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Typeminer
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Typeminer » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:41 am

AnotherFairportfan wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:49 am
FreeFlier wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:38 am
The pun jar is pointedly tapping its foot . . .
--FreeFlier
Nope. I didn't say it here, just linked to it.
'At'sa no good!
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Dave
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Dave » Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:01 pm

Alkarii wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:34 pm
I'll have to set up something so I can get some decent pictures of them so I can show you what I mean, but what I did was take a light blue green paint called Nihilakh Oxide, which has that heavily oxidized copper color, and put that on the wings, then put more of the appropriate shade over that once it had dried.

Turns out that was damn near perfect, because the Nihilakh was too bright, and I used more than I intended. Now it looks like it's actually made of bronze that maybe sat in the bathroom for a few years, getting exposed to shower mist and steam.
Please do post some photos!

I've read (in one of Hughart's wonderful stories of Li Kao and Number Ten Ox) of a classic Chinese painting technique called p'o mo. It involves painting with light-colored ink, then painting over it with darker ink. As the dark ink dries and become thinner, the light ink begins to show through, giving a sense of luminance and depth to the image. Sounds somewhat similar to what you achieved by layering... a subtle effect that paint-on-the-surface can't achieve by itself.

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Hansontoons
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Hansontoons » Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:06 pm

Dave wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:58 pm

A somewhat similar process can be done when finishing woods. I've played around a bit and have gotten good results using an old traditional method - several coats of a penetrating-then-drying oil (I use pure tung oil), let it dry and cure well, and then surface-finish with a few thin layers of clear shellac. This combination really seems to bring out the "flame" of the wood's grain. Some pieces will show a pronounced chatoyance ("tiger-eye effect") in the grain, with light and dark moving around as you view the wood from different angles. You just don't get the same richness by slapping on a coat of polyurethane and calling it done.

I use tung oil on the walnut shaft walking sticks I make. Five applications and I call it good. It is amazing how the wood grain comes to life when in sunshine. I've never put any shellac over the tung oil since I figure that after a while if the owner of the stick wants to bring back the "shine" after much use, they just do a little light sanding and then apply a couple coats.

I'll have to give a stick a shellacking to see how it works out. I've also made canes for elders, shellac on those might be a good application.

The photo just doesn't do the finish justice.

IMG_0848.JPG
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Dave
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Dave » Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:10 pm

Hansontoons wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:06 pm
I use tung oil on the walnut shaft walking sticks I make. Five applications and I call it good. It is amazing how the wood grain comes to life when in sunshine. I've never put any shellac over the tung oil since I figure that after a while if the owner of the stick wants to bring back the "shine" after much use, they just do a little light sanding and then apply a couple coats.

I'll have to give a stick a shellacking to see how it works out. I've also made canes for elders, shellac on those might be a good application.

The photo just doesn't do the finish justice.
Do you take commissions? That's lovely work! Turned as two pieces of different orientation - shaft and head?

The times I've used shellac-over-oil it has been for indoor, decorative items... display frames for artworks, turned bowls, and so forth. One of the limitations of tung oil is that (unless you treat it one way or another) you can't get a real gloss finish on the wood - it always has a slightly wrinkled surface and thus a matte appearance.

What I've done amounts to a "French polish" shellac applied over the cured oil - multiple very-thin layers of gloss shellac. It has worked out very nicely.

For a use-item such as those walking sticks I doubt I'd bother - the shellac finish could tend to get scratched up pretty quickly and you'd lose the gloss. Although... maybe go with a shellac gloss on the shaft, and leave the knob or handle as a matte finish. Otherwise, do as you say - leave it matte - it won't lose its appearance quickly and is easy to renew.

I did get a somewhat glossy finish with tung oil once, when I (re)discovered an old trick. if, after you wipe on a coat of it, you put the piece out in hot sunlight for an hour or two, the heat and UV will trigger a quick polymerization and it hardens to a gloss. Pre-polymerized "cooked" tung oil, such as is used in some gunstock oils, does the same thing.

