The Olympic fencer is really good at getting the point of his sword to go where he pokes it under certain conditions. . .but he's likely going to be utterly unprepared when his opponent kicks a rock into his face rather than saluting. That's part of the reason I never got into fencing as a pastime: while I appreciate the skill involved, I always found the artificial constraints to be frustrating. Though it is hilarious to see the reactions when you ask if you can bring in your own sword, and then come in with your claymore and use it foil-style with them in foil matches and they have no idea what to do.

No, that's a comparison between traditional TKD and Olympic TKD. Real TKD started off as a military style for the Korean army and is vicious. Olympic TKD is point-playing. In a back alley, the Olympic TKD participant is going to get his ass handed to him by any common back-street brawler. The traditional TKD participant, on the other hand, will hand both of them their heads, unless they are in an olympic style sparring bout, in which case the olympic will out-point him.

The difference being that the traditional TKD student will learn and abide by the Olympic rules if he agrees to the Olympic bout. Because the Traditional TKD student has control, discipline, and respect. An MMA participant, on the other hand, has none of those things.

[Jabberwonky]

I always found the artificial constraints to be frustrating. Though it is hilarious to see the reactions when you ask if you can bring in your own sword, and then come in with your claymore and use it foil-style with them in foil matches and they have no idea what to do.

Some of the most fun I had in my time with the SCA was the 'tavern brawls' with an epee and a beer mug or 'sausage' in your parry hand...

Not so much traditional fencing...

[shadowinthelight]

Sword fighting with a "sausage" in your hand?

*backs away slowly*

[Catawampus]

I've not paid any attention to the MMA stuff, but from what I understand it is supposed to be closer to what would happen in a real fight. Boxing is much more about working within a very tightly restricted set of boundaries; it has less of a wide range of skills, but requires greater skill in a narrower range.

No. A real fight with a real martial artist is over and done in about ten seconds, and if the other guy has a weapon of any kind, he'll not only never know what happened, he'll never know anything else ever again. However, that's not the kind of fight that is likely to draw crowds because a) it is over too quick, b) no one but other martial artists will have a clue of what the hell just happened, and c) crippling people has a tendency to dramatically reduce the number of participants.

Hence why I said "supposed to be" and "closer".

[Jabberwonky]

Sword fighting with a "sausage" in your hand?

*backs away slowly*

You'd be surprised at the advantage of being the crazy one in a brawl can be...

Sausage.gif (248.76 KiB) Viewed 11032 times

It was a 12" section of rattan suitably duct taped to SCA standards for use a parry weapon. The beer mugs were basically an aproximately sized bit of closed cell foam with a handle, duct-taped to standards.

[GlytchMeister]

You'd be surprised at the advantage of being the crazy one in a brawl can be...

I've stopped fights before they ever started by busting out my best evil/insane act. Considering it's a combination of a steriotypical mad scientist, Cicero (from Skyrim), Joker, Psymon (from SSX Tricky), Krieg (from Borderlands 2), and some others I can't think of off the top of my head...

Yeah. It's a doozy. I'm rather proud of it. I can even channel the crazy well enough that it shows up in my eyes.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You'd be surprised at the advantage of being the crazy one in a brawl can be...

I've stopped fights before they ever started by busting out my best evil/insane act. Considering it's a combination of a steriotypical mad scientist, Cicero (from Skyrim), Joker, Psymon (from SSX Tricky), Krieg (from Borderlands 2), and some others I can't think of off the top of my head...

Yeah. It's a doozy. I'm rather proud of it. I can even channel the crazy well enough that it shows up in my eyes.

I can do a very good Heath Leger Joker impression. Complete with the tongue and lip twitch thing. Generally do something like a cross between that and Hannibal when I'm trying to intimidate someone.

"Oh look, someone's feeling their wheaties. You've got a stainless steel piece of crap you call a knife, and a 9mm shoved in a place that would be just awkward if it were to go off where it is. Uh-uh-uh... I wouldn't touch that if I were you. As it is, you're quite safe. Pull a firearm, however, and I can legally rip your throat out and bugger you with it. And wouldn't that be fun? After all it wouldn't be too difficult since your pants are sagging so low. Clearly, someone's not pitching, now are they? So, you can wander on and continue your wretched excuse of 'life', or you can continue poking the lion and hope whatever powers that might be would give you a continue. Pick one, choose now."

[Dave]

I can even channel the crazy well enough that it shows up in my eyes.

This is something that I think none of us here would have ever thought of you, GlytchMeister.

[GlytchMeister]

I can even channel the crazy well enough that it shows up in my eyes.

This is something that I think none of us here would have ever thought of you, GlytchMeister.

Me? Insane? That's... Madness.

[Sgt. Howard]

I can even channel the crazy well enough that it shows up in my eyes.

This is something that I think none of us here would have ever thought of you, GlytchMeister.

Me? Insane? That's... Madness.

... by definition, yes it is....