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Hansontoons
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Hansontoons »

Dave wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:10 pm
Hansontoons wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:06 pm I use tung oil on the walnut shaft walking sticks I make. Five applications and I call it good. It is amazing how the wood grain comes to life when in sunshine. I've never put any shellac over the tung oil since I figure that after a while if the owner of the stick wants to bring back the "shine" after much use, they just do a little light sanding and then apply a couple coats.

I'll have to give a stick a shellacking to see how it works out. I've also made canes for elders, shellac on those might be a good application.

The photo just doesn't do the finish justice.
Do you take commissions? That's lovely work! Turned as two pieces of different orientation - shaft and head?

The times I've used shellac-over-oil it has been for indoor, decorative items... display frames for artworks, turned bowls, and so forth. One of the limitations of tung oil is that (unless you treat it one way or another) you can't get a real gloss finish on the wood - it always has a slightly wrinkled surface and thus a matte appearance.

What I've done amounts to a "French polish" shellac applied over the cured oil - multiple very-thin layers of gloss shellac. It has worked out very nicely.

For a use-item such as those walking sticks I doubt I'd bother - the shellac finish could tend to get scratched up pretty quickly and you'd lose the gloss. Although... maybe go with a shellac gloss on the shaft, and leave the knob or handle as a matte finish. Otherwise, do as you say - leave it matte - it won't lose its appearance quickly and is easy to renew.

I did get a somewhat glossy finish with tung oil once, when I (re)discovered an old trick. if, after you wipe on a coat of it, you put the piece out in hot sunlight for an hour or two, the heat and UV will trigger a quick polymerization and it hardens to a gloss. Pre-polymerized "cooked" tung oil, such as is used in some gunstock oils, does the same thing.
So far, I've only made them as gifts.

Yes, shaft and head are separate. I cut the shaft from a plank, install a screw with 1/4-20 thread on both ends of the shaft. The thread goes into rods supported by bearings. Hand drill spins the shaft while I work it with rasp and belt sander until it is round and tapered. Continue to work with progressively finer grades of sandpaper until I am satisfied with the result. Head gets a threaded insert installed, then rounded on the belt sander and finished up while held in a drill press. The aluminum piece on the bottom end comes from a machine shop- I don't dabble in metal working.

I used to be able to purchase the rubber foot seen in the pics, it came from a company called Tracks, they made a variety of walking stick products. They closed shop years ago, I am able to get other rubber tips but they do not have the nice, wide bottom like the Tracks product.

The strap is nylon material, cover is cotton material sleeve. I hold it together with a grommet that fits over the top thread end.

I made a two-piece version out of oak for packing while traveling by air, used it once- it needs refining.

I found a full-length shot of the finished product. This one had some nice "tiger-stripe" as I called it.

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Sgt. Howard
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Sgt. Howard »

Hansontoons wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:06 pm
Dave wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:58 pm
A somewhat similar process can be done when finishing woods. I've played around a bit and have gotten good results using an old traditional method - several coats of a penetrating-then-drying oil (I use pure tung oil), let it dry and cure well, and then surface-finish with a few thin layers of clear shellac. This combination really seems to bring out the "flame" of the wood's grain. Some pieces will show a pronounced chatoyance ("tiger-eye effect") in the grain, with light and dark moving around as you view the wood from different angles. You just don't get the same richness by slapping on a coat of polyurethane and calling it done.

I use tung oil on the walnut shaft walking sticks I make. Five applications and I call it good. It is amazing how the wood grain comes to life when in sunshine. I've never put any shellac over the tung oil since I figure that after a while if the owner of the stick wants to bring back the "shine" after much use, they just do a little light sanding and then apply a couple coats.

I'll have to give a stick a shellacking to see how it works out. I've also made canes for elders, shellac on those might be a good application.

The photo just doesn't do the finish justice.


IMG_0848.JPG
How hard would it be to use an incredibly straight grained wood where a split down the dead center would be pretty much a given? I am thinking in terms of carving space in the middle and creating a sword cane...
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lake_wrangler
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Re: More Stuff

Post by lake_wrangler »

Who knew squirrel watching could be so entertaining!

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lake_wrangler
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Post by lake_wrangler »

Turns out this guy is just a bundle of laughs... WITH SCIENCE!