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Hansontoons
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Hansontoons » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:33 pm

Dave wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:10 pm
Hansontoons wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:06 pm
I use tung oil on the walnut shaft walking sticks I make. Five applications and I call it good. It is amazing how the wood grain comes to life when in sunshine. I've never put any shellac over the tung oil since I figure that after a while if the owner of the stick wants to bring back the "shine" after much use, they just do a little light sanding and then apply a couple coats.

I'll have to give a stick a shellacking to see how it works out. I've also made canes for elders, shellac on those might be a good application.

The photo just doesn't do the finish justice.
Do you take commissions? That's lovely work! Turned as two pieces of different orientation - shaft and head?

The times I've used shellac-over-oil it has been for indoor, decorative items... display frames for artworks, turned bowls, and so forth. One of the limitations of tung oil is that (unless you treat it one way or another) you can't get a real gloss finish on the wood - it always has a slightly wrinkled surface and thus a matte appearance.

What I've done amounts to a "French polish" shellac applied over the cured oil - multiple very-thin layers of gloss shellac. It has worked out very nicely.

For a use-item such as those walking sticks I doubt I'd bother - the shellac finish could tend to get scratched up pretty quickly and you'd lose the gloss. Although... maybe go with a shellac gloss on the shaft, and leave the knob or handle as a matte finish. Otherwise, do as you say - leave it matte - it won't lose its appearance quickly and is easy to renew.

I did get a somewhat glossy finish with tung oil once, when I (re)discovered an old trick. if, after you wipe on a coat of it, you put the piece out in hot sunlight for an hour or two, the heat and UV will trigger a quick polymerization and it hardens to a gloss. Pre-polymerized "cooked" tung oil, such as is used in some gunstock oils, does the same thing.
So far, I've only made them as gifts.

Yes, shaft and head are separate. I cut the shaft from a plank, install a screw with 1/4-20 thread on both ends of the shaft. The thread goes into rods supported by bearings. Hand drill spins the shaft while I work it with rasp and belt sander until it is round and tapered. Continue to work with progressively finer grades of sandpaper until I am satisfied with the result. Head gets a threaded insert installed, then rounded on the belt sander and finished up while held in a drill press. The aluminum piece on the bottom end comes from a machine shop- I don't dabble in metal working.

I used to be able to purchase the rubber foot seen in the pics, it came from a company called Tracks, they made a variety of walking stick products. They closed shop years ago, I am able to get other rubber tips but they do not have the nice, wide bottom like the Tracks product.

The strap is nylon material, cover is cotton material sleeve. I hold it together with a grommet that fits over the top thread end.

I made a two-piece version out of oak for packing while traveling by air, used it once- it needs refining.

I found a full-length shot of the finished product. This one had some nice "tiger-stripe" as I called it.

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Sgt. Howard
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Sgt. Howard » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:19 pm

Hansontoons wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:06 pm
Dave wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:58 pm

A somewhat similar process can be done when finishing woods. I've played around a bit and have gotten good results using an old traditional method - several coats of a penetrating-then-drying oil (I use pure tung oil), let it dry and cure well, and then surface-finish with a few thin layers of clear shellac. This combination really seems to bring out the "flame" of the wood's grain. Some pieces will show a pronounced chatoyance ("tiger-eye effect") in the grain, with light and dark moving around as you view the wood from different angles. You just don't get the same richness by slapping on a coat of polyurethane and calling it done.

I use tung oil on the walnut shaft walking sticks I make. Five applications and I call it good. It is amazing how the wood grain comes to life when in sunshine. I've never put any shellac over the tung oil since I figure that after a while if the owner of the stick wants to bring back the "shine" after much use, they just do a little light sanding and then apply a couple coats.

I'll have to give a stick a shellacking to see how it works out. I've also made canes for elders, shellac on those might be a good application.

The photo just doesn't do the finish justice.


