GMC Crate motor Recommendations

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TazManiac
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GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by TazManiac » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:39 pm

Buddy of mine almost got 500K miles on his 1993 C2500HD pick'm-up truck, but it finally gave up the ghost this week, hard.

Need a new, as turn-key as possible Motor to drop in. I'm casting about for a reliable recommendation I can stand behind, this guy is family.

https://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Perfor ... Id=5243244

or better yet, this more complete kit:

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/059/8758K1/10002/-1

Replacement Crate Engine Kit
1987-1995 GM Truck, SUV, Van Small Block Chevy TBI 5.7L
Includes:
Crate Engine
Intake Manifold, Bolts & Gaskets
Distributor & Coil
Spark Plugs & Wires
Exhaust Manifold Gaskets
RTV

I spoke w/ a guy there and we'd be swapping that intake manifold for a water pump, but otherwise a Long Block w/ a Distributor....

Why shouldn't I?

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Just Old Al
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by Just Old Al » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:45 am

While GM engines aren't my thing (except that the Rover V8 started out as a GM design) I can express an opinion - take it for what you will.

Jegs is not a bad company - my son-in-law has funneled large amounts of his disposable income to them for his drag Mustang. The kit you show seems complete and shouldn't be a major problem to drop in.

Were it me though, I might be looking for something with roller tappets rater than the flat tappets. The cutdown of ZDDP in engine oils in the past decade or so means that flat-tappet engines wear faster than they should - which shouldn't be a huge deal for a daily driver but is a thought to bear in mind depending on how far out you're looking for this job to last. Barring the roller tappets, break it in WELL by running it hard the first half-hour or so - don't baby it. RV8s (which share a lot of the components of the Chevy 350) last much longer in the cam and lifters if you thrash 'em at 2500 RPM the first half-hour.

Not terribly useful, I know - but TBH you seem to have a good direction here. Just go with it.
"The Empire was founded on cups of tea, mate, and if you think I am going to war without one you are sadly mistaken."

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TazManiac
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by TazManiac » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:31 pm

Roller Tappets are the number one thng I'd been sad to leave off the list.

There are indeed remanu guys out there that, for about 3.5K for the entry level, will create a really great long block- but it was going to take a few weeks to generate one.

So, just plain vanilla instead.

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GlytchMeister
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by GlytchMeister » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:29 am

Would it be at all possible to get a motor kit with the flat tappets, just to have a power plant in and going, and then get rollers elsewhere, maybe a boneyard or reman, to put in at a later opportunity?

I don’t know what tappets are, so I’m not sure if they can be swapped out. I’m operating on my usual Herr Doktor Frankenstein principles :P
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Just Old Al
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by Just Old Al » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:12 pm

OK, yes, that is a possibility but that's a complete stripdown and reassembly of the top end and front of the engine to do it.

Tappets are the bit that ride on the camshaft - as the lobes of the cam rotate the lifters move up and down in their guides. As they do, the movement is impressed on the pushrods, which push the rocker arms, which rock and make the valves in the head open and close.

To replace the tappets is a case of stripping down the V8 to the long block, replacing the cam and the lifters (as well as any modifications to handle the roller lifters - not sure on this bit as it's not a mod I've done personally) and then put it all back together.

Now you've got me curious....hmmm.

OK, yes there are kits available for it. No, it ain't cheap, and I suspect it's not as well-engineered as it could be when installed as an add-on like that. I also wonder that it might need a special cam to run with the kit...not something I'm familiar with.

Bottom line - run it in properly and use an oil with a decent level of ZDDP and the problem is a non-problem. I've gotten 250K out of a Rover V8 and it didn't fail catastrophically but was just tired when I rebuilt it.
"The Empire was founded on cups of tea, mate, and if you think I am going to war without one you are sadly mistaken."

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Hansontoons
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by Hansontoons » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:47 pm

Just Old Al wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:12 pm
OK, yes, that is a possibility but that's a complete stripdown and reassembly of the top end and front of the engine to do it.

Tappets are the bit that ride on the camshaft - as the lobes of the cam rotate the lifters move up and down in their guides. As they do, the movement is impressed on the pushrods, which push the rocker arms, which rock and make the valves in the head open and close.

To replace the tappets is a case of stripping down the V8 to the long block, replacing the cam and the lifters (as well as any modifications to handle the roller lifters - not sure on this bit as it's not a mod I've done personally) and then put it all back together.

Now you've got me curious....hmmm.