Here, he uses science to determine how to win big at carnivals:





He also does fun stuff with watermelons (and, presumably, because it just seems to match his style, though I haven't checked yet, other food stuff as well)...

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lake_wrangler
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Post by lake_wrangler »

Still checking out some of his videos, and ...

WOW!

I am thoroughly impressed by the amount of preparation this guy did, in order to give a super birthday to a kid who had gone through a traumatic cancer (7th known case in the world), while achieving a Guiness World Record at the same time!

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jwhouk
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Post by jwhouk »

Mark, in case you didn’t know, is the Porch Pirate Revenge guy.

Oh, yeah, he’s also a NASA engineer.
"Character is what you are in the dark." - D.L. Moody
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lake_wrangler
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Post by lake_wrangler »

jwhouk wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:05 pm Mark, in case you didn’t know, is the Porch Pirate Revenge guy.
You mean, like this?



I hadn't watched the latest, but I knew of the concept... Nice to see all the additions he made to the concept, over the years...
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Dave
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Dave »

Sgt. Howard wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:19 pm How hard would it be to use an incredibly straight grained wood where a split down the dead center would be pretty much a given? I am thinking in terms of carving space in the middle and creating a sword cane...
From a mechanical and practical-woodworking angle, I'd personally rate it as "possible in theory, but very difficult in practice".

I think you'd find it difficult and expensive to find a piece of wood of the right length, which was strong enough around its outer perimeter to make a cane that you could put weight on, and also had a pith area which was straight enough and long enough to carve out to make a recess for a blade of a useful length. The juvenile wood (the pith and the first few annual growth rings) aren't strong, and the risk of splits or cracks traveling out into the next layers are quite high. It'd be embarrassing to lean on a cane, have it split and crack in the middle, and accidentally skewer one's foot to the floor.

Walking stick and canes made from "natural" wood (e.g. branches and saplings) don't have to be straight, and hence wouldn't work.

As I understand it, canes which are intended to be straight are probably cut from lumber from the tree's heartwood (well outside the pith), and then planed or turned or rasped to shape. This gives you clean, mostly-straight grain to start with (good for strength), and you don't need perfectly-straight grain anyhow (just long enough segments of grain that the side-grain adhesion gives them enough strength to lean on).

Then, there's the issue of keeping the handle on. Since you can't screw the handle into the shaft, you have to depend on the blade to hold the handle in place, and this means that the blade mustn't slip accidentally out of its recess, which probably means that you need some sort of friction blocks or recess-liner to provide the necessary friction. Not easy to do if you're trying to carve or bore a recess out of a pithy area of uncertain size and strength.

All of the practical and woodworking issues aside, there's the "why would you want to do this, given the legal issues" question. Sword canes qualify as "concealed deadly weapons" in most states, and it's usually not legal to carry them outside of private property. There are several states where they're simply illegal to own at all (California being one). Even if one were to use such a weapon in self-defense, one could expect to have to face some nasty questions from the police afterwards (and perhaps even prosecution).

In this modern era, if one needs this sort of self-defense, it seems more practical to me to study cane-fighting, and carry a proper cane or walking stick.
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Post by FreeFlier »

Most of the sword canes and cane guns I knew about used a metal tube for the shaft.

On the legal front, at one time in this state we had Concealed Weapon permits, which had been held to cover any concealed weapon, but the denizens of the marble zoo changed that some years ago and made it a Concealed Pistol permit that didn't allow any other weapon. (At the instigation of the Democratic People's Republic of Seattle, which is the city in the state where you're most likely to be criminally assaulted.)

In my observation, wooden canes intended for actual use are normally one piece of straight-grain wood, steamed and bent to shape. (Ornamental items frequently don't follow that pattern.)

In other ideas, I walk with a cane . . . I'd use it in self-defense: "He attacked me, your honor, so I hit him with my cane." This sounds so much better than "I hit him with a piece of seven-eighths-inch steel tube" . . . The hittee probably won't be able to tell the difference . . . partly because my cane is a piece of seven-eighths-inch (22mm) steel tube inside a piece of one-inch (25mm) steel tube!

Someone I knew in college (a high amputee) sometimes used a cane . . . custom-made from a piece of heavy-gauge steel tube, with a retractable steel spike on the bottom end! The spike was for walking on ice, of course . . . a quick twist, and it retracted into a rubber pad. He was also the first person I saw using traction chains on his shoes . . . he had to watch those, though, since they tended to skate badly on hard floors. (He also had a permit to ride a snowmobile on campus . . . you saw him putting around when it had snowed.) (And amusingly, as I understood it he was a minor Saudi noble.)