IMG_0848.JPG
How hard would it be to use an incredibly straight grained wood where a split down the dead center would be pretty much a given? I am thinking in terms of carving space in the middle and creating a sword cane...
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Challenger007
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Challenger007 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:31 am

Atomic wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:31 am
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, er, kitchen...

Once upon a time, and apprentice chef in Italy was learning about pasta from a master. The master's kitchen was well appointed, and the small restaurant it served was the first floor of the master's home. From time to time, the apprentice would be tasked to bring meals to the master's wife, upstairs on the 2d floor, and shuttle various items back and forth from the working kitchen to the apartment upstairs.

One warm, slow afternoon, the lunch crowd faded away, and the apprentice was told to take a salad upstairs. As usual, he went up the steps, not bothering to knock, and placed the salad on the table next to the wine and glass already there. He looked around to inform the Mrs. of the meal, but before he could speak, he noticed through an open door the lady of the house taking a nap on her bed - nude - and on her back.

Shocked, he quietly withdrew, and went back to work. He kept silent about the event, for he did not wish to embarrass the lady, nor anger the master chef. Still, the memory kept with him, and as a devout romantic, he had to do something to mark the event.

At last the day came when he had to prove his mastery to the chef, and his challenge was to make a new type of pasta. At once the idea came to him, on how to discretely memorialize the lovely sight he had that day, of a smooth, supple tummy bathed in afternoon sunlight through the window. He decided to celebrate her belly button!

And that's how Tortellini was invented.
A wonderful story! Very attractive, savory and one that emphasizes the uniqueness of the dish. Italian cuisine is full of interesting stories. Perhaps they are fictional, but that makes them no less attractive.

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lake_wrangler
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Re: More Stuff

Post by lake_wrangler » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:33 am

Who knew squirrel watching could be so entertaining!


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lake_wrangler
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Re: More Stuff

Post by lake_wrangler » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:02 pm

Turns out this guy is just a bundle of laughs... WITH SCIENCE!




Here, he uses science to determine how to win big at carnivals:





He also does fun stuff with watermelons (and, presumably, because it just seems to match his style, though I haven't checked yet, other food stuff as well)...


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lake_wrangler
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Re: More Stuff

Post by lake_wrangler » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:30 pm

Still checking out some of his videos, and ...

WOW!

I am thoroughly impressed by the amount of preparation this guy did, in order to give a super birthday to a kid who had gone through a traumatic cancer (7th known case in the world), while achieving a Guiness World Record at the same time!


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jwhouk
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Re: More Stuff

Post by jwhouk » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:05 pm

Mark, in case you didn’t know, is the Porch Pirate Revenge guy.

Oh, yeah, he’s also a NASA engineer.
"Character is what you are in the dark." - D.L. Moody
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lake_wrangler
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Re: More Stuff

Post by lake_wrangler » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:57 am

jwhouk wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:05 pm
Mark, in case you didn’t know, is the Porch Pirate Revenge guy.
You mean, like this?



I hadn't watched the latest, but I knew of the concept... Nice to see all the additions he made to the concept, over the years...

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Dave
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Dave » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:09 pm

Sgt. Howard wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:19 pm
How hard would it be to use an incredibly straight grained wood where a split down the dead center would be pretty much a given? I am thinking in terms of carving space in the middle and creating a sword cane...
From a mechanical and practical-woodworking angle, I'd personally rate it as "possible in theory, but very difficult in practice".

I think you'd find it difficult and expensive to find a piece of wood of the right length, which was strong enough around its outer perimeter to make a cane that you could put weight on, and also had a pith area which was straight enough and long enough to carve out to make a recess for a blade of a useful length. The juvenile wood (the pith and the first few annual growth rings) aren't strong, and the risk of splits or cracks traveling out into the next layers are quite high. It'd be embarrassing to lean on a cane, have it split and crack in the middle, and accidentally skewer one's foot to the floor.

Walking stick and canes made from "natural" wood (e.g. branches and saplings) don't have to be straight, and hence wouldn't work.