OK, yes there are kits available for it. No, it ain't cheap, and I suspect it's not as well-engineered as it could be when installed as an add-on like that. I also wonder that it might need a special cam to run with the kit...not something I'm familiar with.

Bottom line - run it in properly and use an oil with a decent level of ZDDP and the problem is a non-problem. I've gotten 250K out of a Rover V8 and it didn't fail catastrophically but was just tired when I rebuilt it.
Something for Al- I've been driving by this beast for about a year and a half and I've never seen it move. There's a townhome that I used to walk by and occasionally the garage door was open. Inside is a Willys jeep, don't know what year since I don't know the model details, plus never have seen the owner outside. To me it is a 40's model, not early, perhaps late or post-WW2.

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Just Old Al
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by Just Old Al » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:29 pm

The item in the photograph is lovely!

That is a Series III 109 - long wheelbase 5-door Rover. The luxury model, as she has the double-skinned roof and the vents above. As she has a snorkel distinct possibility shes a Diesel - as well as the fact she's likely ex-mil or fitted as one (the tucked-up nature of the exhaust gives it away). My 109 has the same exhaust - a right bugger to fit but well up in the chassis and protected from the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. I wish I saw things like that in my neighborhood!

Should you see the Willys again note the front fenders. If flat and nothing but simple angles it's likely either an old military or a CJ2ish model from the late 40s. The way to tell for sure is to note the hood height in comparison to the fenders. If it's not much taller (4 inches or so) it's a late 40s or military model. If very tall 8-9 inches) it's a CJ3 later model.
All lovely machines. I had the pleasure of having an MB to play with for a while before my contacts shipped it overseas (I was its stopping point till it got on a truck to the port).
"The Empire was founded on cups of tea, mate, and if you think I am going to war without one you are sadly mistaken."

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TazManiac
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by TazManiac » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:48 am

I agree; installing roller tappets in a Chevy/GMC 305 of the 1990's era would be something you'd do during a rebuild, or in this situation a ReMan (there's a difference).

In this case, and I suspect most, you'd also swap the Cam(s). Best thing about settling for Stock is they are Hydraulic and not old-school mechanical lifters.

Lots of places have remans @ $1500 approx for the bare long block.

Getting the roller tappets would be having a 'built' motor, very bespoke. There are 'Stage One' and up upgraded motors to be had out there.

I'm not discounting the possibility that a later model engine, with such things engineered in from the jump, might have been a groovy Frankenstein option-
but this ain't my truck...

FreeFlier
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by FreeFlier » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:50 am

I thought that vintage came stock with roller followers, though that might be only the 4.3L V6.

--FreeFlier

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lake_wrangler
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by lake_wrangler » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:19 am

Hansontoons wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:47 pm
There's a townhome that I used to walk by and occasionally the garage door was open. Inside is a Willys jeep, don't know what year since I don't know the model details, plus never have seen the owner outside. To me it is a 40's model, not early, perhaps late or post-WW2.
You just reminded me of something...

During my bicycle trip from Montreal to North Carolina, back in 2013, I ran across a few older vehicles in the Adirondack region:

From memory, I'd say mid 70s to mid 80s Ford Crown Victoria station wagon:
Image

Early 70s Ford Bronco
Image

1942 Willys Jeep:
Image


There were a few other older vehicles along the way, mostly trucks. But your comment reminded me of the Jeep.

You can click on the images if you want to read about the bicycle trip...

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TazManiac
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by TazManiac » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:06 pm

FreeFlier wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:50 am
I thought that vintage came stock with roller followers, though that might be only the 4.3L V6.

--FreeFlier
Pretty sure not w/ the 5.7L (350), Throttle Body Injection (TBI), 8 cyl era motors.

The thing has been ordered, drop-shipping itself to the Mechanic's shop for Monday AM,
getting the truck towed over before Noon....

And I have to work at the other end of the Bay right then, :cry:

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Hansontoons
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by Hansontoons » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:33 pm

lake_wrangler wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:19 am
Hansontoons wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:47 pm
There's a townhome that I used to walk by and occasionally the garage door was open. Inside is a Willys jeep, don't know what year since I don't know the model details, plus never have seen the owner outside. To me it is a 40's model, not early, perhaps late or post-WW2.
You just reminded me of something...

During my bicycle trip from Montreal to North Carolina, back in 2013, I ran across a few older vehicles in the Adirondack region:

From memory, I'd say mid 70s to mid 80s Ford Crown Victoria station wagon:
Image

Early 70s Ford Bronco
Image

1942 Willys Jeep:
Image


There were a few other older vehicles along the way, mostly trucks. But your comment reminded me of the Jeep.