--FreeFlier
Last edited by FreeFlier on Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sgt. Howard
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Sgt. Howard »

Dave wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:09 pm
Sgt. Howard wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:19 pm How hard would it be to use an incredibly straight grained wood where a split down the dead center would be pretty much a given? I am thinking in terms of carving space in the middle and creating a sword cane...
From a mechanical and practical-woodworking angle, I'd personally rate it as "possible in theory, but very difficult in practice".

I think you'd find it difficult and expensive to find a piece of wood of the right length, which was strong enough around its outer perimeter to make a cane that you could put weight on, and also had a pith area which was straight enough and long enough to carve out to make a recess for a blade of a useful length. The juvenile wood (the pith and the first few annual growth rings) aren't strong, and the risk of splits or cracks traveling out into the next layers are quite high. It'd be embarrassing to lean on a cane, have it split and crack in the middle, and accidentally skewer one's foot to the floor.

Walking stick and canes made from "natural" wood (e.g. branches and saplings) don't have to be straight, and hence wouldn't work.

As I understand it, canes which are intended to be straight are probably cut from lumber from the tree's heartwood (well outside the pith), and then planed or turned or rasped to shape. This gives you clean, mostly-straight grain to start with (good for strength), and you don't need perfectly-straight grain anyhow (just long enough segments of grain that the side-grain adhesion gives them enough strength to lean on).

Then, there's the issue of keeping the handle on. Since you can't screw the handle into the shaft, you have to depend on the blade to hold the handle in place, and this means that the blade mustn't slip accidentally out of its recess, which probably means that you need some sort of friction blocks or recess-liner to provide the necessary friction. Not easy to do if you're trying to carve or bore a recess out of a pithy area of uncertain size and strength.

All of the practical and woodworking issues aside, there's the "why would you want to do this, given the legal issues" question. Sword canes qualify as "concealed deadly weapons" in most states, and it's usually not legal to carry them outside of private property. There are several states where they're simply illegal to own at all (California being one). Even if one were to use such a weapon in self-defense, one could expect to have to face some nasty questions from the police afterwards (and perhaps even prosecution).

In this modern era, if one needs this sort of self-defense, it seems more practical to me to study cane-fighting, and carry a proper cane or walking stick.

In the past, I would start with an over-size oak dowel, ripsaw it down the middle and mill the slots from there- then glue it back together and lathe it round and tapered before I did the final fittings, stain & varnish. Usually the seam disruption is minimal, very hard to spot (use a light stain for best results). Just trying to see if there's a way to get a perfect match and hide the seam completely- mind you, I carry a 1911 with permit so in truth the sword cane is a bit superfluous, if anything it could be a liability as I want both hands for the pistol (I carry an empty tube- it takes two hands to cock the sucker!)
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Dave
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Dave »

Sgt. Howard wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:21 am In the past, I would start with an over-size oak dowel, ripsaw it down the middle and mill the slots from there- then glue it back together and lathe it round and tapered before I did the final fittings, stain & varnish. Usually the seam disruption is minimal, very hard to spot (use a light stain for best results). Just trying to see if there's a way to get a perfect match and hide the seam completely
Yeah, that's sort of what I was envisioning as the best way to do it, mechanically and practically. The best I can suggest is to use a thin-kerf "valuable hardwood" blade to do the splitting, and then lightly joint the surfaces before milling. That would leave you with flush-flat gluing surfaces with minimal loss of wood and minimal disruption of the grain.

It might be possible to end-bore without splitting it in half first, but getting a boring drill that long to run true down the center would be really tricky.
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Post by FreeFlier »

Dave wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:30 am . . . It might be possible to end-bore without splitting it in half first, but getting a boring drill that long to run true down the center would be really tricky.
I don't think I'd try . . . just try to keep the hole straight, bore it all the way through, probably by drilling it in a lathe, and then center up on the opening at each end and turn the outside to center on the inside.

Then apply a ring on the top to carry the threads joining the body to the grip, and a ferrule to close the bottom and carry a suitable tip. I'd think brass for both, though any of the harder metals should work.