As I understand it, canes which are intended to be straight are probably cut from lumber from the tree's heartwood (well outside the pith), and then planed or turned or rasped to shape. This gives you clean, mostly-straight grain to start with (good for strength), and you don't need perfectly-straight grain anyhow (just long enough segments of grain that the side-grain adhesion gives them enough strength to lean on).

Then, there's the issue of keeping the handle on. Since you can't screw the handle into the shaft, you have to depend on the blade to hold the handle in place, and this means that the blade mustn't slip accidentally out of its recess, which probably means that you need some sort of friction blocks or recess-liner to provide the necessary friction. Not easy to do if you're trying to carve or bore a recess out of a pithy area of uncertain size and strength.

All of the practical and woodworking issues aside, there's the "why would you want to do this, given the legal issues" question. Sword canes qualify as "concealed deadly weapons" in most states, and it's usually not legal to carry them outside of private property. There are several states where they're simply illegal to own at all (California being one). Even if one were to use such a weapon in self-defense, one could expect to have to face some nasty questions from the police afterwards (and perhaps even prosecution).

In this modern era, if one needs this sort of self-defense, it seems more practical to me to study cane-fighting, and carry a proper cane or walking stick.

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Re: More Stuff

Post by FreeFlier » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:13 pm

Most of the sword canes and cane guns I knew about used a metal tube for the shaft.

On the legal front, at one time in this state we had Concealed Weapon permits, which had been held to cover any concealed weapon, but the denizens of the marble zoo changed that some years ago and made it a Concealed Pistol permit that didn't allow any other weapon. (At the instigation of the Democratic People's Republic of Seattle, which is the city in the state where you're most likely to be criminally assaulted.)

In my observation, wooden canes intended for actual use are normally one piece of straight-grain wood, steamed and bent to shape. (Ornamental items frequently don't follow that pattern.)

In other ideas, I walk with a cane . . . I'd use it in self-defense: "He attacked me, your honor, so I hit him with my cane." This sounds so much better than "I hit him with a piece of seven-eighths-inch steel tube" . . . The hittee probably won't be able to tell the difference . . . partly because my cane is a piece of seven-eighths-inch (22mm) steel tube inside a piece of one-inch (25mm) steel tube!

Someone I knew in college (a high amputee) sometimes used a cane . . . custom-made from a piece of heavy-gauge steel tube, with a retractable steel spike on the bottom end! The spike was for walking on ice, of course . . . a quick twist, and it retracted into a rubber pad. He was also the first person I saw using traction chains on his shoes . . . he had to watch those, though, since they tended to skate badly on hard floors. (He also had a permit to ride a snowmobile on campus . . . you saw him putting around when it had snowed.) (And amusingly, as I understood it he was a minor Saudi noble.)

--FreeFlier
Last edited by FreeFlier on Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sgt. Howard
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Sgt. Howard » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:21 am

Dave wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:09 pm
Sgt. Howard wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:19 pm
How hard would it be to use an incredibly straight grained wood where a split down the dead center would be pretty much a given? I am thinking in terms of carving space in the middle and creating a sword cane...
From a mechanical and practical-woodworking angle, I'd personally rate it as "possible in theory, but very difficult in practice".

I think you'd find it difficult and expensive to find a piece of wood of the right length, which was strong enough around its outer perimeter to make a cane that you could put weight on, and also had a pith area which was straight enough and long enough to carve out to make a recess for a blade of a useful length. The juvenile wood (the pith and the first few annual growth rings) aren't strong, and the risk of splits or cracks traveling out into the next layers are quite high. It'd be embarrassing to lean on a cane, have it split and crack in the middle, and accidentally skewer one's foot to the floor.

Walking stick and canes made from "natural" wood (e.g. branches and saplings) don't have to be straight, and hence wouldn't work.

As I understand it, canes which are intended to be straight are probably cut from lumber from the tree's heartwood (well outside the pith), and then planed or turned or rasped to shape. This gives you clean, mostly-straight grain to start with (good for strength), and you don't need perfectly-straight grain anyhow (just long enough segments of grain that the side-grain adhesion gives them enough strength to lean on).