You can click on the images if you want to read about the bicycle trip...
Tres bon!

That's why I like traveling backroads on long routes through Texas, you just might be amazed at what you see around the next bend in the road!

And speaking of '42 Jeeps, see my next post...

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Hansontoons
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by Hansontoons » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:39 pm

Look who was outside today! The Jeep I had mentioned to Al!

From the info on the plates, she is a 1942 build, delivered in August. The shot of the rear was taken from my vehicle- I had stopped in the road and gawked in amazement. After arriving home, I took out on foot to go get a closer look and took the front shot. I loitered for several minutes hoping the owner would appear and be willing to visit about the vehicle, but nobody came out so I continued on my walk. (Still missing the J.)

I'll have to continue to include this street on walk route, and to look for the vehicle at local event like Wings Over Houston- a large contingent of re-enactors and period vehicle buffs are alway in attendance.

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Alkarii
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by Alkarii » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:22 am

I'd love to get one of those old Jeeps, but the problem is that they're open on the sides, which can be unpleasant in the cold, or in bad weather. Do they have a means of closing off the sides?
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Dave
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by Dave » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:36 am

Looking at the photo, it appears to me that there is a set of snaps and mount points along the frame at the bottom of the opening on the driver's side. This suggests that a canvas door cover could be used, and fastened there...

... and an image search turns up this:

https://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=82758&country=uk

Image

which is pretty much what I was envisioning. Looks like two snap-on "doors" per side.

I don't know if the extensions are a stock item, or a bespoke modification, but at least it does appear possible. Maybe not very convenient to get in and out, but it could be a lifesaver for longer trips in cold weather.

Without these, the only way to stay warm would be to continually chant the brief but meaningful Car-ma Sutra... "God-damn Army! God-damn Army!"

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TazManiac
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by TazManiac » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:23 am

I’m going to call them standard, but got lost real quick in actual use.

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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by Catawampus » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:42 pm

I expect that the side panels were standard factory-made things issued with the jeeps, but since they would be a bad idea when the shooting started they would probably be left rolled up and stashed under the seats or somewhere most of the time. They'd be used well away from the front, on cold or rainy days.

They remind me of the amphibious car I used to have, where the windows didn't roll down. Instead you just lifted the windows and their frames right off the doors, and then tossed them into the back seat until you wanted to put them on again. Not exactly an easy thing to manage when driving down the highway.

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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by FreeFlier » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:12 pm

TazManiac wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:06 pm
FreeFlier wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:50 am
I thought that vintage came stock with roller followers, though that might be only the 4.3L V6.
Pretty sure not w/ the 5.7L (350), Throttle Body Injection (TBI), 8 cyl era motors. . . .
I have a '92 with the 4.3L six, which is basically the 350/5.7L V8 with two cylinders cut off, and I thought it had roller tappets/followers.
Catawampus wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:42 pm
I expect that the side panels were standard factory-made things issued with the jeeps, but since they would be a bad idea when the shooting started they would probably be left rolled up and stashed under the seats or somewhere most of the time. They'd be used well away from the front, on cold or rainy days.
I believe they were frequently retained in the motor pool, so the troops never saw them except in the manuals.

--FreeFlier

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TazManiac
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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by TazManiac » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:14 am

FreeFlier wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:12 pm
TazManiac wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:06 pm
FreeFlier wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:50 am
I thought that vintage came stock with roller followers, though that might be only the 4.3L V6.
Pretty sure not w/ the 5.7L (350), Throttle Body Injection (TBI), 8 cyl era motors. . . .
I have a '92 with the 4.3L six, which is basically the 350/5.7L V8 with two cylinders cut off, and I thought it had roller tappets/followers.
What kind of Fuel Delivery did that thing have?

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Re: GMC Crate motor Recommendations

Post by FreeFlier » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:09 am

TazManiac wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:14 am
FreeFlier wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:12 pm
TazManiac wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:06 pm
Pretty sure not w/ the 5.7L (350), Throttle Body Injection (TBI), 8 cyl era motors. . . .
I have a '92 with the 4.3L six, which is basically the 350/5.7L V8 with two cylinders cut off, and I thought it had roller tappets/followers.
What kind of Fuel Delivery did that thing have?
2 bbl TBI.

There were two 4.3L V6 in '92 . . . I had the one without the balance shaft.

--FreeFlier

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