The big issue that I see is that the wood shell is going to be pretty thin unless the cane is pretty clunky.

--FreeFlier
Alkarii
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Post by Alkarii »

Soooo... Little Rock has topped its 7-day snowfall record, in just a couple of days.

And next week, the temp will be in the 50s, so we're probably going to experience some flooding as well.
There is no such thing as a science experiment gone wrong.
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jwhouk
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Post by jwhouk »

I are vaximanated from the COVID :D

2nd dose was this evening. 1st was back on the 22nd of January.
"Character is what you are in the dark." - D.L. Moody
"You should never run from the voices in your head. That's how you give them power." - Jin
FreeFlier
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Post by FreeFlier »

Challenger007 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:12 am . . . I started to prepare for the warm season. I picked up a new grill, bigger and more powerful. Found an interesting model in this review. I prefer Weber grills - they are the best quality for me. Although, I've heard a lot of good things about Broil King and Kamado Joe grills. But these two brands have not been tried in work.
The only grills I've used are a no-name cast iron charcoal grill (40-45 years ago) and three different CharBroil gas units . . . I thought they worked well.

--FreeFlier
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lake_wrangler
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Post by lake_wrangler »

Apparently, some people are very, very sensitive... Must not risk hurting their feelings...


Muppet reruns get offensive content warnings... :roll:
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Atomic
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Post by Atomic »

"We are Siamese if you please,
We are Siamese if you don't please..."

One of the musical lines that's stuck with me after seeing Lady and the Tramp as a kid. Two cats who really didn't give a damn about your opinion, or much else.

But, oopsie! That's offensive stereotyping of Oriental, sorry Asian people, etc etc, blah blah. No, dolt, it about cats being cats.

Flipping snowflakes.
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Sgt. Howard
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Post by Sgt. Howard »

I still say the scene with the crows in "Dumbo" was pure GENIUS!

"Uh HUH! An' I suppose YOU... an' no ELEPHANT... ain't up in no TREE, NEITHER!"
Rule 17 of the Bombay Golf Course- "You shall play the ball where the monkey drops it,"
I speak fluent Limrick-
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lake_wrangler
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Post by lake_wrangler »

Well, apparently I am guilty of racial profiling... :roll:

For daring to call "bullshit" on someone's claim that the fact I was running 10 minutes late at one point (there was an accident, which blocked one street, causing me to take the bus around and make a detour, only to get stuck behind a garbage truck for two blocks) is the reason his bus transfer expired (our transfers are good for 2 hours, so if you are that close to the end of the transfer, you're obviously trying to take a second trip on the same transfer - that's a no-no...) and that he was "going to pay at the subway station"... I tried to explain the discrepancy in his story, but he kept yelling at me. So I told him that he should be ashamed of himself. "I'm not," he replied. I said "Well you should be..." Oh yeah, he was also now late, all my fault, of course...

About five or six stops later, he gets out of the bus... "So much for paying at the subway station," I called out the window... I opened the door to continue talking (in hindsight, I shouldn't have bothered with that, but the light was red...) He went on to say that he was late, but was "not comfortable" staying on my bus (I had not done or said anything else since he sat down), would take a different bus (if he was so late, he should have remained in the bus he was already in, which was already headed to the nearest subway station, instead of getting off and waiting for a different bus to go to a different subway station...), and that what I was doing was racial profiling!

No. I didn't care that he was black, I cared that he had not paid. But people like that don't get it. Just like the latino who called me a racist as he got off the bus, because I caught him getting in through the back without paying, and would not leave until he got out.

It never ceases to amaze me, how people are prompt to call you a racist, or any other epithet, when they don't know you, and have no way of knowing whether you indeed only come down on blacks, latinos, or anything else they blamed you for... The words don't mean anything, anymore, except to bully you into compliance or intimidate you (I'll call your boss, said Mr. Racial Profiling...), or to deflect away from whatever wrongdoing they had just done...
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lake_wrangler
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Post by lake_wrangler »

BTW, while on the subject of racism, cancel culture, and the likes...

Did you know that, supposedly, Dr. Seuss’s children’s literature is rife with “orientalism, anti-blackness, and white supremacy"?

I like the response from the guy running for governor of Virginia for the next election cycle: buy up a bunch of the "offending" books, and give them away for a contribution of $10 to his campaign... :mrgreen:
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