Then, there's the issue of keeping the handle on. Since you can't screw the handle into the shaft, you have to depend on the blade to hold the handle in place, and this means that the blade mustn't slip accidentally out of its recess, which probably means that you need some sort of friction blocks or recess-liner to provide the necessary friction. Not easy to do if you're trying to carve or bore a recess out of a pithy area of uncertain size and strength.

All of the practical and woodworking issues aside, there's the "why would you want to do this, given the legal issues" question. Sword canes qualify as "concealed deadly weapons" in most states, and it's usually not legal to carry them outside of private property. There are several states where they're simply illegal to own at all (California being one). Even if one were to use such a weapon in self-defense, one could expect to have to face some nasty questions from the police afterwards (and perhaps even prosecution).

In this modern era, if one needs this sort of self-defense, it seems more practical to me to study cane-fighting, and carry a proper cane or walking stick.

In the past, I would start with an over-size oak dowel, ripsaw it down the middle and mill the slots from there- then glue it back together and lathe it round and tapered before I did the final fittings, stain & varnish. Usually the seam disruption is minimal, very hard to spot (use a light stain for best results). Just trying to see if there's a way to get a perfect match and hide the seam completely- mind you, I carry a 1911 with permit so in truth the sword cane is a bit superfluous, if anything it could be a liability as I want both hands for the pistol (I carry an empty tube- it takes two hands to cock the sucker!)
Rule 17 of the Bombay Golf Course- "You shall play the ball where the monkey drops it,"
I speak fluent Limrick-
the Old Sgt.

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Dave
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Dave » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:30 am

Sgt. Howard wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:21 am
In the past, I would start with an over-size oak dowel, ripsaw it down the middle and mill the slots from there- then glue it back together and lathe it round and tapered before I did the final fittings, stain & varnish. Usually the seam disruption is minimal, very hard to spot (use a light stain for best results). Just trying to see if there's a way to get a perfect match and hide the seam completely
Yeah, that's sort of what I was envisioning as the best way to do it, mechanically and practically. The best I can suggest is to use a thin-kerf "valuable hardwood" blade to do the splitting, and then lightly joint the surfaces before milling. That would leave you with flush-flat gluing surfaces with minimal loss of wood and minimal disruption of the grain.

It might be possible to end-bore without splitting it in half first, but getting a boring drill that long to run true down the center would be really tricky.

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Re: More Stuff

Post by FreeFlier » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:37 am

Dave wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:30 am
. . . It might be possible to end-bore without splitting it in half first, but getting a boring drill that long to run true down the center would be really tricky.
I don't think I'd try . . . just try to keep the hole straight, bore it all the way through, probably by drilling it in a lathe, and then center up on the opening at each end and turn the outside to center on the inside.

Then apply a ring on the top to carry the threads joining the body to the grip, and a ferrule to close the bottom and carry a suitable tip. I'd think brass for both, though any of the harder metals should work.

The big issue that I see is that the wood shell is going to be pretty thin unless the cane is pretty clunky.

--FreeFlier

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Re: More Stuff

Post by Alkarii » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:31 pm

Soooo... Little Rock has topped its 7-day snowfall record, in just a couple of days.

And next week, the temp will be in the 50s, so we're probably going to experience some flooding as well.
There is no such thing as a science experiment gone wrong.

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Re: More Stuff

Post by jwhouk » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:59 pm

I are vaximanated from the COVID :D

2nd dose was this evening. 1st was back on the 22nd of January.
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Challenger007
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Re: More Stuff

Post by Challenger007 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:12 am

I haven’t received my dose of vaccine yet, I try not to panic and believe in the best. I started to prepare for the warm season. I picked up a new grill, bigger and more powerful. Found an interesting model in this review. I prefer Weber grills - they are the best quality for me. Although, I've heard a lot of good things about Broil King and Kamado Joe grills. But these two brands have not been tried in work.

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